| Author | Message | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 748 Registered: 5-2002 |
It's alive and purring!.....time for a beer. I still need to get the cooling loop for the intercooler online, do some tuning, and put the hood on (god I hope I measured right), maybe by tomorrow it will be ready for the road. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 529 Registered: 2-2003 |
Mark thanks for the oil cooler info. Will have an update with photos tomorrow best rt | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 738 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks guys. Russ, The oil cooler is an aeroquip FBM2194 that I bought from summit racing for $256 http://store.summitracing.com The header wrap did make a noticable differance in my car, but the stock heat sheilds weren't in very good shape, all the insulation had shacken to the bottom. If yours are in good shape, I don't know if it would help or not. How is your beast running? I know you've been playing with the jetting. Billy Bob, I called them today, but had to leave a message...they didn't call back. I'll try once more then I'll protest the charge with the credit card company. I think if I were racing the car, I probably would cut a hole in the hood, but for the street I don't think I want to do that. I like the car to look basically stock to the untrained eye. I think ferrari did a pretty good job with the looks and I would just mess it up, plus I like the dazed "what just happed, the magazine stats said I'd win easy" look they leave the race with.... Jerry, I think the only problem with beening an accountant is that you have the common sence not to do anything like this to begin with  | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 525 Registered: 2-2003 |
Mark I really like the oil heat exchanger - commercial sourced? I've seen a norwood setup with both scoops used to funnel in fresh air, but it was for straight injection. Hard to fathom that a straight duct through to the current filter is too restrictive, but it is quite a volume of air. One other thought which you may have looked at as well is to use the forward or all of the port half of the bonnet grill for intake and the starboard for venting hoping there would be no side-to-side mixing during forward motion and that one side of the bonnet vent would allow enough heat to escape. Do the wrapped headers make a difference in heat radience? Again - excellent work and am learning a lot. best rt | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 364 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mark, Send a copy of these e-mails to Whipple. I hate stupid companies. Let them know over 1000 Ferrari owners see how they do business. AS to the Airbox...cut a hole in the bonnet and run a shaker style or ram air intake just peaking over the roofline like a race car. Turn the old intake ducts in to rear brake cooling ducts. | ||
| Jerry Slagle (Slag_328gts)
Junior Member Username: Slag_328gts Post Number: 55 Registered: 9-2003 |
Mark, nice work, very well done. Some days I regret being an accountant. :-( | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 734 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Russ. Actually both side ducts are availble, and I fear required...right now the blower is set to pump 720 scfm and I have pulleys to push it up to 820. I'm afraid that's more air than one 4 inch dia x 4-5 foot long hose will want to flow. The blower can force the issue, but inlet restrictions are very bad for hp, even with a blower. I did have the bonnet idea and I like it, the only problem is I thing the hot air goes out those vents and would get sucked back in...although it's still got to be better than engine bay air. I might try that, it certainly the easiest....I could dump the side vents into the bonnet enclosure so it would flow good and atleast some to the air would be cold...more thought...I don't want it to look to busy either and it's getting pretty bad as far as that goes. Both ducts are available because I'm using a water/oil heat exchanger to cool the oil to send the heat up front to the radiator. If you look at the shot that shows the blower drive belt, it's the silver thing welded into the coolant tube in front of the belt. I put it on the hot line thinging the oil should be quite a bit hotter than the cooling water and I can get by without a thermostat this way...we'll see if it works as planned. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 522 Registered: 2-2003 |
Looks great - very well done! Since the port scoop is taken up by the oil cooler, I'd agree that running an inlet duct from the starboard scoop through a box on the back firewall to the tb sounds like the best. Since the MAP is generated from the blower, the tract length (flow resistance) seems to be less of a concern as opposed to normal aspiration. Almost seems like might could use the stock airbox mounted on the rear firewall abutting the headertank, with the inlet duct (Av-hose available for this) going around the perimeter from the scoop to the filter box, then coming down, up and into the tb. Another idea which you also probably had was to build a box holding the filter which sealed to the closed bonnet grill drawing air from outside port side of the engine cover bonnet. Anyway, some seeds for thought. Bottom line is that it looks super so far! best rt | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 733 Registered: 5-2002 |
