| Author | Message | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 63 Registered: 7-2003 |
here's the print version http://thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1062108610339 | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5888 Registered: 5-2001 |
Paul those stats sound great. I need to get me one of those  | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 636 Registered: 3-2001 |
Here are some amazing stats about top fuel racers: You don't have to be a drag racing fan to appreciate these statistics. Some Interesting Top Fuel Dragster Facts: * One dragster's 500-inch Hemi makes more horsepower then the first 8 rows at Daytona. * Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1-1/2 gallons of nitro per second, the same rate of fuel consumption as a fully loaded 747, but with 4 times the energy density. * The supercharger itself takes more power to drive then a stock 426 hemi makes. * With nearly 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into nearly-solid form before ignition, and cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock. * Dual magnetos apply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. * At stoichiometric (exact) 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture (for nitro), the flame front of nitro methane measures 7050 degrees F. * Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the exhaust stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases. * Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting off it's fuel flow. * If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in those cylinders and then explodes with a force that can blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or blow the block in half. * Dragsters twist the crank (torsionally) so far (20 degrees in the big end of the crank) that cam lobes are ground offset from front to rear to re-phase the valve timing somewhere closer to synchronization with the pistons. * To exceed 300mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. But in reaching 200 mph well before 1/2 track, launch acceleration is closer to 8G's. This exceeds the forces acting on military fighter pilots during all-out ACM's (air- combat maneuvers) or "dogfights", and a pilot, even with a high- pressure G-suit enabled, will still pass out after 3-4 seconds of sustained G-forces at this level. * If all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs $1000.00 per second. * Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have read this sentence. * Top Fuel Engines ONLY turn 540 revolutions from light to light! * The redline is actually quite high at 9500rpm. * To give you an idea of this acceleration, the current TF dragster elapsed time record is 4.477 seconds for the quarter mile. This means that you could be coming across the starting line in your average Lingenfelter powered "twin-turbo" Corvette at 200 mph (on a FLYING START) and the dragster would BEAT you to the finish line FROM A DEAD STOP in a quarter mile distance! | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 794 Registered: 6-2002 |
Nika- 3 something secounds sounds 'about right' to my seat of the pants calculator (proven surprisingly accurate over the years!) That number 'washes' much better than 1.6sec (Top Fuels don't accelerate at 5g anywhere in their run, though they can peak 3-4G at speed when downforce and full throttle can be applied.) As one of your buddies said, what we really need is the full curve. Then it's relatively simple calc. PS: I'm a Road Snob too, and I wanna try it! PPS: You have HUGE balls! (and I say that in the most flattering mannar Best! Ben. | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 59 Registered: 7-2003 |
oh...sorry - my brain still hurts from the previous post of mine.......(sigh) Yes - the owner has had it mid 8's I believe. His son drove the car the next day - in pristine conditions and did his first run 13.99 (insert Nika's giggle here) The day I drove it - the owner had it just under 9. It was slippery and he like I lifted half way down I highly recommend each of you try this experience once.......THIS advice from a former road racing SNOB Nika www.racerchicks.com | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 248 Registered: 6-2003 |
Nika, I can agree with the 60 mph in that time. As I said, you were probably a little slower off the line the first time than you would be now considering the familiariztion run you were able to make in the car. The amount of acceleration made up from 60 mph probably set you back harder in the seat than the initial surge. It would explain why taking 7 seconds to get to 95 is possible. Do you happen to know the best that this particular car has been able to turn when driven by experienced F/C driver who knew the car well? | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 58 Registered: 7-2003 |
