| Author | Message | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1174 Registered: 10-2002 |
Kevin, you have mail. | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 326 Registered: 7-2002 |
Byron Rod is from a 355 btw you have mail re Starter problem which may be connected to this | ||
| Kevin Paul (Klfpaul)
New member Username: Klfpaul Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2003 |
Byron, If you need any extra help I'm available. I've also done quite a bit of wrenching and diagnosing in my day. Not on Ferrari's mind you, but most everything else. I also have most tools, (ratchtets, mechanic's ears, jackstands, etc.) if you should need any. I hate those potential rod knock noises every time I hear them. One other thing it might be is that I know you had your gearbox apart, and sometimes a loose or cracked flywheel can cause a "rod knock like" noise, but can be diagnosed by listening to the noise location. One general indicator of rod knock is to slightly rev the motor from under the engine cover to ~1500 - 2000 rpm and abruptly let off the throttle. If if the noise stops briefly then knocks or taps quickly on the slowdown, it's probably not exhaust or flywheel related. The low oil pressure could be due to "cooked" or overheated oil if you ran the car hard, plus was it a hot day? Do you use synthetic? Also, if you pull a plug wire make sure to hookup a spark tester or extra spark plug to avoid frying the electronic ignition, i.e. don't let the wire arc to ground (i.e. frame, etc.) Let me know on the help issue, and hopefully it is something minor. -Kevin | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1173 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ok Ok... done deal... I'll pick one up this weekend, along with some additional tools and stuff. I can't keep borrowing yours billybob. Man, I hope it's exhaust related... If it's a bad EGR valve, then Mark's got me covered there... if it's a rod bearing... whoa... if it's exhaust or a/c compressor bolt related... we'll find it. Billybob - you free this weekend? I'll probably be spending my day on saturday working on the car... if you wanna wrench a bit, feel free to drop by my house. Gene might come out as well. | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 329 Registered: 8-2002 |
B, On hubert's idea of the slapping belt thing do you remember you only have 2 bolts on your A/C compressor? Maybe one's loose? I told you to fix that...you need the stethoscope to find the noise locatrion. | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 328 Registered: 8-2002 |
I heard the noise while in my car with my helmet on and Byrons screaming to me. It sounded like exhaust but not necessarily exhaust leak. I like phils idea except the exhaust repair is cheap. I can weld anything and it costs dirt. I'm still betting exhaust. We should be able to find it easy enough. "B" you need to get a mechaincs stethescope on that car and find the location first and do less guessing. Hubert is a smart guy and knows his cars but we were all really hot yesterday and tired. The car was hot and tired. The sun cooks everyones brains and beyond saying "we have an engine problem", I think the investigation should be done with clear head and full stomach. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1171 Registered: 10-2002 |
oil levels were high... at max, bordering overfilled. I didn't check the oil directly after my runs... but just before, my oil level was at the max line. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1286 Registered: 1-2002 |
byron- what can happen if you run the motor low on oil , is that the journals get starved, the bearings overheat (since oil splashes on them and cools them), and the bearing fails. when the bearing fails, it seizes, when the bearing siezes, the motion of the rod halts, abruptly, and the rod breaks... your dry sump should have kept the engine lubbed good even under heavy load, but if you ran it LOW on oil, then even a dry sump can't help. so, oil LEVEL is more important then PRESSURE. how was the oil level??? | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1170 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hubert, since I can't start the car anyways - the engine "on" time is severely limited! I can certainly try the spark plug test -- but what exactly am I looking for? Just louder sound when I take the spark plug out? Hmmmm... I will need someone to really walk me through this one - otherwise, it's off to the shop she goes. Thanks for all of your input so far - it really helps me to put things into perspective. Ok, so the oil pressure only dropped yesterday, Hubert. It seems low to be running just above the first 1/4 mark. The knocking is more of the sound I heard - but no loss of power. The car still drives (obviously I won't do it anymore until this is fixed!!!)... sound like it's possibly a belt slapping against the housing (i.e. tensioner is loose?) b/c I can hear the noise from inside my car... but from outside, there's also a fairly consistent knocking and clicking. I think I'll need to get it started and just run a few more tests... | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1285 Registered: 1-2002 |
paul: you're right about the spark plug idea. what you want to do is get the engine to 2000rpm, pull each plug one at a time. the faulty rod will the LOUDER in this case. mark: it sounded like rod knock, but the car still revved smoothly. which is why i didn't think in that direction. also, the car didn't run any hotter (at least when i asked byron about it) than normal. the drop in pressure could have been possible, but byron says his oil level was topped off all day. it did sound like rod knock, but i hoped it was just an auxillary belt that had snapped. byron: try the spark plug test. the bearing (if that's the problem) may not be dead, but going. so limit engine "on" time. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1169 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mark, that's not very reassuring!  Man... what car was that from? | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 325 Registered: 7-2002 |
