| Author | Message | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 211 Registered: 7-2003 |
I don't think many Ferrari owners are interested in beating the FastnFurious boys. Those cars are incredible and have a place in society, but are incomparable to the Ferrari philosphy. Equally, most standard new cars with any more than 2 litres will kick 308 ass, but who cares?? In my experience, there are many things Ferrari do when building their cars that can be done better....but, there are many things which really are very well designed if not that well executed. Most things "engine" are very good. The cold air/ram effect is one of those things that Ferrari understand very well, and I would not try to tell them differently. Like all production cars, there is room for improvement, but how much?? | ||
| Robert Johnson (Carb308)
New member Username: Carb308 Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2001 |
I visit this site often but don't post very often because of all the experts. This thread got my goat though. My 308 had the individual K&N's when I bought it. I put the stock air box on so it will pass the dreaded CA smog visual and cooler air is better. Here is the reality though. The 308 carb cars, stock, on a good day put out about 250 HP at the crank. My 350Z is up to 300 at the crank with a few mods. I got blown off by a '99 or 2000 M3 while in my Ferrari. A Honda S2000 or Boxster S would be a real challange if you check the math. A Subaru WRX would make a stock 308 driver cry. So hers's the point; Loosing or gaining a few HP is not going to matter unless you are matching lap times at a club event. So who cares what air filter set up you are running? You clowns flame each other over making or loosing a few HP in 20+ year old technology that may or may not keep up with what is at the next stop light, come on! Enjoy your Ferrari for what it is. Lighten up on each other or there might be a GT3 or Z06 at the next light! | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1701 Registered: 4-2002 |
I tried putting a pressure gauge in the airbox of my GT4. At 100mph, I could just barely detect the needle moving. It did seem to provide some pressure, but it was below the 1/8psi or so minimum graduation on the meter. However, I do consider this a positive. Some ill-designed ductwork can create a 'dead zone' or even suck the air out! At least in this application it appears that a good supply of fresh air is entering the air box. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1146 Registered: 4-2002 |
"At high speed (100mph) the air forced into the stock air box would seem to be great causing forced air induction." Ram air is a myth; cold air does 90% of the work (gain). With a perfectly designed inlet duct, one can achieve a 0.15 lb pressure rise at 100 MPH over the 14.7 PSI of sea level air pressure. A converging cone is the worst kind of inlet duct for attempting to utilize ram air--yet the most used profile of ducts claiming to deliver ram air. A diverging duct into a big air box is the only real kind of duct that can deliver ram air to an air intake system. F1 cars in the Niki Lauda days could achieve 5-8 more HP at 200 MPH than less well ducted cars could achieve. Ref: "The art and science of grand prix racing" Niki Lauda. Reducing the air inlet temperature by 10 degrees obtains far more power than all the ram air you can shake a fist at can deliver. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 540 Registered: 2-2003 |
The thing that caught my attention in the photo was the itsybitsy K&N filter on the air/oil seperator on the rebreather line. Pretty cool. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 330 Registered: 2-2002 |
I think some cars Muira, Urraco had a stock set up simmilar to the posted photo. Richelson, I a curious when you did the dyno more than likely the engine wasn't benifiting from the ram air effect of the stock set up. At high speed (100mph) the air forced into the stock air box would seem to be great causing forced air induction. Of course I am the first to agree you should do what you want. Although I strive for authenticity I have the QV wheels, mmom racing wheel etc. It is important for me though to hang on to all my parts so if the next caretaker of my car wants to do something different. Respectfully, Rob | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 199 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yep. Sorry. You're right. He didn't ask for anything other than a part number. I'll just shut up and let him spend his time and money any way he likes. Sorry Richy. Spend away. | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 281 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dave, I believe the first one to spout his mouth was Phil: "The individual filter set up is for poseurs with little mechanical understanding........" While Richelson shouldn't be calling people names, I think the content of Phil's post wasn't exactly F-chat friendly either... "You will however get fumes of both engine breather and fuel evaporation coming into the cabin, loss of power and torque, increased fuel consumption, excessive cranking times in hot conditions etc etc...but hey, doesn't it look good under the bonnet....not!" Even if Phil is exactly right on everything, Rich wasn't looking for a lecture on the topic, simply a part number. | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 603 Registered: 4-2001 |
John, #1. He could have just as easily picked up the phone and called K&N. #2. He did not mention that he was still using 40DCNF carbs. #3. When you call your fellow FChaters Bitches they tend to no longer want to offer help. | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 280 Registered: 1-2002 |
Is this website turning into "FerrariFlamers.com"? I don't recall him asking for the technical advice that most have seemed to bestow upon him. The guy asked a simple question, and yet he gets all the negative consequences of putting the K&N's on his engine. I mean it is his car isn't it? Do we really want this website to turn into one like all the rest of the adolecent minded flame throwing sites? | ||
| spanky mcdoogle (Spanker)
New member Username: Spanker Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2003 |
Don't forget to put that K&N sticker on the back window. I've did that on my Enzo and have a "Type R" emblem on the rear valence, as well. | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 195 Registered: 7-2003 |
