| Author |
Message |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 4:13 pm: | |
there is no company that can effectively properly re map these engines unless you spend at least 7K on getting dyno work and one of three companies in europe that can do it,
these companies are NOT the likes of superchips et al, all they are doing is playing with the basic parameters,
If anyone intends to keep their 355 they should NOT remove the cats in tyhe longer term the parameters are not being met. |
eli (ali) Latif (Ninja_eli)
Junior Member
Username: Ninja_eli
Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 6:06 am: | |
removal of cats of my car seemed to reduce torque earlier on, but the engine revved freely higher up in the rev band. I know of another 355 that has had the ecu remapped and now his decat 355 tubi runs as quick as a 360...
I preferred the drive of the 355 with cats in for slow traffic etc as there was much more torque, but it was not as intense as the decat tubi, which sounded wonderful and really screamed. What a car!
Overall, I'd say do the test pipes, save your cats for when you sell on, because you'll only have to change them anyway if you are going to keep the car for any period of time. |
Rick (Bromers)
New member
Username: Bromers
Post Number: 39
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 7:14 am: | |
Have you looked at putting a challenger grille on to lower the temperatures ? |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 47
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 3:26 am: | |
salman
reference your last post about your doubts regarding the ability of your mechanics to alter the parameters of the ECU if you removed cats.
Thats just the point, there are probably only 3 concerns in the world capable of modifying these ECUs and NONE of tose are the chip boys that sell a chip for every car. To do it properly would cost $1000ssss
Although we all want lower temps, to remove them is a mistake, and it gets very noisy without cats and a tubi- some like it though! |
Salman Hussain (Arezzo)
New member
Username: Arezzo
Post Number: 21
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 1:52 am: | |
Thanks Guys for the great posts. Especially Mitch for really clearing what the Test Pipes are used for and how it is used.
So I'll stick with the Cats instead of going for the Test Pipes. Although I would love to get test pipes because it helps reduce the heat in the engine bay. But I don't think the Ferrari mechanics here in Q8 are that capable to get the computer to deliver the right mixture with the Test Pipes and when we get down to the really technical stuff the chances of them screwing up increases. So I'll stick with the KISS principle.
I've pretty much narrowed down my list to Tubi or Capristo as far as the exhaust system goes. Tubi is a time tested tradition when it comes to Ferraris whereas Capristo seems to be the new kid on the block but from what I've been hearing with amazing potential.
Lets see which way it goes.
Thanks Again |
P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member
Username: Ferrari_fanatic
Post Number: 627
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 7:41 pm: | |
Dave, much agreed. The Tubi with cats sounds great. The Tubi with test pipes goes from superb sounding, to obnoixious/smelly in 4.2 seconds. |
Dave Tegeler (Aeroengineman)
New member
Username: Aeroengineman
Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 6:11 pm: | |
correction to my last post - DON'T BOTHER WITH THE TEST PIPES - YOU'LL LOVE THE TUBI WITH THE CATS. |
Dave Tegeler (Aeroengineman)
New member
Username: Aeroengineman
Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 6:07 pm: | |
I wouldn't trade the sound I get from the Tubi system on my F355 Spider for anything. IT HAS THE BEST COMBINATION OF RUMBLE AND WINE without being too noisey of any I've heard. The Tubi- sound is worth whatever you have to pay for it on the F355. It makes the car. Accept no substitutes! |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 5:43 pm: | |
"Can I install the Test Pipes without removing the Cats or is that impossible or makes the whole effort pointless?"
The test pipes replace the cats in the exhaust system. Either put in the cats or put in the test pipes. The Oxygen snesor(s) and/or thermocouples are threaded into the test pipe or threaded into the cat.
Test pipes will reduce the heat load in the engine compartment because cats release a lot of energy (heat) when converting unburnt fuel into (reletively) harmless gasses.
