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David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member
Username: Fastradio2

Post Number: 394
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 4:48 pm:   

Jeff,

Glad to hear you got the tire issue resolved....

Regards,
David
Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member
Username: Miltonian

Post Number: 605
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 3:52 pm:   

Here's an update, in case anyone cares.

Costco bent over backwards to please the customer (me). They gave me 100% of my money back, removed the two RE730 tires that were causing my problem, no questions asked.

I ordered four new Bridgestone Expedia S01 tires in the stock sizes from The Tire Rack (good guys) and had them sent to my home via UPS. The manager of the tire department at Costco offered to mount and balance my four new tires, purchased elsewhere, for free! Just to please the customer.

I just drove the car 50 miles on the new tires, at speeds up to 90MPH, and had NONE of the instability/wandering that I experienced with the RE730's. I cannot say for absolute certain at this point whether the problem was caused by a defect in the 730's (that would be my guess) or if the problem was that I only mounted new rear tires, and not a set of four. I hate to waste the 50% tread still remaining on the fronts, but really, the car was undriveable.

The S01 is the direct replacement for the original equipment Bridgestone RE71's. I paid a total of $753.90 for the set of four, including shipping and free (!) mount & balance.

Insert happy face here.
Mike Florio (Mike_in_nevada)
New member
Username: Mike_in_nevada

Post Number: 46
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 10:08 am:   

Look at the Yokohama AVS 100 ES

I'm a believer after a couple of months with these new tires. Great stability and turn-in response, much better than the Michelin Pilot Sports they replaced.

A couple of weeks ago I was doing about 85 when I literally hit a wall of water from a torrential downpour in Eastern Nevada. There was about 3" of standing water on the freeway - it was coming down so hard. No aquaplaning! Good control. Luckily, everybody, including the big trucks, slowed to about 45.

Check out the reviews on TireRack.com
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mitch_alsup

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 2:39 pm:   

"Pirelli/Michelin Rules"

Not according to: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/max.jsp
steve coleby (Ferraridriver)
Junior Member
Username: Ferraridriver

Post Number: 144
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 2:10 pm:   

Formula 1 tyres are totally totally different to the road tyres. there is no comparison at all! Pirelli/Michelin Rules

Steve
J R K (Kenyon)
Member
Username: Kenyon

Post Number: 733
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 11:50 pm:   

I run with KUHMO tyres they are excellent.....
285-35-18 at the rear....
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred

Post Number: 809
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:20 pm:   

I have RE730s on my 308 and have had no problems with them. Like Skip mentioned though my rears have worn much faster then the fronts.
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mitch_alsup

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 9:47 pm:   

"I would advise keeping away from bridgestone."

Bridgestone S02 pole position, and S03 are fabulous tires. There is absolutely no reason to avoid these.
steve coleby (Ferraridriver)
Junior Member
Username: Ferraridriver

Post Number: 143
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 3:53 pm:   

Hi
I would advise keeping away from bridgestone. Try the Pirelli P zero or the Michelin sport

Cheers
Steve
J R K (Kenyon)
Member
Username: Kenyon

Post Number: 727
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 3:38 am:   

TYRE TALK Thursday 11th September

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=109&i=7304


Julian Smith from Ride Drive explains some of the dangers of neglecting your rubber

Tyres are something that many drivers don�t really pay very much attention to and yet their importance should not be under estimated. Complacency with tyres can kill.

We are not just talking about tread depth here; that would be far too obvious. No, there are other issues with tyres that are far more serious and yet they are perhaps not so obvious. So, what checks do you make before you take to the road in your car? What are the types of things you should be looking for with your tyres?

The tyre manufacturer, in association with the vehicle manufacturer, will:

Design a tyre that is the most appropriate size in relation to the wheel rim.
Design a tyre that is capable of being easily inflated and should remain so.
Design a tyre that is will be appropriate in its ability to cope with the speed capable of being achieved by the vehicle to which it is fitted, and remain inflated.
Have a design and construction that will be appropriate in respect of the type of work the vehicle is expected to carry out.
Has the ability to efficiently disperse surface water and therefore reduce the chance of aquaplaning.
Be able to withstand a certain degree of abuse without any adverse effect.
Provide details of a recommended pressure that is appropriate to the vehicle weight in order that the contact area of the tyre is sufficient to provide an acceptable amount of grip.
Give the most comfortable ride for the vehicle occupants as possible without any drop in performance.
Have as great an amount of mileage life as will be possible without loss of quality or performance.
Tread Carefully

Well, we�ve brushed upon tread depth. That is important because it is the tread pattern in the tyre that disperses the water when we drive in wet conditions. If there is no tread pattern then the water cannot be dispersed and the tyre will then develop a cushion of water between its contact surface and the road. This phenomenon is known as �Aquaplaning� and if there is anyone out there that has experienced that first hand they will know that is it extremely frightening.

