| Author |
Message |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 789
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 2:06 pm: | |
email me and I can forward a complete spec sheet.
I had mine machined from M15 1.5 pitch allen head bolts. There is no source to purchase off the shelf plugs that I know of.
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Erik R. K. Jonsson (Gamester)
Member
Username: Gamester
Post Number: 372
Registered: 11-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:15 am: | |
Could you post the source for the modified inserts? I installed plugs from Norwoods and have the chirping... I knew that was what caused it but didn't notice this thread till now. I was going to have some stock machined to eliminate the chirp, but since you know where to get them...
Thanks
Erik |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 788
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 8:55 pm: | |
Uhhhhhhhhh Mark, read my last posting. Its fixed. |
d mark blanchard (Dmblanchaolcom)
New member
Username: Dmblanchaolcom
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 8:02 pm: | |
Well Terry, are you confused yet? 15 possible fixes and they're all over the board. I'm voting with John Rivee and Mike Charmness. It's in the exhaust. My '82 does the same thing and my ferrari mechanic said it's in the exhaust. You can bore out those little tube inserts mike is talking about, but my mechanic said why bother. The chirp is aggravating though. |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 109
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 4:19 pm: | |
Sorry, it's what smart arses are known as here in OZ
F(_)CK IM GOOD, JUST ASK ME! |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 264
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 7:28 am: | |
Phil, FIGJAM?.................................................. |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 103
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 3:03 am: | |
I guess this is a "FIGJAM" moment.
Glad to be of service |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 771
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 7:24 pm: | |
Well, it was the air injection manifold plugs. I had a set of the proper plugs machined with the little extension on the end to eliminate the gap in the head from the injection nozzle not being there. Once installed.... presto! no more chirping. So, if our replacing the air injection nozzles on an early 308, you MUST use the correct machined plugs or it will definitely "chirp". |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 254
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 9:45 pm: | |
Terry,
Trust me, it's in the exhaust
Period! |
John Ottino (Tables)
New member
Username: Tables
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 8:51 pm: | |
A friend of mine had the same problem with his 308.He found that the a/c hoses were rubbing the air inlet duck for the carbs.Worth a look. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 698
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:39 am: | |
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh Errrrrrrrrrr sell it?
My plan was to sell it since I bought the Daytona. However, now that I am driving it again Im having second thoughts. The suspension and wheel/tire updates have totally transformed how it drives. Its so much more responsive and handles so much better.... and the tubi sounds good....
I'll probably still sell it. However I still need to get the AC charged, get it aligned and corner balanced, tweak the carbs perhaps a bit more, fix this silly chirping thing and then "test drive" it a bit to make sure everything is right.
The whistling idea relative to the air injection plugs sounds intriging. Could be that. I have another set of the bolts and the specs to machine properly. The ones installed were just cut to length to match the threaded portion of the injection nozzles they did not have the nub on the end to fill that hole. Thus, its possible that while there is no exhaust leak it is causing a whistle sound? Anyone have any links to info on this phenomenon?
Airborne Coatings in Charlotte NC did my headers. They came out great!. They turned them around in 2 days. I paid $550 but that included not only ceramic coating the inside and outside of the headers in shiny silver, but powder coating red teh cam and belt covers and black powder coating the coolant overflow tank. Cutting the heat shields off is a •••••, lots of nasty asbestos crap inside there. I can tell a noticable difference in engine bay heat. The ceramic coated headers not only look great, but they radiate far less heat.
Don: what exhaust check valve? My car has headers that dump into a Tubi. All emissions stuff is in a box in my basement. The check valve that was associated with the air injection manifolds is of coarse removed. Is there some other type of valve Im missing? I cant think of where anything else could be, but who knows?
Thanks for the help guys! Im going to get the proper machined air injection plugs made and install them while retorqueing the headers. I dread doing the front bank.... |
Sean F (Agracer)
Member
Username: Agracer
Post Number: 314
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 8:15 am: | |
Terry,
We e-mailed back and forth about your car about 6-months back. You were "thinking" of selling it then but still had some work to do.
Do you still want to sell it? and how much?
[email protected]
thanks
Sean |
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
Junior Member
Username: Stacy
Post Number: 72
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 4:52 pm: | |
I have heard that when you plug the head where the air injectors went that you have to use a bolt that is machined to fill the small hole that leads into the exhaust port or else you will get whistling. I think this is what Phil is talking about. There are a couple threads in the archives that go over the design of the plugs you need to use.
PS I am also thinking about tearing the heat shields off my headers and having them ceramic coated. How did yours turn out? Who did them for you?
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"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 6232
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 12:10 pm: | |
Terry,
I had the SAME issue with my car.
Ferrari indicted that it was an exhaust check valve opening and closing on cold starts. It is exaggerated by rich carbs. Detune each carb by 1/2 turn
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Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member
Username: Cmparrf40
Post Number: 672
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 11:50 am: | |
This is a stretch, but my F40 does this and it is the plastic belts Ferrari uses. It sounds like a snap or a chirp.