If you can get the computer to deliver a nice stable mixture with test pipes, you should find no loss in HP, but don't expect any useful gains on an F355. |
Salman Hussain (Arezzo)
New member
Username: Arezzo
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 3:04 pm: | |
Guys thank you for the great posts. All I can say I've learnt alot from all of you especially Stephs and Gordo's posts.
So the gist of it all is that getting Test Pipes might lead to loss of power and ecu problems on the 355.
Or
is it that removing the Cats will lead to a loss of Power and ECU problems?
Can I install the Test Pipes without removing the Cats or is that impossible or makes the whole effort pointless?
My Target is to make my engine breath easier and bring the engine bay temperature down. Plus get a great soundtrack whenever I put my top down :-)
I just want to know what are the potential problems or benefits I can expect if I have a Tubi exhaust system installed coupled with Test Pipes on a 1999 355 Spider. |
P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member
Username: Ferrari_fanatic
Post Number: 625
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 11:58 am: | |
The 348 Cats are DEFINITELY more restrictive than the 355 cats. The 355 cats are a "Brick" type cat so there is virtually no restriction. On the 355 the HP increase will me anywhere from none to nominal (Appx. 3 BHP).
The 348 owners have ALL reported an increase in throttle response and performance. The 355 owners have all reported little or no performance difference (or loss).
These subjective "Hunches" have been validated by dyno tests.
So in a sense you are both right: 348=better performance (because of more restrictive cats). 355=no performance gain and a great likelyhood of loss of torque.
|
Gordo A. (Gordo)
Junior Member
Username: Gordo
Post Number: 217
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 11:34 am: | |
For me I had spent over a �1,000 repairing cracked manifolds and rattling heatshields. I would imagine they improved the design considerably on the 355 but on the 348 it was an endless problem. Nothing like driving around in the car sounding like a tractor...
Like I say, power? who knows but the dyno should give us an indication. |
Rick (Bromers)
New member
Username: Bromers
Post Number: 36
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 11:31 am: | |
How do get around getting an MOT with the test pipes on ?
If I'm understanding this correctly - instead of putting a whole exhaust system on, just change the cats to a test pipe and that will improve things (sound/temperature) ? How easy are they to fit - is it a job you can do yourself ? |
1987 Jerry (Slag_328gts)
Member
Username: Slag_328gts
Post Number: 258
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 11:30 am: | |
Informative posts -
What effect does removing the cats & replacing with test pipes have on emmissions? Does it create a problem come smog test time?
Thanks |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 46
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
oh I am not doubting you!
I think on the 348 there would be a difference and removing them helps the huge heat retention problem.
Its interesting though, ive just been chatting to my friend who did the development work for the noble and a few Aston projects as well and on a dyno, with the latest cats it seems its better to keep them. It also intersting that if one removes the cats ona P 996 the car moves into limp home mode, so those need OBD2 replicators.
When I removed the cats on mine for an experiment the car seemed to rev easier for sure but I would prefer to know that the engine was running to the required ECU criteria (not running weak at high revs as we experienced)
I replaced my manifolds with Tubi ones but even with standard, doing a reasonable mileage a year I think I wold prefer to pay to have them repaired than the bill one would get from weak running at high RPM |
Gordo A. (Gordo)
Junior Member
Username: Gordo
Post Number: 216
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 10:58 am: | |
Stephen,
Fair comment perhaps the improvement is all in my head but having driven the car for two years prior I don't think so.
I am having the car dyno'd in the next week I will post the results.
From the factory it was allegedly 320 bhp so we will see if the improvement is fact or fiction.
Incidently my reason for going ahead was the heatshields rattling loose. I did not anticipate or expect to feel or hear a difference but I did. |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 44
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 10:47 am: | |
interesting last post.
Herewith my expereibce of 355.
On a rolling road using a tubi compared to standard (but with cats) there was about 1 or 2 BHP difference although this was not uniform throughout the range.
