| Author | Message | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 692 Registered: 4-2002 |
Drew, Thanks for the update. Will do mine this weekend :-) Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 183 Registered: 2-2002 |
Well, the diodes have been sodered, the motor is in and everything is working perfectly. 59 cents at Radio Shack. Sodering was a little tight but if i can do it anybody can. Drew | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 633 Registered: 10-2002 |
Damn, my F-dealer simply replaced my headlight motors with new ones. $$$  | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 182 Registered: 2-2002 |
Well I'm certainly not the expert but if I had to do it again the first thing I'd do is swap the relays. If that didn't get it I'd get a cheap VOM with a diode test function and use the Ric Rainbolt proceedure. These should not take you over an hour. If it is the diode you have to remove the motor. On a Boxer its real easy. On a 3X8 car you may have to remove tire and fiberglass covering to gain excess; can't remember. Once you pull the motor and remove the rubber covering you can desoder the two old diodes and install the new ones. I just desodered my old ones over lunch and purchase new ones at radio shack for 59 cents. I haven't had time to install them. Again Ric's proceedure is great to test for diode failure. | ||
| Carmine Nicoletta (Ncarmine)
Junior Member Username: Ncarmine Post Number: 110 Registered: 6-2002 |
Drew, In my 328, the LH headlight sometimes does not raise. And, sometimes it'll take >5min for it to lower after the lights have been off. What do you think? Is this diode related? Thanks Carmine | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 181 Registered: 2-2002 |
Problem solved. I ended up swapping relays, checking fuses and verifying I had power to the motor in the up and down positions. Still no dice. I then checked the diodes according to a proceedure written by Ric Rainbolt. Bingo: Bad diode on the black to green/black wires. To verify everything I had done I removed the problem motor and moved/wired it to the working LH side. Motor would not actuate when the light switch was actuated. Ric's proceedure as posted in the archives of Ferrarichat: "When the lights are turned on, the right one comes up, goes down, and comes up a second time to stay" The problem with the Daytona is that one or more diodes is burned out in the motor. Each motor has two diodes in it. Typically, the diode that's burned out is in the other motor that the one that's acting up. What follows is a procedure that I wrote in '97 for checking for this problem. It may also be useful for finding the original poster's problem. Stan is referring to a problem that occurs when one or more diodes (rectifiers) in the headlamp lifter motors fails. This can cause problems such as "winking" headlamps (one side or both), continuously running motors (up and down), or the lack of synchronization of the left and right motors. Loose or dirty connectors can also cause intermittent running or "cycling", as well. Non-functioning (dead) lifters is either the motor, wiring or the associated relay. The good news is, you can check the diodes in the headlamp lifter motor without removing the motors from the car. You'll need a multi-meter (VOM) that is capable of checking diodes (preferred) or one that has an low resistance Ohms range. Also needed are some screwdrivers and possibly end wrenches (10mm) and a low-wattage soldering iron. This procedure is for 308's, specifically my '81 308 2-valve. Other models and/or years may vary, but I think its the same all the way through the 328 model. GT/4's and 246's may be similar. 1) Disconnect the battery ground strap. 2) The headlamp motors connectors (both sides) should be disconnected. You probably will need to remove the grill (308's) or cover (328's) above the headlamp mechanisms to accomplish this, or, if you're flexible and nimble, you may be able to reach it with just the front bonnet up. 3) Use the hand crank knob on top of the motor to move the headlamp to about the halfway point (i.e. 1/2 up, 1/2 down). No precision is needed, just somewhere in between. 4) Now use the VOM to check the diodes by measuring the conductivity on the BLACK and GREY terminals. Measure with the VOM and then reverse the VOM leads and measure again. If you have a VOM with a diode check feature, in one direction you'll get infinity (no reading) and in the other you'll get a low value (usually less than 1.00 V). If you're using a VOM in Ohms mode, select a low scale range (1-3K ohms). In one direction you should get a low reading and in the other a fairly high or infinite reading. 5) Now check the other diode by measuring, as in step 4, with the BLACK and GREEN+BLACK wires. Note that at this point, both diodes share the BLACK wire. 6) If all is well, you should have made four measurements. Two will show a low value and two a high (or infinite) value. If any pair shows low values in both directions, the diode is shorted out and needs to be replaced. If any pair shows high values in both directions, the diode is "blown" and needs to be replaced. 7) If either diode is bad, you'll need to remove the motor from the car. This can be done by removing the drive lever nut and the drive lever and then the three bolts that hold the motor to the headlamp lifter assembly. 8) Peel back the rubber covers on the motor. This can be tough, but it can be done. Only the lower cover needs to be removed. 9) On the lower part of the mechanism, below the motor on the gear housing, you'll find a pair of diode rectifiers (small cylinders, usually black with a white or silver stripe at one end, with two metal leads coming out). Using a low-wattage soldering iron (designed for electronics, not woodburning) and remove the offending diode. Make sure to note the orientation of the diode before removing it. If you don't know which one is which, measure the diodes again with the VOM, this time directly on the diodes leads. 