ok, the throttle is on and working as are the IAC (idle air control - keeps idle constant as engine warms up or when A/C comes on) and blower by-pass valve (unloads the compressor when the throttle is closed) The air cleaner is next. I have a K&N i think I'm going to throw on for now (needs a quick adapter). I want to do something connected to the side inlets, but I'm not sure what, if anyone has any thoughts Id' love to hear them. I guess I can build a box and mount it on the rear fire wall then run hoses...I don't know...     | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 729 Registered: 5-2002 |
The belt is on. Now for the throttle. ...and I got the receipt from whipple for the part I didn't get, they charged me $27 shipping and handling to sent a 4" long by about 4 oz part.....unbelievable...  | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 722 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeff what a great looking engine!! You said that car was around 1700 lbs didn't you? That's going to be a rocket. I'm in a little pissing match with whipple at the moment. There's a guy with a 2Vi that asked me to build him a 20-24 psi system for his car. Great, but after 8 emails over the last 2 months, whipple still hasn't given me any pricing, so I'm a little annoyed. Apparently the guy I used to deal with is no longer there and the new guy doesn�t really understand how to work email. Then when I went to put oil in the blower, I realized that there is no level indication, call whipple.. you need a dip stick, it's $13� OK send it air so I have it for the weekend Note on door from FedEx, signature required Call FedEx � you will need to come to the hub and pick it up if you are not going to be home (Hub is about a 1 hour drive) OK I have a better Idea, send it back so they can ship it right. Call whipple - since you shipped it signature required, it is not deliverable, and is on it�s way back, you will need to ship another one. Blah Blah , not our responsibility once it leaves our door, blah, blah FedEx has it, blah blah don�t call here again because no one will help you. Sent an email telling them that I don�t think I�ve ever had service this bad and basically asking what the f**k is going on out there, no reply�..big surprise I guess. Absolutely useless company these days. I don�t know if they changed hands or what. What a difference a year makes. Time to find a new supplier I guess, I just can�t stand dealing with incompetent people. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 212 Registered: 7-2002 |
Coil per plug. I'm using Honda 900RR coil sticks using Bosch amplifiers and a Motec 800 to control the work. Motor will be going into my Lancia Stratos replica. Jeff Davison | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 807 Registered: 11-2001 |
Hey Jeff, are those individual spark plug coils? | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 211 Registered: 7-2002 |
Here's a few shots of Mark's "sister" build. It hasn't come quite as far along yet.     Jeff Davison | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 718 Registered: 5-2002 |
Russ, They are stock headers. The stock heat shields weren't in very good condition and all the insulation had fallen to the bottom. So, I cut it off. Then I cut off the test port fittings and welded the holes shut. I double wrapped them wiht 2" header wrap and put a safetywire tie about every 3" and then sprayed them with high temp silver paint. They stay pretty cool now. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 508 Registered: 2-2003 |
Looks great!! I really like the look of the plenum. Noticed your headers are wrapped. Are those stock qv headers and could you comment on how they were prepared? Can't wait to see it run! best Russ | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 717 Registered: 5-2002 |
It�s a little closer. Today was the day I regretted the tight cooling lines�the blower hit the clamp on the center hose and I had to figure out how to turn the clamp out of the way. I got it though and the blower is on for good now I hope. Now I need a belt tensioner, some way to install an Idle Air Control valve and throttle cable, so it�s back to the machine shop.  | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 715 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks guys...it been a lot of work so far. Wade my chassis # is ZFFUA13A8E0050761. Your're welcome to any pics you want and I can give you whatever info you need. shoot me an email. Rob, it is all tighter than I would have perferred, but the hood is where it is. So the blower to manifold adapter is 1.25, the the IC sticks into it by .125" with the full length flow area of .812" x 7". On the manifold side there is a lttle more room, it's 1" x 7".   | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2616 Registered: 10-2002 |
WAY WAY COOL!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Wade Nunez(FortuneMotors) (308nut)
Member Username: 308nut Post Number: 279 Registered: 7-2002 |
mark I would love to document this conversion on my website. it would really add to it. By hte way what is hte chassis #, it looks like my old car Wade www.fortunemotors.com www.308qvregister.com | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 818 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mark, looks great! Does the intake come in 'under' the blower (it must, no)? If so (it's the only way that I can tell from your photos), how much area is there? Love the intercooler. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 507 Registered: 2-2003 |
Wow!! Looks great - but I agree that is one tight package! Those water pipe pieces must have taken a while! That is a lot of work and can tell there was a lot of thought put into it. Looking forward to more photos. Good luck getting it finished! rt | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 714 Registered: 5-2002 |