When th cats were removed we actually lost power and the instruments indicated that the ecu was simply not putting the correct values as the cats were removed and this information has been validatedv by many on here.
I think in the case of the 348 the earlier cats may be more restrictive, and removing them will help temerpature. As to ant claims of huge power improvement, i wonder!! |
Gordo A. (Gordo)
Junior Member
Username: Gordo
Post Number: 215
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 10:29 am: | |
I know this is in relation to the 348 but I believe it is still relevent on the 355. When I was looking to go testpipes on mine I got in contact with the dealer here in the UK, below is the main thrust of the deal:
First thing - the reason the heat shields on the 348 are going are becuase of an inherent design flaw in the 348 (and indeed 355) series - TOO MUCH TEMPERATURE.
Basically, the cats are tooo bloody close to the engine - they've been put there by Ferrari to retain as much temperature as is possible immediately from start-up. Cats are useless at low temperatures so in order for the car to be homologated "from the off" Ferrari stuck them right up next to the engine so the Platinum honeycomb can reach operating temperature immediately.
This close positioning of the cats to the engine pushes temperatures in the entire exhaust system sky high - this has the effect of causing the manifold to expand under the heat (during hard usage) and then contract on cooling - this leads to the inevitable cracking. You can re-weld/repair the heat shield forever, it will NEVER solve the problem.
Suggestion 1: To prevent the problem re-ocurring:
First thing I suggest - (I' don't know whether you car is running the Ansa Challenge "muffler" or not but this is irrelevant (GTC specification is a little difficult to pin down)) - if your car runs cats then BIN THEM NOW... fit some Tubi Test PIPES.
When we began selling them, 348 owners would come to us because their cats had gone, they had ECU problems (Soo common), they're manifolds had cracked, they were getting warning lights... The problem with all of this were the cats on the 348 - they're too restrictive, back up exhaust flow too much and get far too hot (becuase they've been placed to close to the engine to get hot quickly to homologate the car from idle)- This damages the ECU, wrecks the manifold, reduces power, and strangles the sound... getting rid of them with test pipe, triggers no warning lights and we are increasingly recommending it to 348 owners as a precautionary measure to be finally rid of these problems.
As installing testpipes results in removal of the cats and simply 'straight' pipes running from the exhaust manifold to the muffler I am sure that like the 348 these are aftermarket...
I have made no change to the muffler but have got both tremendous power and sound improvement. Best purchase I ever made for the car, my opinion anyway!
Gordo
|
Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 3411
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 6:54 am: | |
SALMAN
PROBABLY HENRYK OR MR DOODY OR ART CHAMBERS HERE ON F-CHAT WOULD BE YOUR BEST BET
YOU CAN ALSO GO TO "SEARCH" ON THE BOTTON OF THE PAGE AND PUT IN "TEST PIPES ON A 355"
GOOD LUCK,
BRUCE |
Salman Hussain (Arezzo)
New member
Username: Arezzo
Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 6:51 am: | |
Thanks Bruce for the great site. If you know someone that can educate a philistine like me regarding Test Pipes then drop me a line.
Regards |
Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 3409
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 6:26 am: | |
http://www.ferrari-f355.tk/
TRY THIS SITE..THIS GUY IS CRAZY ABOUT 355s AND INTERESTING
GOOD LUCK,
BRUCE |
Salman Hussain (Arezzo)
New member
Username: Arezzo
Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 6:21 am: | |
Hi Guys,
I think I'm going to ask a very dumb question so bear with me. I have no clue when it comes to these things.
Does the 355 come with Test Pipes installed from the factory or are installed as an aftermarket add on?
Where is it located in the engine? What does it do exactly (I mean whats the purpose of it)
And more importantly when the test pipes are installed (or are there) coupled with an aftermarket exhaust system does it bring the engine temperature down?
Very important to me especially in the summers here in Q8. I think guys in Houston or Arizona can sympathize with me.
Thanks |