| Author |
Message |
Malcolm West (Ferrari_uk_tech)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrari_uk_tech
Post Number: 80
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 2:40 am: | |
Steve,
You have mail
Regards
MW |
David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member
Username: Fastradio2
Post Number: 302
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 3:21 pm: | |
Steve,
Glad to hear you got your engine sorted out...
Regards,
David
|
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 83
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 2:38 pm: | |
Well, the car seems to be working correctly now. It starts at 1,100 RPM and then after approximately 30 seconds accelerates to 2,300 RPM than when the AMBER warm-up light goes out in drops to a smooth, steady 1,000 RPM. I cleaned the aux air valve with carb cleaner and sprayed WD-40 (WD-50 in my case) into it. I replaced all the vacuum lines/clanps and cleaned/tightened all the electrical connections. I did check the injector on the intake manifold. It sprayed a nice clean pattern and did not drip/leak when unpowered. I reconnected the wire that had been disconnected. It was folded back and down so it was done by someone on purpose. If it happens again I believe I will go fot the thermo-switches as suggested by Mark. I will also try to locate information of the "initial" set-up of the throttle plate and by-pass valve.
I thank everyone for their kind, prompt input.
Steve Schroeder |
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg
Post Number: 584
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 9:38 am: | |
'82 GTSi US model; car idles @ 1000rpm when first started, after 45 seconds or so shoots up to 2300+/- until warm, then goes back to standard idle. Been that way since I bought it; thermo-time switch replaced.
Doesn't seem to affect anything so I just quit worrying about it. |
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 82
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 7:39 am: | |
First, let me thank everyone who has "hung in there" with me on this problem. I'd like to get the car working as it should.
More information now, when a room temperature the slit/hole in the aux. air valve is open approximately 3/16 of the total hole area. Picture in the work shop manual rather confirms this. I applied 9 volts, from a battery, to the valve and it did slowly close completely. By disconnecting the electrical plug at the air flow sensor (bridge the safety circuit as the work shop manual puts it), ignition ON, there is battery voltage at the aux air valve plug. Today I'm going to check the electro valve (fuel nozzle) on the intake.
Frankly I am beginning to feel the problem is with the "initial" set up of the throttle plate and by-pass valve. The throttle plate is bearly open at idle (screw turned perhaps 1/16 to 1/8 off of fully closed) and the by-pass screw is almost all the way in. When properly warm the car runs great, smooth in all RPM's and the idle never varies from 1,000. Also I'll disconnect/open the line at the aux. air valve and see what the RPM does then.
Again, my thanks to all.
Steve |
Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member
Username: Jjfinland
Post Number: 196
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 12:26 am: | |
Steve, this seems to be quite tricky problem, I have been thinking about the behavier of your engine. I tell you how mine works: When cold, it goes direct to 2800 rpm, and keeps it untill the water is warm ( not just engine ) then it drops direct to 1000 rpm. The aux. valve with bi-metal could NEVER work that fast.
The lack of high rpm in your case worries me, can you check that if the aux. valve is fully open in room temperature, because it should be. |
Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member
Username: Trinacria
Post Number: 419
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 11:03 pm: | |
No one has this valve (I am beginning to be convinced). If you try to put in your shopping cart with UK, it automatically gets removed with a note. I have the Bosch part number and have called/contacted maybe 30 places - no luck. Even a place that allegedly rebuilds old Bosch parts couldnt find it for me. Anyone have ideas on this? |
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 81
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 2:39 pm: | |
Well, I removed the Aux. air valve and, as David said, there was a small slit. After one hour in the freezer the slit/hole was almost completely open. After warming it up in a 150 degree F oven the slit was was small but still open. The work shop manual shows the slit/hole to be completely closed when warm - mine is not. Could not a small vacuum leak, which not completely closing would be, affect the setting of the throttle plate/by-pass screw. Again the work shop manual says to set these with the radiator fans on so it must mean a warmed-up engine. Suggestions? Ferrari UK seems to have this valve available.
