| Author |
Message |
Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member
Username: Snj5
Post Number: 431
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 7:12 am: | |
This re-affirms my faith in the Mondial Maxim:
No matter what the problem is, even a flat tire, it's a wiring problem until proven otherwise.' |
Robin Wells (Mondialdubai)
New member
Username: Mondialdubai
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 6:58 am: | |
Thanks to all who posted with suggestions.
The problem has now been identified and fixed by the Ferrari garage mechanics.
It was a dodgy wire connection at the fuel pump relay. That was culprit number one. Also the wire at the fuel pump itself wasn't connecting properly and was a little brittle. Moral of the story - check the fuses, check the connections and check the condition of the wires.
Many thanks to all who gave suggestions and advice. |
TOM BUCKLEY (Tom_b)
New member
Username: Tom_b
Post Number: 48
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 6:02 am: | |
Robin,
I've got the same problem with the same car. Check your fuse box. The terminal strip on the far right (looking from the back of the car) may have a burned connector and damaged PC board. I'm in the middle of fussing with mine. I'll keep you posted. By the way, it does seem to be heat related so the move to Dubai could very well have caused the fault to show itself.
Tom |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 8:46 am: | |
Robin -- I believe that on all of the K-Jet and KE-Jet equipped F models the fuel pump gets +12V power directly when the starter motor is cranking, but when the ignition key is released to the "run" position there is a "tachometric relay" (that is not located with the other relays) that continues to supply +12V power to the fuel pump only when it thinks the engine is actually running. When your mechanic supplied +12V power directly to the fuel pump this bypassed your tachometric relay system. Consequently, I'd guess that your problem is:
1. the flywheel sensor (or ign. module/ECU) giving the "engine is running" tach input signal to the tachometric relay has failed, or
2. the tachometric relay itself has failed, or
3. there's some sort of input power or wiring problem in the tachometric relay system.
The things your mechanic should be checking are:
1. Is there +12V input power present to the tachometric relay during starter cranking (or engine running)?
2. Is there a (pulsing) tach input signal present to the tachometric relay during starter cranking (or engine running)?
3. If 1 and 2 are OK, is there +12V on the output line of the tachometric relay going to the fuel pump?
Just some guesses...
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Robin Wells (Mondialdubai)
New member
Username: Mondialdubai
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:34 am: | |
Thanks guys - will check the air flow meter diagram as suggesed.
Or at least, I will ask the mechanics in the service centre to do it....mmm...slightly frustrating. You know how keen they are to get your car into their garages and then...nothing. Not even a phone call to say hi we haven't broken it yet.
I went down there just to have a look and found that the "viewing room" is now hermetically sealed - and you're not allowed near your car or the mechanics. I presume this is less about safety and more about preventing you doing a runner when they present the bill...
Thanks Joe and Jeremy for your suggestions. Greg, it fires immediately, tries to settle down to a steady idle, but just can't keep it going for more than a second and dies - with the usual ignition/battery lights coming on the dash like you've stalled. Same thing over and over - and pressing the throttle has no effect: it revs higher immediately when you start, but then drops down and dies.
Joe - about the fuel pump: the mechanics did indicate that this worked, but only when they hot-wired it direct from a 12v source. They got the motor running like this, but are not sure what's causing the feed to be poor. Sorry I'm being so vague, but I have something of a language barrier with the mechanics, whose English is not like any language I know.
The saga continues... |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 807
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:41 am: | |
Does it just stop all together or bog for a second then stall? |
Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
New member
Username: Rscapri2600
Post Number: 40
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:26 am: | |
Robin, Jeremy gives good advice and the procedure is outlined in the service manual.
One thing to be careful of. Only press it down once because the injectors start spraying fuel as the plunger is depressed. I severely flooded my motor since I depressed it 3 times.
1) Is your fuel pump running? It's located under your car next to the gas tank. I recall it is under the panel just in front of the motor. They actually quite a bit of noise, sort of like a whirring, when they are running. I made a jumper for my fuse box that got it running during my tests. This is also mentioned in the shop manual. |
jeremy andrew dixon (Jeremydixon)
New member
Username: Jeremydixon
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 3:28 am: | |
Before trying the electric gremlin, try removing the air filtercover and air filter, and pushing the air flow meter diaphram. These sometimes stick
if the car has not been used for a while. |
Robin Wells (Mondialdubai)
New member
Username: Mondialdubai
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:24 pm: | |
Joe, thanks very much for your advice on this.
Will follow your suggestions. |
Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
New member
Username: Rscapri2600
Post Number: 34
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 8:30 am: | |
The ECU isn't in the fuel pump circuit on my 85 Mondial.
Without seeing an 87 wiring diagram, I'd take a good look at the fuse responsible for the fuel pump. You can look on the fuse panel cover for it's location. My fuse was connected ok, but the fuse block connection to the fuse panel connection had been overheated and was open. I actually pulled the fuse block off the panel and cut the block apart in two pieces, leaving out the connection to the fuel pump. I purchased some items from Radio Shack.
Fuse Holder
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F004%5F004%5F000&product%5Fid=270%2D1234
Wire Crimp
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F003%5F004%5F000&product%5Fid=64%2D3134
I installed this in place of the former fuse.
I should take a pic and share but my car runs again.
85 Mondial. |
Robin Wells (Mondialdubai)
New member
Username: Mondialdubai
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 7:10 am: | |
Greetings. This is my first post, having looked through some previous Tech Q&A's and really gained a lot already.
I've just imported a 1987 Mondial 3.2 from Italy to sunny Dubai in the UAE, where I live. (see dockside photo in my profile)
We're at the shaking-down stage...but even before I could get it into the garage for the big once-over, a gremlin has emerged!
The car starts on the button, but dies virtually immediately thereafter. Having the throttle open or closed makes no difference - it just dies.
The local Ferrari dealer are pointing their finger at the fuel ECU (under car, nearside front of engine) - having apparently discovered that this is receiving current OK, but not transferring it to the fuel pump. They bypassed the ECU, somehow, and the fuel pump apparently worked fine and the car started and continued to run OK.
I'm not entirely convinced, however, as the car was running fine here for a number of weeks before this apparent ECU failure and it just seems a little too convenient.
I must say that I did pull out the odd fuse at whilst cleaning, and wonder if I dislodged anything then. Also, Dubai is about 45-50 degrees (hot!) in the summer: could a change of temperature be related?
Any other possible suggestions or ideas where to look would be most appreciated. Shukran.
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