| Author | Message | ||
| Lou Menditto (Lmenditt)
New member Username: Lmenditt Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2001 |
My impression regarding the grease in the flywheel is that once the seal deteriorates and the flywheel starts losing grease, you will eventually get to a situation where the warm grease collects to one side while stopped, and you get an out-of-balance condition. In other words, it is the imbalance that makes the car hard to start rather than the reduced damping. Of course, I haven't found anyone with a definitive answer so it is all speculation. I have spoken to one of the teams that has raced a 348, and they replaced the entire system with a completely different setup and a small racing clutch. They, of course, had the money and energy to fix anything that they broke :-) plus it is not applicable to long-term street use. My project will continue to be a very long, slow process since I have had very little time to devote to it. | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 417 Registered: 7-2002 |
Lou, It's nice to see you post. I am very cautious about changing to a solid flywheel. This hot start problem for my car has been VERY challenging. I find it very difficult to believe that the grease in the flywheel is causing the problem. That having been said, I have changed EVRYTHING! I have chased grounds and mapped sensor signals. I have gapped the flywheel sensor several times and measured temps and charted them vs signals. I've gone so far as to custom make a hall effect sensor. If the problem is indeed the grease, (I've now thrown in the perverbial towel), I'm affraid you COULD be creating a permanent problem for yourself with the starting issue should you go solid. Let us know what happens. Jeff | ||
| Lou Menditto (Lmenditt)
New member Username: Lmenditt Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2001 |
Regarding Jeff's question on solid flywheels, I have been dealing with exactly this question with the folks at Fidanza Flywheels. In fact, they have my old flywheel right now. I wanted a lightened (aluminum) flywheel for my Mondial T. They have taken all the measurements from my OEM flywheel (for dual disk clutch) and are providing an estimate. The current ballpark is approximately $2000.00 but I have to find 10 friends to also purchase. The biggest issue is the spline hub. They feel that the one from the old flywheel can be removed and reused in a new unit to reduce the complexity of the machining. The other worry is that in their other (non-Ferrari) installations when converting from a damped flywheel to a solid unit, the clutch disks have been changed to sprung disks to make up for some of the lost damping. Since they don't offer the disks, that's the next hurdle I need to overcome before deciding if I should move forward with this. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member Username: Verell Post Number: 1102 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, The clutch arrived a couple of days ago. I've got to call 10,000RPM & get some quotes on repair/refurbshment. Then I'm going to contact the seller & vehemently give him a piece of my mind. But,not too much tho, as you all know it's fading anyway! - LOL: Would you expect to find the outer friction disc worn down to the rivits, and matching wear about 1mm deep on the matching pressure plate from this description: "It appears to be complete less some nuts and washers. The disc appear to be in good shape and the flywheel looks perfect. One of the metal plates between disc shows some wear." Very strange wear pattern.The outer surface of the outer friction disc is worn, as is the matching pressure plate surface. There's no sign of wear on the other friction surfaces, nor is there any sign of wear on the mating surfaces of the flywheel & the 2 metal intermediate plates. Also, the rivits that attach the diaphram to the pressure plate have been machined out so the diaphram is no longer attached to the pressure plate. Nothing was said about that either. IMHO, the clutch was assembled wrong somehow & the single side of that 1 disc was the only surface transfering torque, & it was overloaded & slipping. I sure hope 10,000RPM is still in business so I can get this into usable shape. Might be able to do it w/o them if I can find someone to replace the worn friction surface. Almost any machine shop should be able to re-surface the pressure plate, or even reproduce it. This weekend I'll try to find time to assemble it & measure the SetUp Height. I think it's higher than spec. I've got a stock pressure plate for comparison as well as the FSM specs. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 792 Registered: 11-2002 |
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| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 791 Registered: 11-2002 |
Verell, if you're street driving, you don't want this clutch. If you rarely street drive, but go to the track, then you will enjoy the inertia reduction and potentially quicker shifts this clutch may afford. Measure the parts to see if they're withing factory specs before installation. It probably will work with the factory TO bearing. On the 308 GT car, we also ran a Quarter Master hydraulic TO bearing assembly. Worked very well. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2002 |
If it's a true racing clutch, it's probably just like an on-off switch. True racing clutches allow for precious little slippage and feathering it may be rediculously immposible on the street. Jeff Davison | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 192 Registered: 7-2002 |