You asked for it! BRAIN HURTS... Nika, in a nutshell, the accelleration curve / Time log would have really benefited you, its an easy calculation, (Derivation) to find the dv/dx for Accelleration at 60MPH.. The Slip is only about 30% of the data to get that.. *** Begin Technical Blurb *** The Time Slip (TimeCard) given should be plugged in with Vehicle information in addition to the weights & measures for all parameters. Day conditions, track conditions, wheel diameter will all lead into the 0-60 MPH performance curve. For Example: To calculate the distance travelled in relation to speed, based on the Slip Co-efficient to figure out the distance AND timing to get to 60MPH. I had to know the Vehicle Weight and Horsepower. So I guessed. Normalized vehicle values: Weight = 2759 HP = 400 http://www.bracketracers.com/Tips/CalcETMPH.asp Truth Be known, if the Funny car weighs more than this, then the horsepower goes up in a more-or-less linear fashion. (It's not, but close enough here) For a 3462 Pound Vehicle, and 118 Pounds for Body Mass total = 3580 Horsepower should be ~460-475 range. OK, Instantaneous speed uncorrected for slip is: D = distance in feet T = time in seconds S = speed in miles per hour S = (D/5280)/(T/3600) = (D/T)*(3600/5280) *** This is what I used as the equation for Speed, then added the corrective factor curve. *** It was faster for me to plug in the Slip Co-efficient to match the curves of what I *** Have seen before, and applied it to your slip. Note: All these are calculated guesses. But the above Speed equation as-is does not apply to funny Cars and other High-Torque, High Horsepower, High-Speed systems where the Wheel diameter/cross section themselves change dynamically, in both adhesion, and diameter, and applied Torque in instantaeneous terms. * The exception is Jet Powered vehicles, where the Co-efficient is Simply Rolling Friction Drag, * AeroDynamic Drag, and velocity vs. Thrust which is similar, but has a different curve applied. OK, so the nuts & bolts are based on what I saw in your timecard and the curves applied to the Alcohol-Burning (Nitro-Methanol, or Straight-Blown Ethanol?) Funny-car you drove with no available vehicle parameters applied... I used the Normalized values of 2759lbs, and 400HP. See attached .PDF, it is a snapshot of the EXCEL calculations I made. *** End Technical Blurb. *** Looks like it was ~224 Feet at 3.4 Seconds at 60MPH, I guess for the 0-60MPH timing. DO NOT USE THIS TO FIND YOUR TORQUE., It will be wrong.! | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 246 Registered: 6-2003 |
Nika, The reason I said something like 2 1/2 seconds is because you were at 95 mph at 660 feet. If you hit 60 in 1.65 seconds, it means it took you nearly 6 more seconds to reach 95 mph from 60. Correct me if I am wrong about how you drove off the line. This is how I did the first few times I drove a really fast car at the dragstrip. I was cautious immediately off the line and about the 60 ft point I began to try to really crank it on as I felt in control of the car at that point. From there on out, I tried to keep it straight and pointed toward the other end. If you had reached 60 in 1.6 seconds, and the way an alky f/c accelerates, you should have been at 95 in about 4-4.5 seconds. Like I said, I am quite possibly wrong here but I read that the wheels lifted slightly off the line for you and this required a slight modification from you. It possibly slowed you down until you felt comfortable enough to "let it out". I am envious of your getting to experience this. I drove and open cockpit altered roadster that ran high 8's about 165 mph. A real handful off the line but a very hard charger on the top end. Never had the opportunity to drive a F/C though....Sorta makes your heart beat a little quicker just thinking about it, doesn't it???? | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thanks guys ! After consulting my engineering buddies they came up with a rough formula that came out to a 0 to 60 in 1.65 seconds - looked like a 5.2 G push the guy said too. I still can't get the smile off my face but GEEEEEEEEEZ......what was I thinking? Am I crazy? Art - sorry..didn't mean to snob you - I only had one run...could of had one more but I didn't want to spoil the feeling...I was tooooooo excited to concentrate. I will try again though in Sept. Here is how they put it in the SHORT form: If we use the acceleration rate from the first segment of the run (from 0 to the 60ft marker ) it puts you at a 0 to 60 time of approximately 1.65 sec - - What makes this an estimate is the fact that the acceleration rate of the vehicle is constantly changing (declining ) as the vehicle speed increases. The assumption made is that at the 60 ft marker the vehicle is already in the range of 58 mph so the rate of acceleration would be fairly close up to the 60 mph mark. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 769 Registered: 6-2002 |
Nika- depending on the car and how much ground effect it has, your acceleration may be pretty difficult to calculate. Top Fuel cars can peak acceleration at around 3.5Gees, they do this later in their run actually, when they have airflow over their wings, and can stick much more power. All that said, if you ran an 7sec time over 660 feet, you should have run about a 2.8 sec 0-60 time, give or take. (acording to the skewed nonlin accell equations out there for automobiles and normal gearing ranges.) Like this one I found using google: http://www.teamnabr.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=8 Best! Ben. | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 235 Registered: 6-2003 |
