| Author | Message | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 334 Registered: 2-2001 |
William, no Hoist is required. I attached the dolley to the subframe as shown on the pictures. The two metal loops grab on to the Y members at the bottom of the subframe just to maintain the two together while in the air, and just in case they want to become separated when I move the subframe on the floor. To clarify this, let me discuss the craddle construction steps and car lifting procedure: a. Get the front of the car lifted and onto the supporting platforms to hold car in place and to provide clearance for front spoiler. b. With the rear tires still on the floor of the garage, slide dolley under car to measure clearance between dolley and subframe support points (Y members in front of subframe). This measurement determines how much wood needs to be added for direct support of the subframe by the dolley (now a cradle). c. Build the cradle, and place again under the car once the car is ready to be separated from the subframe. I added a 1/4" plywood at the bottom of cradle to provide additional support upon separation and to eliminate any slack or freeplay. d. Disconnect the last few bolts. At this point, in theory the cradle is holding the front weight of the subframe since the rear tires are still in place. e. Using two hydraulic jacks, one on each side of the car. Start lifting the body to commence separation. (I lifted the car by the rear jack support points). This is were you have to be extra careful that nothing was left plug and that the body is not taking any parts with it on its way up. For safety reasons, as soon as you have enough room under the car, place jack stands under the body in case your hydraulic jack(s) fails (I placed the stands under the chassi just behind the gas tanks, see pictures below). Hence, lift with the jack, and continue readjusting the height of your stands to allow for minimum separation between body and the top of your stands. f. Continue lifting until you have enough clearance to roll subframe backwards under the rear end of body. You will need a hydraulic jack that can lift at least 20" to clear the rear fender inner walls. This is the procedure that I followed. It could be VERY DANGEROUS !!! if you don't take the necessary precautions. I do not recommend, or endorse, anybody doing this, I am just stating what I did. Since I did this by myself, it took longer because I had to go around checking and readjusting things constantly. With two or more people, I am sure it can be done quicker. | ||
| William Henderson (Billh)
New member Username: Billh Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2002 |
Arnold, Thanks for posting! I plan on doing the same thing this winter. (it will give me a good 4 months to take my time). I had thought on purchasing a lift to do mine in order to get the clearance I need to roll the motor out from the car. I have already the platform; a large pallet with four large casters. two questions: first, how did you drop the engine with an engine hoist? did you use straps around the underside of the sump? what were the pick-up points? and second: how high did you have to lift the car once the engine was on the ground? what structural member did you grab to pick the car up? | ||
| Matt Boyd (Mattboyd)
New member Username: Mattboyd Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2002 |
I love this thread.... I did have to post one amusing thought I had as I perused the photos. The one with the engine/subframe assy made me think about putting two little wheels in front of it, a seat on the rear, and a blade underneath. What could be a cooler lawnmower than that!?!?! ;-) -matt | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 320 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ernest, I appreciated the enthusiasm, but I would not feel qualified to write a book or technical document. On the other hand, I am taking notes and photos, and I am hoping that I can describe my experience with this job through those. | ||
| Ernest Riggen (Ernest)
New member Username: Ernest Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2002 |
Arnaldo - You are my hero. I plan on doing the same thing to mine during the 2003 Winter. I suspect that if you take enough notes, and enough photos, there is a book waiting to written, published, and sold - I for one, would be willing to help and certainly BUY ONE! Ernest. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 318 Registered: 2-2001 |
Purchased Thermostats from T.Rutlands today for $150.00 plus shipping for the pair. Calculated about 6.5 feet of hose which I will procure locally. I had started another thread to discuss the actual service details: Testarossa 30K Service Phase II Started | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 315 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ben, thanks for reminding me about the Thermostats. A good thing to change due to their location. I wander what else I might be forgetting. I will review the PM carefully to check for maintenance items that should be replaced now due to the complexity of their location as well. Yes, I am also replacing all fluids including brakes and coolant flush. I was taking a tally last night of all hoses/cables/etc. that I disconnected to make sure I do not forget anything on the re-assembly and I listed about 30 different connections, and about 6 or 7 different subsystems that were removed just to get the engine out. I can post the detailed list if anybody is interested. George, I am located North of L.A, Ventura county. The wheels are HRE and I have a receipt of purchase somewhere. I can dig it out if you are still interested in knowing where the rims were purchased. | ||
| Norm Plaistowe (Normp)
Junior Member Username: Normp Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2001 |
Great job, I'm always amazed when one of us takes on a major project like this. I think I might have to sell all my tools so that I won't be tempted to start. Keep the pictures coming. | ||
| Dr. George Petito (Doc18015)
New member Username: Doc18015 Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2001 |
Great work and some great creativity! Love to see this kind of thing. Where are you located? I need to know where those wheels were purchased. Keep us posted. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1853 Registered: 12-2000 |
Holy s--- Arnaldo! You THE man! Congrats! | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 618 Registered: 1-2001 |
