| Author |
Message |
DGS (Dgs)
Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 366
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 7:24 am: | |
All systems are very reliable ... until they break.
My Alfa Spider is an earlier model, with the Spica mechanical injection. For the first 10-15 years, everyone used to say the Spica systems were "bulletproof". But once they started to break, most people find it easier to switch to carbs than to repair a Spica pump.
In military systems, we deal with two reliability figures. CIS systems would score quite well on MTBF - Mean Time Between Failures.
But on MTTR -- Mean Time To Repair -- the Bosch systems would score miserably. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 10:43 pm: | |
A great book that explains the K-Jetronic system and it's varients such as the KE-Jetronic that has lambda control using excellent diagrams:
BOSCH Fuel Injection & Engine Management by Charles O. Probst
Its worth reading even if you're going to have someone else work on your system as it'll help you understand their diagnosis. It's not Ferrari specific, but all the K-Jet systems are extremely similar so everything's readily recognizable.
It also describes the other BOSCH FI systems including the pulse injection L-Jetronic & Motronic that have been widely licensed & used.
A lot of great info in one book.
It's available from Amazon, and usually there are 2 or 3 copies available on eBAY.
|
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 1315
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 8:20 am: | |
I would agree with the bullet-proof statement.
I have only owned one car since 1985 that has not had either the simple Bosch K or KE inj system (and that car is an Alfa Spider with the Bosch L).
Between 4 cars and with a combined total milage of nearly 400,000 miles over the last 18 years under every possible condition, I have never, ever had one single problem with that FI system. Not once. I am walking proof of their reliability and durability. Parked outside my office right now is (one of) my VW Scirocco with 124K and the KE system. The reason it works so well is because it is so simple. |
DGS (Dgs)
Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 362
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 6:04 am: | |
I know this sounds weird, but try to find someone with Porsche/VW/Audi experience.
Ferrari only used CIS/K-Jet on a few models, relative to the number using EFI or carbs. Mechanics who deal exclusively with Ferraris have limited experience with CIS. I had one Ferrari mechanic tell me that CIS systems "are bulletproof". A VW/Audi mechanic would laugh himself silly over that one.
Ferraris with CIS, for the most part, have relatively few miles, compared to VWs with CIS. It's possible that a Ferrari mechanic has never seen one go bad ... yet. But the CIS Ferraris getting up there in miles and years, now. And it generally isn't the CIS distributor itself. It's all the bells and whistles that go with a CIS system -- aux air valve, control pressure regulator, fuel accumulator, etc.
Try entering "CIS" and a few descriptive words from your symptoms into your favorite search engine. You can get some hints about CIS issues from Audi, BMW, etc., web forums.
Have you checked your exhaust gasses? (Does your state have emission testing?)
Have you checked that the cold start injector isn't leaking? |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 745
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 6:01 am: | |
Stephen and Barney, 8-10 is awful. Mine gets about 18....with a blower on it.....I think they both need to be looked at. |
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 88
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 4:12 am: | |
The car starts immediately when cold and it is a wee bit hestitant when warm. It never bogs and rev's smoothly right to red line. The fuel filter was changed approximately 2,500 miles ago. I did have problems with the idle warm-up but that is now fixed thanks to advise from FerrariChat members. It sounds like I would be better off taking the car to someone with the tools and experience to do this correctly.
As always, thanks for the help.
Steve Schroeder |
Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member
Username: Trinacria
Post Number: 487
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 11:24 pm: | |
Hi Tom |
Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member
Username: Trinacria
Post Number: 486
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 11:22 pm: | |
Stephen
8 is not terrible. I get about 9-10 and I am running a little rich on purpose right now. Anyway, consult the workshop manual and also take a look at the link below - it is really good! I don't know how much you know about the system but the K jetronic is pretty basic for the most part.
http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm |
Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member
Username: Tbakowsky
Post Number: 670
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 10:45 pm: | |
Color tune will not work too well on an injected car. Mainly because of the fact that the injection system is metered by pressure by a single fuel distributor for all cylinders. It sounds to me like you may have a fuel pressure problem (pretty obvious I know).But you have to determinde which part of the system is causing it. This can be tricky if you don't know the in's and out's of the system. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge set for CIS injection systems? If not then maybe you could borrow one, or purchase one from a automotive tool supplier. They are expensive for a good one though.
How does the car start when it's hot/cold?
does the car hesitate at all? (bogging etc.)
Does the car have a long crank time hot/cold?
If you could give us a little bit more info on things that seem out of the ordianry maybe we could point you in the right direction. |
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 87
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 9:20 am: | |
Gentlemen:
I believe my 82 308 is running rich. I say this because it gets terrible mileage (approx 8 MPH) and the plugs are black - as they would be if the car was running rich. Does anyone have experience with the "how-to" books on Bosch fuel injection? I've read mixed reviews on other web sites. Finally, for those of us who have graduated from British SU carb vehicle there is a tool called a "Color Tune". Basically it is a clear spark plug which allows actual combustion to be viewed. The idea is to tune the car by color of the combustion. Might this work with the Bosch FI or should I let someone else set the injection?
Thanks in advance.
Steve Schroeder |