Do I need to repeat my "each to his own" disclaimer. Richy Rich boy, You can stick any future tips from me up your velocity stacks, with a wish of good luck along the way. Enjoy your Ferrari any way you want, but don't knock back advise when fishing for it. I hope to one day be at a track day with you, with a lesser prepared car and wipe your nose in the lap time disgrace you have brought upon yourself. Ciao for now. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 326 Registered: 2-2002 |
Guys, I dont want to take sides here as each to his own, and many think the stock K&N is wrong, ( I am sporting one) but I do know Phil is a respected Ferrari and racing mechanic and having seen his resume woud not dismiss his input. Respectfully, Rob | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 279 Registered: 1-2002 |
Richelson, don't listen to these guys, just do it! The part # is #56-1120 from the K&N website. The velocity stacks that come off the original air box go back on inside the K&N air filters to hold down the bottom plate to the carb. FYI, you can make an air scoop that fits over your original air induction port that blows cold air from outside directly to the carbs. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 893 Registered: 12-2001 |
Nice link. Just what I was looking for. Carb 308s use 40DCNFs. Strange since my dyno #'s show different. Reminds me of the floor mat thread. Post some dyno #'s for under these circumstances. Most people have no idea where there car is lacking until they get to a dyno or if they ever get there. Too many variations to name but I will say a gain is a gain no matter how you look at it. If you disagree see how many people lose their belt for their smog pump for 1-2hp gain max while doing more harm then good. Case Closed •••••. | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 599 Registered: 4-2001 |
It could be a couple of part numbers.... How about you go to www.knfilters.com/Racing/customcarb.htm and see which one you need for your carbs, since your car has "ported heads, XR700s, etc." . and etc. could be DCNF42s, or 44s, or IDA 48s... which would be a different part number. By the way, I know you could care less, but don't you think that in the last 28 years maybe more than a few 308 owners have been down this road before, and have Dyno numbers to back this up? Or are they all bitches too? | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 892 Registered: 12-2001 |
Answer the ?'s. I agree. I am not the one who started it. Phil I hope you read these posts. Part # please. | ||
| James I. Movich (77_308gt4)
New member Username: 77_308gt4 Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2003 |
you guys just need to stop talking. this is not the place to do anything but ask and receive technical advice, not argue and judge others. take it offline. but i do like the cool red dots....LOL | ||
| spanky mcdoogle (Spanker)
New member Username: Spanker Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2003 |
Richelson, Although the good man Phils' tone may be a little bit off...cold air makes more HP than hot engine compartment air. Other than the Ricers, no one draws air from inside a hot engine compartment. I think you need a bit of "••••• slappin" yourself! | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 811 Registered: 3-2001 |
I have thought about porting heads before. Did you notice a large difference? Sorry to get off topic. Just curious. The philosophy of the great unwashed those who don't own Ferraris. I am not fond of this mentality. Rich you know better than that. I am speechless. You bought a 308 and want to put K&Ns on it. How could you? Why do what you want to your own car. I would enjoy seeing Phils view on people who purchase a Ferrari but don't know what a spark plug is. When you buy a Ferrari you should automatically know how to rebuild the engine otherwise you have no business purchasing what you enjoy, right? | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 890 Registered: 12-2001 |
Again I disagree. Does anyone have a part # for these or not? Everything you stated IMO is incorrect especially not knowing my 308. Actually I gained 2 hp from removing it. I ran 199RWHP with airbox on and 201 RWHP without it. This is with no emissions, ported heads, XR700s, etc. Your point about the crank case is useless if you have crank vents. Again why do you think you know it all. Do you have to be such a dumbshit. Can you just answer the question. No hard starting hot either. I would say if you have hard starting hot then the carbs aren't tuned to the conditions you are running. I tend to believe the Dyno over your opinion. If you have the damn part # post otherwise •••• Off!!!! Bitches like you ruin Ferrari Chat you. | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2003 |
You're mad to dismiss the airbox ram effect and cold air intake system. The individual filter set up is for poseurs with little mechanical understanding........but each to his own...... You will however get fumes of both engine breather and fuel evaporation coming into the cabin, loss of power and torque, increased fuel consumption, excessive cranking times in hot conditions etc etc...but hey, doesn't it look good under the bonnet....not! | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 889 Registered: 12-2001 |
I know what you are saying, I have told others the same thing as this has been brought up on FC since 2001 but I disagree. I don't like the stock airbox never have. I am interested in the part #? Please post it if you have it. | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 598 Registered: 4-2001 |
While they look cool and sound fantastic, they also contribute to a 7hp loss from stock numbers on a dyno due to the car having to breath hot air directly from the engine bay. A better solution would be to get the K&N replacement filter for the stock airbox, part # E-2930 which will give you a 4hp increase over stock. After all, if your only putting 180hp to the pavement, 11hp is alot to throw away. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 888 Registered: 12-2001 |
Yes, those are them. I may want to get a thinner version but that is it. Thanks. Do you have a part #? | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 277 Registered: 1-2002 |
Is this what you're looking for?  | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 886 Registered: 12-2001 |
Does anyone have the part # for this model air filter. Also can the air horns fit in the filter housing? |