Nika, I wish I could help with that but I am totally ignorant of that aspect of calculations.. I just know that in a F/C, you are accelerating blindingly fast. You were probably hitting 60 mph by 2 1/2 seconds or so. After you learn to really charge off the line, your acceleration times will become even quicker. Imagine that!!! | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 55 Registered: 7-2003 |
Does anyone have the formula of how I can calculate from my time slip my 0 to 60 time? At 60' I show 1.499seconds 1/8 I show 7.041 seconds and am doing about 95mph just there | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 232 Registered: 6-2003 |
Charles, It was fun, wasn't it. I wish I still had my altered. I am impressed with your light skills. Those are excellent times. I amazed with the times being done in pro stock where the difference between a win and a lose is only sometimes .00015 of a second. Those guys reaction times are excellent. My brothers brother-in-law (I think that is correct) was the engine man for Eddie Hills top fuel car for the last 5 years before he retired and Eddie's times always amazed me. A 68 year old man cutting a .01 light in a 4 second 300 mph car. Wow..... | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 231 Registered: 6-2003 |
Art, You have to be very careful about how soon you begin to move. When moving into staging, you watch the tree. At the top on each side are two smaller yellow lights. The first is pre-stage. When this one is illuminated it signals that your front tire is very close to the actual starting beam. You creep forward until the second smaller yellow light is illuminated. If both yellows are glowing, it means you are staged shallow and can move just a fraction quicker since you are leaving about 5 inches of space before the beam is broken. If only the second yellow is illuminated and the top one goes out, it means you are deep staged and are limited in movement time because you are deeper into the light beam and closer to breaking it as soon as you move at all. Almost as soon as both competitors illuminate the second staging light, the yellow start light on the tree comes on and stays on for roughly 1/4 second before the green comes on. Timing is so important here. If you are shallow staged, you can go about 1/2 through the yellow and not trip the beam until the green comes on. If you are deep staged and move that quickly, you will break the beam approximately 1/8 to 1/16 of a second before the green comes on, consequently redlighting and disqualifying yourself. If you wait until the green is on and the other racer has a legally good reaction time, you will be left at the line, ASLEEP. You could beat him in e.t. but if he gets out ahead of you in reaction time, he can still beat you across the finish line. Remember, e.t.(elapsed time) is the time that each car takes to cross the finish line beam after their front tires have broken the starting line beam, not from the time the light turns green. The green just signals a legal time to begin your movement forward toward the finish line. Example: You turn 8.125 et with a reaction time of .578 He turns 8.158 et with a reaction time of .520 You turn an et that is .033 seconds quicker but his reaction time is .058 quicker so he reaches the finish line .025 of a second quicker. At 150 mph finishing speed you are covering 220 feet per second. He crosses the finish line .025 seconds ahead of you or 5.50 feet. Yes, reaction time is very important. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 717 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nika, it sounds like you had a lot of fun. It took me a while to get the whole thing down too. I use to race a form of drag racing they call indexed class. Cars are placed in predetermined indexes or elapsed time slots that everyone in the class is required to stay within. Mine was called Pro-street or 11.90et class. In this type of race all competitors in the class must not go faster than 11.90 sec's in the 1/4 or they "break out" and are disqualified. They can always go slower than 11.90 just not faster. The whole idea is to keep the car as close to that index as possible as the conditions change and get a good reaction time at the tree. It sounds simple but believe me it takes quite a bit of skill to dial the car in and keep it running close to the index as the conditons change throughout the day. The other key element is reaction time as James has pointed out. It can be the difference between winning and losing when two competitors are good at dialing in their cars. I use to get 01's regularly when I was racing and got quite a few 00's as well. The trick is to anticipate the green. I use to get on the gas between the time the last yellow went out and the green came on that way I would already be moving when the green came on. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2444 Registered: 6-2001 |