Basically, legal aspects aside, if the tyre looks iffy then it is iffy(!) and should be replaced as even at the legal 1.6mm limit their ability to disperse water is seriously reduced and quite ineffective. Other obvious signs are tears, lumps, bumps, splits and cuts. If you have any of these scrap the tyre and get another.

Slip Angle

So what else is there to know? What about pressure? Not the kind of pressure you get from your spouse or partner because you haven�t done something that you were supposed to do. What we mean here is the air pressure in the tyre. Ask yourself how often you give this a thought. For those who do give it a thought, how many actually make a physical check?

Tyre pressures are vital in the Ride Drive guide to survival and the importance should not be underestimated. Air pressure within the tyre is what keeps it at the right shape and what makes it do the job it was designed to perform. If you have a difference of pressure in the two tyres fitted to the rear of your car this will, under the wrong circumstances, cause severe vehicle instability, even if that pressure difference is just a couple of pounds per square inch! That is because different pressures within tyres will produce a different rate in what is called, �Slip Angle.�

Without getting into rocket science here, a slip angle basically is the rate of creep of a tyre across the road surface when the vehicle it is fitted to is cornering, and when you have a difference across an axle you are in deep trouble.

Whilst pottering around the town in traffic you would never notice and you may not even notice on the slightly more free flowing suburban routes, but get out on the open road and begin to build up speed and the next corner you come to could be your last. A car can actually be quite stable even on the wrong tyre pressures, providing that those pressures are the same across a particular axle and those pressures do not differ by any great amount to those recommended. However, the difference from one tyre to the opposite on one axle has only to be a small amount to cause loss of control.

Blow Outs

You will often here of people discussing tyre �blow-outs�. A tyre blow-out, to give it a definition, is the sudden and total deflation of a tyre due to the collapse of its structure. There is a tremendous amount of rubbish talked of when it comes to blowouts and it is something that is severely misunderstood amongst the motoring population. Blowouts do not just happen, they are caused and that cause 99.9% of the time is negligence coupled with a lack of awareness.

As mentioned earlier, the air pressure within a tyre is put there to maintain the integrity of that tyre. That means it is there to maintain the shape and profile of the tyre, and therefore its structure. If you steadily reduce the pressure of a tyre you will reach a point, long before it is flat, where the tyre walls begin to bulge outward. The reason for this distortion is that there is insufficient air pressure within the tyre to maintain the integrity of its shape.

If that car is then driven with the soft tyre the bulging tyre wall, now less rigid due to lost pressure, will begin to distort even more and begin to ripple as it rotates. This rippling effect causes friction and, as you know, friction causes heat. All the time a car is being driven along the road with a tyre in this condition, that tyre is generating heat within itself and the level of heat will be rising all the time. Eventually there will come a point when the tyre will say to itself, �I�ve had just about enough of this!� and will suddenly let go with a bang. They have even been known to ignite!

Why?

Let us not get carried away here but instead ask ourselves why has the tyre gone soft in the first place. After all that is the cause of the problem at the beginning of this chain of events. The answer here is that either it has picked up a nail, or similar, and has a slow puncture, or the pressures have not been checked for so long that it has gradually deflated more and more through age and neglect. It could be that you have been running around for weeks like it, but because you have been the only occupant of the car you have got away with it. Now, when you have got three other people and a boot full of luggage in the car, things are very different.

Age

Another contributory factor is the age of tyre. Have a look at the walls of your car tyres. Now have a really close look. Do you see any signs of a small crazed pattern in the rubber � like a mini crazy paving pattern? If you can then the walls of the tyre are perished and therefore weakened.