If it's a true racing clutch, it's probably just like an on-off switch. True racing clutches allow for precious little slippage and feathering it may be rediculously immposible on the street. Jeff davison | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member Username: Verell Post Number: 1095 Registered: 5-2001 |
re: Mating to crank As soon as Jonathan gets back from ME I plan to match the PP bolt holes up against his old one. re: SUH The pressure plate isn't compressed. The pp mounting nuts are missing in the photos. You can see how far they compress the pp downward by the height of the pp above the white cylindrical stand-offs slipped over the bolts in the middle photo. Seller claims it came out of a '81 308: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33730&item=2428499844 It looked so nice that I just couldn't resist throwing in a very low bid & was pleasantly surprised when I got it! My car's got 33,500mi on it, so I suspect the clutch is nearing the end of it's life. I'll find out when I adjust it this weekend. Anyway, when it's time to replace the present clutch I plan to put this one in & see how it drives. Suspect it'll be way too grabby for street use. Also may have vy high pedal pressure. I have no experience w/multi-plate clutches so am looking fwd to seeing how it's made. 3 discs sounds like it'll hold against a lot more torque than a 3x8 engine will put out. Rob, thanx for the address, however the URL for 10,000RPM is a dud. I'm planning to give them a call & see what I can find out. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 785 Registered: 11-2002 |
Verell, that's a race clutch. The critical dimmension (other than if it actually bolts to the crankshaft) is set-up height. SUH is in your WSM. The TO bearing may work with that pressure plate. 10,000 RPM 42541 6th St. E Ste 10 Lancaster, CA 93535 661-942-1312, fax 208-728-6303 10,000 RPM Alan, bummer about Meuller, I've used their products and have spoke with the owner, though not in four years  Funny how I get information sometimes. Rob | ||
| Alan Ing (Alan)
New member Username: Alan Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2002 |
Hi Verell, pretty neat clutch and flywheel. Sorry, I don't have any more information other than I used to see 10,000 rpms clutches in all the hot rod magazines I used to buy. I could be wrong, but the clutch cover looks awfully tall for a 308. You might have to use a different or modified TO bearing to make it work. If you put it in, let us know how it works. I have a Mueller Fabricators dual disc (one solid, one sprung) aluminum flywheel and clutch set up. It looks really cool. Unfortunately for me, I never installed it and the company went out of business after the owner passed away. If for some reason the clutch set up doesn't work out, let me know as I may be interested in purchasing the setup from you for parts (Need a new ring gear). | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member Username: Verell Post Number: 1094 Registered: 5-2001 |
RACING CLUTCH BY 10,000RPM Anyone know anything about this clutch:     I'm sure it's track only, but it looked so nice I took a chance on it. Can't find a web site for 10,000RPM, but there were quite a few references to their clutches. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 83 Registered: 3-2003 |
Jeff, I have a Kevlar clutch in my 308, it is solid and easy to drive. James has it set up perfectly. | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 409 Registered: 7-2002 |
Thanks Rob. I spoke with Norwoods. They haven't done a solid flywheel on a rear mounted clutch unit previously. I was concerned about the virbation potential. James assured me he could rebuild my clutch and line the discs with kevlar at an attractive price. I think he knows exactly what he's doing. Have you seen a solid flywheel on a rear mounted clutch (ie 348 or 355)? I think it'd be cool. Thanks for the reply. J | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 779 Registered: 11-2002 |
Tilton http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/261556.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/212225.html | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 406 Registered: 7-2002 |
Thanks Mark, As always, I'll be monitoring your thread. Let us know how things turn out. J | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 657 Registered: 5-2002 |
I put in a kelvar clutch I bought from butch at italian design and it's been working well for me, I don't know who actually made it, ...hopefully in a couple weeks I'll get to find out just how much power it will stand... | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 405 Registered: 7-2002 |
Thanks guys. I'll touch base with Norwoods' tomorrow and let you know what they say. | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 390 Registered: 7-2002 |
Jeff I don't know anyone building them for Ferraris, but Bill Cardell of Flyin' Miata got some made up for Miatas some years ago and could probably put you in touch with a vendor. Bill can be reached at [email protected]. Other than that, I assume you can approach the usual suspects (ACT etc). Philip | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 934 Registered: 8-2002 |
Off-topic addition, but you ought to have Rob change your "handle" to reflect your twin turbo now that Steve has your euro 308! | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 404 Registered: 7-2002 |
Anybody know where to get my discs covered in carbon? I'll also need to replace my plate springs with something a bit "heavier" J |