A little more progress. I'm still hoping it will run this weekend...but it's going to be close. The intercooler is in, it's a copper/nickel alloy... it's supposed to cool as well a an aluminum unti twice the size. The blower is assembled to intake. I'm going to try to get it on the car tomorrow.  The cooling lines and waterpump are install, although I'm pretty sure I'll live to regret packaging it this tight.  | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 703 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ernie, Thanks . It looks like they're using a small, very high speed impeller to make the unit compact, but that doesn't do anything to help it make boost at lower engine rpm. They show the flow ranges each unit works at, and there pretty narrow. It's not something that would install unless it was the only thing that would fit. I think you could make the boost curve perfectly flat by driving the compressor with an ECU controled CV trans. Honda puts a unit about the right size in one of there ATVs. I almost went that way on my car, and even started specing it out, but it didn't seem much better that the screw type compressor and had a lot more parts. I think it would work though. Interesting though. Steven, I'm actually a little west of Philly these days...need to update my profile. I'm still not sure I would take a blower over a turbo for a track car, but if you want to shoot me an email, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. As soon as I finish mine, I promised to do a set-up for a guy with a 308 2Vi who wants 600 hp, so I'm tied up for a couple months if you wanted me to do anything, but I'm happy to give you any information I have...of course I'd expect a ride in it [email protected] | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 795 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mark their website is: http://www.a-s-a.de/ The english pages don't have anything in english. So your gonna have to click on the german one. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 602 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mark, I'm not that far from Glens Falls. Can I drop off the 360 Challenge for an extra 200 bhp? I really need it. I congratulate you on that great job on your car. Must be great to be an engineer. i wouldn't know where to start. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 699 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks for the kind words..you shamed me in to going out and cleaning the valve covers which look awful next to the new intake (plus I seem to have lost the gaskets I bought to install it, had to order new). I'm thinking it will run next weekend at the current pace. Edward, I've seen at that pic, I like it. I bet it's a blast to drive..I just love the sound of a blow-off vavle opening on shifts....I miss that about the blower. Ernie, do you have a link for ASA? I searched but couldn't find anything, I like to see it. I know the paxton units have a gearless drive that slips at 5-8 psi depending on oil, so they can overdrive the blower a bit to get the boost in earlier. I've also seen pop-off valves installed that limit the boost, again so the blower can be driven faster to get the boost in sooner. My old roots set-up made about 5 psi off idle (about 190 ft-lbs torque @2000 rpm) with 10 psi around 3500. In normal driving, I found myself shifting at about 4000 most of the time because it just pulled so well down low. The new one should have about the same shape boost curve...just more, so 10 psi off idle and 20 around 3500. | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 369 Registered: 2-2002 |
Mark, You are a metal master. .. . The thermostat housing is like a blacksmith creation from the middle ages. . . pure craftsmanship. Yes Turbos are a little more gentle, but you will have more torque. .that's what all Ferrari's lack. See my NORWOOD set up below.  | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 794 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mark that could pass for stock. But I remember how Frankestein-ish it looked when you first started. It really has come a long way from when you started. As for the centrifugal supercharger, there is a company called ASA. They use a tubro type impeller that starts making the power sooner. So instead of waiting until 6,000 rpm before the boost really comes on, their blower has the boost available at around 2,500rpm and it is at full boost around 4,500rpm. I would rather super charge with a centrifugal because they are small and can be placed easier. I have thought about a turbo, but I really don't like the heat they generate. If all else fails I my go the way of the bottle. I hear you can't get an easy 100hp. The down side of that is you have to keep filling it up. But as I said earlier, I really need to finish the engine out major before I even think of doing anything else. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 486 Registered: 2-2003 |
Very well done - that engine will be a work of art! Looks terrific! | ||
| Ben Mayron (Benmayron)
New member Username: Benmayron Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2003 |
Superbe ! | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 596 Registered: 9-2002 |
NNNNIIIIIICCCCCCEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 696 Registered: 5-2002 |
I ask you, is it possible to not love red wrinkle paint??   | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2003 |