Sunshine and salt spray are the biggest culprits when it comes to perishing rubber and is most common on those vehicles that are used infrequently and which stand outside. Caravans and trailers are the biggest offenders in this category as they are often stood in some outside storage place for eleven months of the year before spending a couple of weeks on the road.

Another aspect of tyre perishing you may wish to consider concerns your spare wheel. Where is it carried on the vehicle? Most 4x4�s have them mounted upon the rear-loading door, which is fine providing it is covered over. But if it isn�t then it will deteriorate and perish very quickly. Those that are mounted beneath the vehicle will not last long either as they receive all the salt spray and muck that is flung around under the car from the road wheels, so check them on a regular basis.

Kerbing

When did you last hit a kerb, or bump up the kerb whilst trying to park? What damage has there been done to the tyre? Sure, you have maybe looked at it to see what sort of condition it is in, but that will only be through the worry of having to fork out for a new one. But what damage has the tyre suffered that could affect your safety?

If you have just banged your car up a kerb the damage to your tyre may not be apparent on the outside, but may have caused havoc on the inside. Broken ply-cords and layer separation of the rubber banding is common and you will never see it unless the tyre is taken off the rim. Don�t assume anything or you could pay dearly.

Your Call

Given the expense of tyres - particularly on performance cars - it's all too tempting to put off replacing them, particularly if you need to replace a pair. Hopefully the information we've provided here will make that decision a no-brainer in future. There are few components on a car that can have such a dramatic and devastating effect on the handling of your car - look after them and they'll look after you.

Links

Tyre Links
PistonHeads Tyre Finder

Skip Williamson (Darolls)
Junior Member
Username: Darolls

Post Number: 56
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 10:44 pm:   

I have the RE730's (1st. edition),on one of my F-car's. Love em, ceptin' the rears are wearing twice as fast as the fronts.

Have a friend that put 2nd. edition RE730's on his Ferrari about a year ago, he loves them too.

Jeff, I'd replace all 4; or at least the fronts to match the rears.

There is the 30 day return policy.......
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda

Post Number: 1827
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 9:23 pm:   

Jeff,
I also did some checking and you are right, the RE730 is still in production, and has been upgraded to reduce the problem of noise as it wears. You were right to return the tires. Not only for the problem, but also due to age...I would not willingly buy tires over 1.5 years old. For a similar price, you can get the improved RE750...that would be my choice. Get them from www.tirerack.com and have them drop shipped to a dealer they recommend, near you. I've never had a problem mixing tires, but do try my best to replace in sets of four whenever possible.
Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
Junior Member
Username: Rscapri2600

Post Number: 65
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 8:55 pm:   

My Mondial handled a bit odd after I replaced the rear wheels and tires with 16" Kumhos from TireRack. The fronts still had the old TRX tires.

What I noticed is that the rear sidewalls or tread seemed to squirm more than the front, and the car would steer tighter than I expected (classic oversteer) It almost felt like the rear lugs nuts were loose. I just installed the new front tires with wheels and now the car handles normally again.

My vote is the difference between the front and rear tires.
Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
Junior Member
Username: Rscapri2600

Post Number: 64
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 8:55 pm:   

My Mondial handled a bit odd after I replaced the rear wheels and tires with 16" Kumhos from TireRack. The fronts still had the old TRX tires.

What I noticed is that the rear sidewalls or tread seemed to squirm more than the front, and the car would steer tighter than I expected (classic oversteer) It almost felt like the rear lugs nuts were loose. I just installed the new front tires with wheels and now the car handles normally again.

My vote is the difference between the front and rear tires.
Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member
Username: Miltonian

Post Number: 572
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 8:13 pm:   

Thanks, Skip. The tires are stamped 0702, so they were made the 7th week of 2002. I stopped by Costco this afternoon to discuss my problem. They showed me some RE730 tires (not in my size) that were made just a couple of months ago, so the RE730 apparently has NOT been discontinued.

Bridgestone and Costco have what is called the "30 Day Test Drive" for their tires. If not completely satisfied, purchaser can return the tires within 30 days for a full refund or exchange. So I can get my money back and purchase a matching set somewhere else. Hopefully results will be more successful next time.
Skip Williamson (Darolls)
Junior Member
Username: Darolls

Post Number: 55
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 6:55 pm:   

It was the last 3 digits of the serial number. The first 2 digits in the series is the week, and the last digit the year. Thus, 039 would be the 3rd. week of 1999.