Drives me crazy, but once the belt wears in, it goes away... |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 818
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 11:15 am: | |
Terry, I'll tell you another possibility... and it took me about a year to finally locate it on my 308QV. It turned out that *one* of four the muffler tailpipes had burned out the insulation under its baffling. If you look inside your tailpipes, you'll see a metal mesh, which is that baffling which can make that "chirp" noise as air runs through it if there's no insulation under it. If you have someone bring the car off idle to when you get the "chirp", and then put your hand (or a piece of wood) to block one of the tailpipes one at a time, if that's it the chirp will go away when that one pipe is covered. Of course, if your noise is really coming from your headers, then you have a different problem, but sometimes it's difficult to track down.
The simple solution is to put in a rolled piece of stainless steel as an insert into that tailpipe. I got mine from a Ferrari dealer who was aware of the problem occuring on 308's and 328's. I've got extras, if you need one.
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Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 696
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 10:50 am: | |
Jay.... could be. I will give that a try.
Andrew, I doubt the water pump. Its only 3 years old, and using the stethoscope it gives no abnormal bearing noise. Also putting your head as close to it as possible while running, the noise sounds like its coming from the region of the headers not the pump.
Phil.... you could be onto something. I used allen headed bolts cut to the correct length and with the correct thread pattern. They shouldnt allow any leaks. However, who knows? I will retorque these as well.
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Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 34
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 6:46 am: | |
I've got a hunch it's where you've blanked off the air injection pipe holes.
It's possible the air is whistling as it passes the repair, a bit like when you blow across the top of a bottle, but on a small scale!
If it is the air pipes, you'll need to remove the vacuum effect by filling it up with weld or plugs.
If it only does it under load, get someone to carefully ride the clutch with the wheels off the ground, handbrake on and in gear....big danger though so BE CAREFUL!!
It could also be deep inside the exhaust manifolds, where all the pipes meet...use a stethoscope or piece of hose to track the sound down.
If you use hose, put a bit of copper plumbing pipe or similar up the end of it to stop burning when you touch the hot bits it! |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 184
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 10:39 pm: | |
Terry... Sounds like a dying water pump.
Best regards,
Andy |
Jay Morris (Jm3)
New member
Username: Jm3
Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 9:59 pm: | |
I bet it's a header leak. Retorque all the little bolts at the head. Try to do it when the headers are as warm as you can stand it, even wear gloves. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 695
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 9:40 pm: | |
I finally got my '77 308 GTB back on the road. I just did a ton of service to it. New cam belts, A/C lines, cam seals, all topend gaskets, carb rebuild and rejet, replaced the A/C compressor with a Sanden rotary unit, removed headers then cut away the heat shields and had the pipes ceramic coated, had the cam covers and belt covers powder coated red, went nuts detailing everything, replaced all the fuel lines, polished the tubi, replaced all exhaust gaskets and donuts, removed all the heat pumps and air injection manifolds and all emissions plumbing, plugged the holes in the heads where the air injection nozzles go with allen bolts special ordered to size, adjusted timing on the millermon distributor and tuned the car.
It looks great.... and run VERY strong. Its running now by far the best it has since I bought it. I also replaced the shocks/springs with Italian Design racing units and upgraded to 16" repo QV wheels with 245/24 and 225/50 Kumho tires. I also installed an 18mm GTS rear bar. It handles great now!
The only problem is its making a wierd "chirping" noise. Hard to describe.... not a rumble, not a scraping, not like a belt squeal... its Chirping. It only does it under acceleration and only just coming off idle. Once over 1500rpm its gone. It also seems to fade once warm, but at idle when the gas is applied its still there.
I ran the car on jack stands with the wheels and wheel well covers removed. I crawled all around and under it and used the stethoscope. Im conviced its not cam belt noise and its not tensioner or drive bearing squeal. It also does not appear to be the accessory or AC belts. I stuck my head up as close in the wheel wells without getting burned or losing my hair... and its sure seems as it its coming from the exhaust headers. I see no evidence of any exhaust leaks and the timing was easy to set (before all this I had several small exhaust leaks at the air injection manifolds and they made it impossible to really get the timing exact).
It does seem that the more I drive it, the less I hear this sound but its not gone completely and I want to end it. Its not constant, but does pulse some. chirp chirp chirp chirp.... faster with revs and then gone by 1500rpm. It goes up in pitch so at higher revs it cannot be heard. I see nothing rubbing anywhere, smell no exaust leaks or other abnormal smells.
Anyone got a clue? It sounds as if its coming from around the heads and is coming from both... and is centered around the exhaust headers?? Could something related to removing the air injection manifolds or heat shielding on the headers be causing this?
Thanks for the help. I'll post some pics of the engine bay later. |