10) Take the dead rectifier to your local friendly electronics parts store (Radio Shack or equivalent) and find a similar sized unit from their stock. Exact specs are not really critical as all the part is only used for is to rectify a signal to a relay. Find a rectifier with at least a 1 Amp rating and a minimum of 50V. A "1N4001" is a good choice. 11) Put the good rectifier on the motor and perform steps 4-6 again. If all is well, reseal and return the lifter motor to the car. 12) Reconnect the connectors and the battery ground strap and test. Be careful when you reconnect the ground strap, since the half open headlamps will most likely cycle back to the resting position... don't be in the way when this happens, the car could get scratched or it could bite off your fingertips. NOTE: Measure both headlamp lifter motor's diodes. Sometimes, a diode failure in one motor can cause the opposite headlamp to act up (no really). End of Ric's write up and a couple of comments and pictures by Drew. Pictuer of the offending diode. Its actually the one on the right but I am replacing both. I thought everyone would like to have a look at what is under the rubber covering.  Also what the inside cam looks like.  So I am going to Radio Shack at lunch and buy two diodes and test my sodering skills tonight. Regards, and thanks for the proceedure Ric. Drew Altemara | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 684 Registered: 4-2002 |
Drew, Have nearly the same problem as you. Passenger headlight, sometimes works, sometimes not. Swapped relays, checked fuse box, etc etc. Please let me know if you find a solution as i have done everything it seems BUT remove motor and check internals. it does smoothly go up and down if i put the headlamp part way up, so it MUST be some relay or sensing device somewhere. ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 293 Registered: 4-2002 |
Drew, I have been blessed with very, very electrical issues with my BB, other than the high beams work when they feel like it. Not really a problem, since I don't drive the car at night. Just need them for State Inspection... Other than the "obvious" poor ground and or wiring connection...I would engage a helper to watch for trigger voltages at the suspect motor...when the headlights are first turned on. I always felt that the electrical design for the pop-up headlights seemed a bit overly complicated. As to the disassembly of the motors...not a big deal and similar in design to a wiper motor with internal make/break contacts...Clean the old grease and polish the contacts...Good to go! I'll be posting more on the other board concerning the problems I'm currently having with my BB...To condense a very long story, IMO and that of Magnacore (who currently has my wire set), the OE Ferrari wires are truly junk...and with a suspect MSD box and 11:1 compression, let's just say problems are abound to happen. Regards, David | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 634 Registered: 2-2002 |
Drew, Try manually cycling the headlight assembly up and down. There's an adjusting rod which might require a bit of adjustment to position the assembly to go up when you use the stalk to turn on the headlights. Disconnect the battery when you do this. Barry | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 180 Registered: 2-2002 |
Yea David. There are 3 relays. One for LH lifting motor. One for RH lifting Motor and one that just says lifting motor relay. I rotated them and cannot reproduce the problem on the LHS (working side). There is a common fuse, which I checked anyhow, so that's not it. Power both in the off/down and on/up position is the same; plus 13V to gray wire power off, plus 13V to green/black stripe power on. I'm going to recheck everything tonight and perform the proceedure outlined by Ric Rainbolt to check the diodes. The motor does not look like it would be that difficult to remove but taking it a part may be difficult. Anyone else? These are probably the same motors used on 308's. David, by the way have you resolved your clutch and ignition problems. I had been following your progress on the other site. Drew Drew | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 292 Registered: 4-2002 |
Drew, There are a couple of relays that are used to open the headlights...Seems I remember each side has a separate relay to engage the lifting motor. When I raise mine, I can hear the relays click, just before the headlights pop up. Regards, David | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 179 Registered: 2-2002 |
To clarify a little farther. The voltages I measured were from the connector coming from the steering column switch; not on the motor side. So I believe I am getting power both in the up and down position. I checked the fuses and there is only one commom one that controls the popup mechanism and it is fine. I did a little more searching and found a diode problem and troubleshooting proceedure by Rick Rainbolt. Will try this tonight. Any thoughts? | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 178 Registered: 2-2002 |
This is for a 79 Boxer. My problem is that the RHS headlight does not raise sometimes. It will always go down. I have switched relays and still have the problem on the RHS. Also, I have verified that I have the same voltages up and down in both the LHS (always works) and RHS by measuring the 4 prong connector. I suspect the problem is in the internal contacts in the motor. The wiring diagram shows that there is a contact system on the cam for the motor that raises and closes the headlights. It has a rubber cover. I am thinking about pulling the motor/cam apart and seeing if anything needs a little help. I could not find anything about this specifically in a search.. Has anybody been here before? Drew |