Arnaldo, About hoses, they'll all be some size than can be procured from some other place usually BMW/MBZ (not cheap) but maybe you can find a pal with a shop ;) change as many hoses on the front of the engine as you can, think about their age. Altho the hoses to the heater can be replaced with the engine IN the car, so worry about those some other time... When I had my 30k done AT THE DEALER, the auth tech had also fashioned his own shim tools out of other somewhat common, yet odd ball screwdrivers and what-not, at times welding or filing them until they were just right for his needs. There are Ferrari issue tools for this but they are NOT required. In your list of parts I don't see thermostats, you might want to change them and do a coolant change/flush (and oil and brake fluid as well). Not to mention getting that motor a bit cleaner  -Ben | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
New member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2002 |
Fantastic job. I've done the service on my 328 before but did not take the engine out. I'm getting ready to do it again as soon as I locate an oil leak. I'm hoping it is front valve cover. Don't know if your valve shim situation is like a 328 but I was able to get mine out using tools fashioned from cafeteria stainless utensils gound down to fit. I ground down and bent some old screwdrivers as well. It was crude but it worked. Dental picks were used to get the shims out - the oil film is quite strong. I would rotate the crank to open each valve to get the tool in to hold it open by wedging a tool between the cup and camshaft. Once the wedge was in, I'd rotate the engine to get the cam lobe off the hockey puck spacer, then pick spacer out if it needed to come out. Crank is easy to turn with plugs out using a lever on wheel studs (no wheel) with tranny in top gear. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 314 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks for the kind words! Yes, it can be done. Patience is about the only thing that you really need lot of. I suppose that if I were to do it again, it will go a lot quicker since I know the hows, where, and tricks to get it out. Ben, you are correct. Running total so far is about $1000.00 in parts. There are also a few hoses that I see might need replacement, but I am hoping I can replace those for comparable ones at the local auto shop. I might need to buy a Shims removal tool (and some Shims), but I am going to wait until I inspect the valve clearances to make sure I need it. I need to see if those can be rented. Are those standard tools or Ferrari specific? Does anybody know? I contemplated the idea of removing the gas tanks and servicing the belts that way, but after careful inspection, some measurements, parts to remove and overall quality of the job to be done I reached the conclusion that although possible (Big IF!!!) it did not appear to be a great deal of savings in time. In addition, with the engine out everything seems to be so much easier. Part of the reason it took those many hours to get it out was that my WSM and PM were not always clear about where things were, plus the added extra checking I did to make sure I was not letting something still hook somewhere since the anatomy of the car wasn't still fully known. Now that I know were everything is, and how to get at it, next time it should go faster as I hope re-assembly will be (I hope!). Christian, the rims are HRE. | ||
| Christian (Christiank)
Member Username: Christiank Post Number: 321 Registered: 1-2001 |
Great post and pictures. It can be done! Why through all that money at the dealership and get a worse job than doing it yourself? Please keep us posted. Nice rims by the way. Where did you get them? | ||
| Dustin (69912)
New member Username: 69912 Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2002 |
Great photos | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 615 Registered: 1-2001 |
Very good Arnaldo! Keep us up to date (with pics too) of the progress...so the running total is about $1k out of pocket so far, without your (or anyone else's) time taken into consideration if I read that all right... -Ben | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 172 Registered: 5-2001 |
Way to go Arnaldo! You must feel good after quite an achievement by yourself. This will be a very interesting thread to watch. Thanks for blazing the trail for us to see and learn. Joe | ||
| Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
New member Username: Standig Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2002 |
Keep us informed with your progress. This the type of information I enjoy seeing. You are uncovering the Ferrari mystery! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2754 Registered: 2-2001 |
Arnaldo, You're a genius. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 337 Registered: 3-2001 |
Very nice work ! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 313 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well, After a year of ownership I decided to go ahead and perform the Major Service on my TR. Purchased Major service parts from T.Rutlands for a total of $888.50 plus shipping including water pump rebuild kit. The breakdown is as follows: a. Fuel Filters (2) = $40.00 b. Air Belt = $8.25 c. Distr. Oil Seal (2) = $83.00 d. O-ring seal (4) = $16.00 e. O-ring seal (4) = $5.00 f. Oil seal CamShft (4)= $30.00 g. W. Pump R. Kit = $44.00 h. Head Gasket Kit = $195.00 i. Tensioner Bearing(2)= $248.00 j. Timing Belt(2) = $82.00 k. Ignition Rotor (2) = $114.00 l. Alternator Belt = $14.00 m. AC Belt = $26.00 In addition, purchased a 1000 Lb. Movers cart for $15.00 to build a cradle that will hold part of the weight of the engine. AC Freon extraction and replacement $65.00. Some miscellaneaous parts such as wood, and others probably added up to about another $40.00, and it was time to get started. Built cradle with a 45" long piece of 2"x8", and some pieces of 1/4" plywood, and screws. Formed two metal loops to attach cradle to subframe out of 3' 1/4" zinc treaded rod. This is what it looks like:  After disconnecting all hoses, wiring, etc. I attached the cradle to the subframe in preparation for subframe/body separation (see below).   After a very careful session lifting the body and checking for parts/lines/etc. in danger of damage I finally got the body and subframe separated. The only issue here was the timing belt cover rubbing against the housing of the radiator fans on the right side. Clearance was practically zero. Needless to say, I lifted very little and went around and did a lot of checking, and so on, for about 2 to 3 hours. One more thing that was troublesome were the bolts surrounding the rear shocks had a tendency to hold the subframe attached to the body, but with some careful work I got them separated. I left wheels in place so that the wheels and cradle make a three point support for the subframe and can be easily moved around.   I prepared a cradle, or support, for the front tires to allow greater clearance for the front spoiler when lifting the car.  After approximately 15 to 18 hours of single handed work the engine is finally out, and it is time to start Phase II (actual servicing and parts replacement).  |