Byron At least you 've caught it before it does this  | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1168 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ok... sounds like I have to do some more tests to see... problem is... I can't start my car! (see other post)... ok...maybe it's time to pay for that tow to get it into a shop. Mark - hold off on shipping the part just yet... this rod knock theory seems very possible... and the low oil pressure did come about rather suddenly. I think I need to drain the oil and do some tests. *sigh* | ||
| Paul Hill (348paul)
Member Username: 348paul Post Number: 380 Registered: 12-2002 |
With regard to Marks suggestion of a rod end - I am thinking out loud on the suggestion below and would prefer if someone with a bit more f-car experience comment on this before it is tried! (Only if you are sure the timing belt is OK!!) With the engine ticking over remove and replace each of the spark plug leads one at a time - listen to see if the noise goes away (or is quieter) on one particular cylinder. This will cause any suspect rod not to be under the full force of combustion and theoretically the noise should be less. Paul | ||
| Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
New member Username: Rscapri2600 Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2002 |
I'd explore the rod bearing possibility a bit more. I actually have a racecar in my driveway which has developed a rod knock. I can start it up now and no trace of knock, whatsoever. Oil pressure is good too. Cold oil is thick and cushions the bearing. I know it is a rod because I just replaced the rod bearing prior to event as it had pounded out of round a bit. You can probably get your motor oil tested for metal contaminants which should help eliminate it as a possibility. Good luck 85 Mondial | ||
| Paul Hill (348paul)
Member Username: 348paul Post Number: 379 Registered: 12-2002 |
Byron, I was going by what Hubert was saying: .....it sounded most like a broken belt whipping around, and slapping against something...... Does anyone know if you can remove the belt covers with the engine in the car? - I know it�s tight round there from doing a compressor change myself. I think a bit of further investigation is needed! Good luck Paul | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 324 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hubert A rod bearing would explain the low Oil Pressure! Byron Received your mails, I'll get in touch with a Courier tomorrow | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1167 Registered: 10-2002 |
Paul, you're scaring me. The car had the belts replaced last june (2002)... don't know if the previous owner had the tensioners replaced, though....ack! An engine out?!!! I can't deal with that right now. This stinks. | ||
| Paul Hill (348paul)
Member Username: 348paul Post Number: 378 Registered: 12-2002 |
Slack timing belts hitting against the covers? - Sounds like the tensioner bearings have gone south. IMHO don�t even start her up again if this is the case! Paul | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1284 Registered: 1-2002 |
jrv: i heard it, and it wasn't an exh. leak. sounded to me, like rod knock, but the car wasn't experiencing any tell tale signs; it sounded most like a broken belt whipping around, and slapping against something. i don't think byron spun a rod bearing, but it had a similar clack... clack ... clack | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1166 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mark, you have mail. Thanks, B. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1163 Registered: 10-2002 |
Phil, A cracked exhaust manifold? Hmm... that is entirely possible, but is hard to check for me... The sound is like an exhaust leak, so I'm thinking it might be what you guys are describing, with the EGR valve. JRV - why do they go bad? And when they do, what is a clear indication of this? Is this an easy part to swap out? Mark, thank you for being so generous. I may take you up on your offer. Please email me your contact info: [email protected] (I am in California) Thanks! | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 320 Registered: 7-2002 |
Byron if it is the EGR valve I think I have one spare you can have for nothing (well need to cover cost of shipping to the US) | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2265 Registered: 11-2002 |
The EGR valves go out rountinely these days as they are 10 yrs old now, causing a fairly obnoxious exhuast leak. Perhaps it's one of them? Agree that doesn't explain low oil pressure. Perhaps you're running the wrong oil for track use. | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2003 |
sounds like you may have cracked an exhaust manifold from the noise you describe. But that wouldn't explain low oil pressure....See what it's like when it's cooled down again, and then, if you still have cause for concern, drain the oil from tank and sump into a really clean pan and inspect it for shrapnel. There is no good news I'm afraid, even an exhaust repair will cost you. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1162 Registered: 10-2002 |
After 2 sessions on the track today, my 348 started to idle rough with very strong clicking sound toward the front of the engine (closer to the firewall). I noticed that my oil pressure had been low all day,, just above the first quarter mark, but the sump was at the 'max' line... even with a dry sump, is there any type of oil pickup that takes place? (the noise sounds familiar to the a car low on oil, picking up oil from the pan) Btw, no loss of power at all - just very loud noises in the car, almost like holding up a card to a bicycle spoke. I know this is fairly generic of a description - but any help anyone could give me would be great. At least it would give me some area to start looking first. HELP!!!! The car does NOT sound healthy and requires some immediate attention! thanks. |