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Message |
Kds (Kds)
Junior Member
Username: Kds
Post Number: 122
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 9:30 pm: | |
Clinton simply "kicked the can" down the road so that NK didn't become a major problem on the watch of a Democratic President...plain and simple....anything else is just window dressing......
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arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member
Username: Art355
Post Number: 2431
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 7:03 pm: | |
Jon & Jim:
I don't think that Clinton screwed up. They made a decision not to deal with North Korea because they felt that if they left things alone, kept giving them money and things that war could be avoided. They knew that N. Korea would cheat, but felt that the only way to stop that would have been to attack. They felt that the cost: approximately 200k dead wasn't worth it. Bush came along, slowed down the light water reactor, N. Korea told us to F ourselves, restarted their reactors, and are now actively engaged in creating saleable weapons. Who knows which way was right, because we never followed through on the orignal plan, nor do we now have the capacity to attack N Korea because of Iraq.
Art |
Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jim_schad
Post Number: 1740
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 7:40 am: | |
I don't really think anyone disagrees that these other countries need to be dealt with. the question is "how". As the article says...Iraq was doable. Agreed it will or may only get worse or more complicated as time passes, but how to you tell someone to give up their defenses against someone (USA) who they despise?
If we attack, there are reprecussions. If we starve them out politically, monetarily or even physically they will/may threaten to retalliate out of desperation. Or it only gives them stronger resolve.
The american public is not prepared for the tactics needed to win these subliminal wars. Was it you Jon that said we need super secret teams of basically assasins? I agree with that tactic. The bad guys just seem to keep disappearing????? |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 930
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 11:34 pm: | |
James,
I realize now is not the time with Afghanistan and Iraq on the plate. In my previous posts before we went into Iraq I stated numerous times that we were focusing on the wrong target.
Both Iran and North Korea know we are preoccupied and are using this to their advantage.
Regards,
Jon
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Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member
Username: Drstranglove
Post Number: 828
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 11:15 pm: | |
They are not the US.
They are not Great Britain.
That makes them less.
To hell with them both.
DrS |
James (Admiral_thrawn)
New member
Username: Admiral_thrawn
Post Number: 40
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 11:01 pm: | |
Yes, I know the Clinton administration screwed up big time; but that's in the past.
My response was in light of current events; Neither the situations in Iraq nor Afghanistan are particularly under control, and until they are, going head on against two more countries would be perilous. Yes, I agree they should both be dealt with, but not in the immediate future with military force (which is what I assume you implied; correct me if I'm wrong). |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 922
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 5:45 am: | |
We shouldn't even be involved with the Isreal conflict. There will never be peace there as long as both sides fell the other is occupying their land.
I don't understand why we needed to be occupied with Iraq, when the other's pose a bigger threat.
When you are being attacked by three dobermans and a pug, you deal with the pug last!
Jon |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 921
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 5:42 am: | |
James,
When is it advisable? We could have taken bin Laden out in Pakistan when Clinton was in office. He and his adminstration decided against acting. We all know the result of this inaction.
The question remains....do we wait until it is advisable, namely another attack. Al Qaeda may have dirty bombs at best, but we are talking about two countries that have REAL NUCLEAR capability. I'd hate to wait on one of them to hit us, even if as intelligence data shows, could be many years. And we all know now how seriously flawed intelligence data can be.
I am not denying that North Korean, Saudi Arabia, and Iran are easy problems. Far from it! None of them can be looked at in the same light as a relatively light weight problem as Iraq was in terms of a war.
That's not the point. It's not a matter of how easy it will be to confront these folks or how hard a war with them might be, we need to balance the reality of the costs of a confrontation with these countries and look at the consequences.
A Boeing 757 loaded with Jet fuel pales in comparison to a nuclear war head hitting our coast.
Everyone who supported the war with Iraq said we can't afford to wait for them to come at us, yet the two or three biggest threats to us that could pose huge losses on us are not addressed.
The excuse that it's not politically feasible to go after North Korea is the same arguement made about Saudi Arabia.
Mark my words this stance will come back to haunt us if we don't do anything.
Regards,
Jon
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James (Admiral_thrawn)
New member
Username: Admiral_thrawn
Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 5:00 am: | |
Hell, with Afghanistan, Iraq and the chaos of Palestine/Israel, taking on North Korea and Iran at this point in time wouldn't be advisable. But yes, they are real threats...
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Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 917
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 4:40 am: | |
It appears someone with a bit more knowledge about the whole debate than any of us is saying the same thing I have been saying for months...namely that Iran and North Korea are the REAL Threats.
Read former Bush Sr. assitant Secretary of Defense statements at :
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95070,00.html
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
1995 F355 Challenge #23
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