On more recent tires,I believe it's been changed to the last 4 digits so, 0303 would be the 3rd. week of 2003.
Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member
Username: Miltonian

Post Number: 571
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 5:24 pm:   

It was probably a mistake just to replace the rears, but Bridgestone didn't list a matching size for the fronts in a Z-rated tire (215/50ZR17) and the old fronts still have plenty of tread. I certainly didn't expect to make the car undriveable!

Dave: I have checked several websites, and I can't find information on checking for the production date on the sidewall, although I thought I have heard that the date is stamped on. Where do you look?

I have been advised to have the tires checked on a road force/sidewall deflection balancing machine to look for possible misaligned tread belts.

Will report on findings.
neal (95spiderneal)
Member
Username: 95spiderneal

Post Number: 258
Registered: 3-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 2:33 pm:   

i bet problems stem from mixing front and rears. i switched 7 year old oem to kumho mx 275 rear and 225 front and car was greatly improved for about $600. still have them after 1 year and 10 track days
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda

Post Number: 1825
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 12:51 pm:   

Jeff,
I used the Bridgestone RE730's on my 308 in the 225/50/16 and 245/45/16 size with no major problems. The only thing I noticed was that after 8k miles they developed an annfoying humming noise on the freeway. Rechecking www.tirerack.com found a LOT of others complaining of the same issue. Never heard of the other technical problems with the RE730, but they did supercede them about a year ago with the RE750. Where did you find there RE730's and what is the manufacture date stamped on them?
David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member
Username: Fastradio2

Post Number: 336
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 7:05 am:   

Jeff,
The Bridgestone RE730s were a problemsone tire...that came as OE on the Audi S4. Numerous issues with quality of construction, sidewall integrity and belts shifting at speed.

Audi, Bridgestone...and the Tirerack quietly admitted a problem...and replaced them FOC with other tires.

Feel free to contact me via PM for the details

Regards,
David
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul

Post Number: 391
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 2:35 am:   

Jeff,

You need to replace the front tyres as well.

Here in the UK, most Ferrari shops insist on changing all 4 tyres on a 348 due to stability problems at speed.

Paul
Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member
Username: Miltonian

Post Number: 569
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 1:20 am:   

Some other information about the car/tires:
- I rechecked lug bolt torque twice, it's fine.
- I checked rolling circumference between the two new rear tires, it's fine.
- The new rear tires were spin balanced at the tire shop, and took only .5 oz per tire. The balance feels fine.
- There is no associated noise at all when the car "steps out".
- No other work was done to the car. I pulled off the rear wheels, took them to the tire shop, had new tires mounted on the rims, brought them home, put them back on the car, BOOM!! Instant problem!
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher

Post Number: 460
Registered: 1-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 12:28 am:   

ummm this shouldnt happen just with a new set of tires. Make sure the lugs are tight number one, I have seen a few cars do this after they worked the lugs lose (Thus the reason you are suppose to tighten the lugs after 100 miles when they have been removed). Also did you have the tires balanced when they put the new tires on? Besides that I had the same thing you descibed happen to my car when I blew out the rear wheel bearing. Did the car make a noise when it jerk sideways?
Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member
Username: Miltonian

Post Number: 568
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 12:20 am:   

The rear tires on my 348 were worn out, so I bought a pair at Costco. The ones I replaced were Bridgestone RE71's, 255/45ZR17, stock size. The ones I installed were Bridgestone RE730's, exact same size, same speed rating, directional tread patterns on both, same inflation pressures (35F, 38R). The old tires had perfectly normal wear patterns and had been giving excellent performance, they were just worn out.

The problem: with the new tires on, the car is almost undriveable on the freeway. It seems to be "floating", and a couple of times the rear end has suddenly moved sideways about a foot for no apparent reason. I mean it is SCARY! I'm not talking about high speeds here, it does it a 65-70MPH. It was 100% fine before the new tires went on. They didn't have the car at the tire shop, I took in the wheels and remounted them myself. The tires and wheels are on the correct sides. The tires are rotating in the proper direction. The steering wheel is centered OK, the car does not pull, there are no unusual noises.

What happened? Are these tires junk? Do I need to shave off half of the new tread and make slicks out of them? Do they need to be "heat cycled"?

Any advice?

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