Thanks again for the input; Steve |
Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
Junior Member
Username: Rscapri2600
Post Number: 51
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 11:39 am: | |
Hmmm, I race VW GTIs which have these valves too and I might have extras. I'll have to look at them to see if they are compatible.
85 Mondial. |
Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member
Username: Jjfinland
Post Number: 193
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 10:54 am: | |
All cars with Bosch K-Jetronic FI has the same details, WV, Porsche,Volvo and so on. The auxiliary air valve works with bimetal, and opens very slowly. I belive your problem is just this lack of extra air. Just pull the hose loose from aux. air valve, and engine should run 2800 rpm when could.( and even when warm, unless you put the hose back ). I have seen this part in a Porsche 911, looks very similar. If you look at internet: Bosch K- Jetronic, you can see the details includet, in any car. Some details have differant settings, regarding the car, but not this on. Try this and let me know? |
Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member
Username: Trinacria
Post Number: 418
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 10:01 am: | |
"There is an auxiliary air valve which is enabled during cold start conditions to bleed additional air to increase the idle rpm."
This is true and they do go after a while. It is a simple bi-metal switch. Good luck trying to find one if it is no good. I have been looking for 1 year. |
David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member
Username: Fastradio2
Post Number: 300
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 9:15 am: | |
Steve,
I agree, further diagnoses is necessary before spending any money...
In the simplest explanation, as Joe states, the aux. air valve must function correctly for your car to fast idle. Locate this device, and remove it from your vehicle...
If you look down the hole, you will see a metal plate with a small slit in it. When, at room temperatue, very the slit will be near closed...i.e. little light will pass thru the valve. Now, bag the valve and stick in your freezer for an hour, or so...Remove, and recheck the slit..it should be noticeable open now...i.e. allowing more air to flow through the valve.
The internals of the valve can, over time, get gummed up with oil vapor deposits. A bit of carb spray and compressed air might help...
Other factors to consider:
Base idle speed
Throttle plate base setting
Sensor plate height...though I doubt this is an issue from what you've described.
David
|
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 80
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 7:12 am: | |
THe "Cold-Start" valve seems to be opening and closing at the proper times. My guess is that the problem is in the initial throttle plate/bleed screw set-up or that the warm-up regulator is bad. However, at approximately 350.00 pounds I'd like to be more convinced that is the problem before spending the money. |
Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
New member
Username: Rscapri2600
Post Number: 49
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 12:20 am: | |
There is an auxiliary air valve which is enabled during cold start conditions to bleed additional air to increase the idle rpm. The cold start valve is dumping extra gas into the engine, and if your aux air valve isn't working your engine would be running a bit too rich as you described.
I'm having a similar problem with my Lotus Esprit, I just keep my foot on the pedal when I'm warming it up but I'd like to make it start better too.
85 Mondial |
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 79
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 6:53 pm: | |
Gentlemen:
This problem is going to turn me into a card carrying alcoholic. Let me say from the onset that the car NEVER fails to start immediately whether cold or hot.
The "AMBER" warm up light allows comes ON when the water temperature is less then approximately 140 degress F. If ON, such as the first start of the day, it goes OFF at approxiamtely 140 F. The engine RPM never gets above 1,100 or so and then drops to 1,000. which I believe is proper.
The "cold-Start" valve opens as it should and at approximately 140 F it closes. I believe this is correct. Upon further investigation I discovered that one wire had been removed (pulled loose) from the Electrovalve on the intake manifold. I reconnected it but the problem remains.
Perhaps the initial setup for the throttle plate or by-pass screw is wrong? Does anyone know the initial settings. The work shop manual says to connect a vacuum gauge to the EGR port on the throttle body and then adjust the throttleposition to obtain a vacuum of 2.5mm to 3.0 mm HG. Then adjust the idle speed with the by-pass valve. I've tried that but it seems to me that there must be some sort of initial settine for the throttle plate. I should add that sometimes, not always, the car acts if it is running rich (misses and black smoke) until it is completely up to operating temperature, then it never does it again. Perhaps a new warm-up regulator is in order.
As always, thanks in advance for the advise and help.
Steve Schroeder |