Yes Mark, it is finally done. shipped Today!!! (7 months) worth the wait 4 sure!!! I drove it in Dallas, but it was too lean, so we put 52lb injectors that use a second fuel pump above 5psi. I am so happy with it. No lag issues at all smooth power all up the power band. We went through the whole car. Hope it lasts more than the last one!!! We decided not to put the NOS on it. Good luck and Keep up the great work!! | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 694 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ernie, thanks...I'd stay away from centrifugal type blowers, they have ZERO low end boost, an require the same width belt anyway. There is almost always a way to fit a belt, but if there just flat isn't, turbo make hp too...lots of it. Paul, You got yours back? Do you like it???? It has NOS too right? 360 CRANK hp, 304 rwhp @10psi...just like your. The A/F was about 13.2, at 13 it dropped to 300 rwhp. Blowers like to run a little bit leaner than turbos I'm told. The new system should be about 475-520 rwhp. It will have 48 lb/hr injectors, the old ones were 36. Richard...God I hope everything is strong enough...Norwood says they have build 600-800 hp track cars that don't break, but turbo are a little gentler than blowers. Jeff E, thanks, I'm hoping it will be in your league when it's done. | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 420 Registered: 7-2002 |
Nice work, Mark. I'll be watching anxiously. Jeff | ||
| Richard Ham (Hampappy)
New member Username: Hampappy Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2003 |
Mark, looks amazing. A question from someone that doesn't know - Are the standard crank, rods, clutch, transfer gears and the rest of the caboodle strong enough to take the extra power? Or have you strengthened something ? Just interested.. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 93 Registered: 3-2003 |
It was 360 at 10 psi with the roots blower & no intercooler What was the A/F ratio at that setup? 360 rwhp at 10psi is amazing! perhaps too lean? We only got 300 at 10psi with an air/water I/C setup. We had to change injectors, add a fuel pump, to get the proper A/F ratio. 400 ponies now at 15 psi. We deceded to tone it down for engine longevity. Keep up the good work, looks like I will have some competition. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 3097 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ernie, maybe turbo's would be better for the 348 if space around the front and top of the engine are at a premium... If it worked for the 288GTO & F40... | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 793 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mark That setup is bad-ass! I love it man. In my eyes you are doing what many would like to but can't or don't know how. A blown Ferrari that puts out 500-600 ponies is awesome. My hat goes of to you. With your last setup, you were toying with people all the time. Now this thing will really "blow" their minds. Now I know that there are the purists out there that are just sick from the thought of modifying a Ferrari. But lets face it, Stock Sucks. Especially a stock Ferrari. How many times have you gotten punked bye these new "Blown" Mercs, that are putting down roughly 500hp. So what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Absolutely Fabulous Job! No longer will you wonder if that hopped-up Saki rocket is gonna spank your prancing horse. Nor will you slide lower in the seat as that M5, or 996 turbo rolls up on you. Oh man I bet you are gonna get so many good laughs from the looks on their faces after they just had there butts handed to them. Hopefully some time down the road I'll be able to do the same thing to my 348. How ever I think I would have to use a centrifugal type blower, cause there is at best 1/2" clearance at the front of the engine. That and to get the hp figures you have I would also need to change the compression ratio lower than 10.4/1. I wonder how much boost it could handle at it's current compression. Anyway that is way down the road. Right now I have to finish the engine out major before I even think of modifying it. Can't say it enough, Awesome work Mark, Awesome. Keep us posted. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 693 Registered: 5-2002 |
--What power is it supposed to end up with ?-- 550-600 (crank)at 20-24 psi...for now It was 360 at 10 psi with the roots blower & no intercooler. This is a screw type, which does a lot better at higher boost plus the intercooler. I really need to get it running and see where the air temp is, but 20 psi should be fine, 24 will probably work, time will tell. | ||
| Mark Rolf (Markrolf)
New member Username: Markrolf Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2003 |
What power is it supposed to end up with ? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 692 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeff, intercooler fittings are at the anodizer, due back the end of this week or beginning of next. (Jeff's got one too) | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 691 Registered: 5-2002 |
--Looks like a fun project-- well...underestimated might be a better word.... I thought hoses would be simple enough...took all day...and I end up having to cut holes for it.   | ||
| Tyson Hall (Trhall)
Member Username: Trhall Post Number: 347 Registered: 6-2003 |
Looks like a fun project | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 203 Registered: 7-2002 |
We've been busy then! Looks good! Jeff Davison | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 690 Registered: 5-2002 |
Biggie size fuel pump and line.     | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 689 Registered: 5-2002 |
Move the oil filter, add oil cooler and IC hoses to the manifold.    | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 688 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here's a few pics of the intercooler stuff going in. I ran 1" hose, it should flow about 15 gpm to the heat exchangers that are going in front of the front wheels.     |