James: When I was racing, I'd alway start in the following manner: I'd stick around the start finish line when they were starting the other classes. I'd have my stopwatch with me, and I'd time the interval between when the 1 was turned sideways, and when the starter moved the flag. These guys were usually pretty consistent. I'd take the longest time (as long as it was way out of the range) and try to leave about 1 second early. That mean that when the flag did finally drop, I'd just have started moving. Many a time I was first into the first corner using that technique. In drag racing, I think that most of the competitors do the same thing. When the tree starts to light, the start to move. That's how so many of them seem to have incredible reactions. If I had to bet, there all leaving early, but because of reaction time, inerita, etc., it looks like their all superman or women. Art | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2739 Registered: 1-2002 |
Martin, our former Liar in Chief has spoken:  | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5833 Registered: 5-2001 |
A fast babe in a fast car doing fast times and blowing the competition into pieces. On top she is a good looking racer chick. damn, why am I married! I'd like to do that too. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2730 Registered: 1-2002 |
Coupla hours... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5831 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hey, how far is that from Paris, Texas...? | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2724 Registered: 1-2002 |
Yeah....Italy, TX. Just south of Dallas. | ||
| Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 541 Registered: 2-2003 |
A Ferrari monster truck flying over crushed Ferraris. Now I've seen it all. Must have taken place in Italy | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 228 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rob, Check out www.oreillyfallnationals.com if you want to see a real professional drag race. It is held at Texas Motorplex out in Ennis and starts Oct 8th. It is well worth a look. You will be absolutely blown away by the performance of the top fuel dragsters and funny cars. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 6023 Registered: 12-2000 |
Thanks James, everything I wanted to know about drag racing. I would like to take the BMW out one day just to say I did it. | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 226 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rob, Reaction time: The time it takes for your car to break the starting line beam after the green light illuminates. When you read that someone is "caught sleeping" at the line, it means that it took a little to0 long for him to move after the light turned green. ET (Elapsed time): The actual time it takes for your car to cover the distance (1/8 or 1/4 mile) from the time your car breaks the starting line beam til it crosses the finish line beam. If two cars being equal, both run a 8.10 sec. ET, the one with the quicker reation time will cross the finish line first even though their ET's are the same. If both were running 120 mph at the finish line, they would be covering 172 feet in one second. If one got a 1/10 second quicker reaction time, he would be crossing the finish line 17.2 feet (or somewhere there about) ahead of the car that was "caught sleeping" at the line. Reaction time is huge in drag racing. You definitely have to be "awake" at the line. MPH is measured from 120 before to 120 feet after the finish line and averages the time it takes to cover that distance. Someone who pops his chute just before the finish line could conceivably win the race but have a much slower MPH than the car he is racing who stays in it past the finish line for that 120 feet. Then there is "shallow staging", "deep staging" and a few other things that different racers use to their advantage. "Slow staging" to play mind guys with your competitor. It is more than just getting on it at the green and gassing it. BTW, did I mention I used to run a '23 Ford altered roadster with a full tube chasis, big block Chevrolet engine that ran high 8's at about 165 mph quater times? Sure was fun. Sold it several years ago. | ||
| Augustine J. Staino (Azzuro328)
Junior Member Username: Azzuro328 Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dave, That's frightening! LOL. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2722 Registered: 1-2002 |
Nika, congrats! Next time, try one of these:  | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 52 Registered: 7-2003 |
Charles...(blush)..er....um.....yeah...cool seriously - I don't understand too much about what you are writing there - sorry. I do know they had two yellow lights for staging then I believe the three yellows come on in a sequence then the green..... remember by the time the green came on I had the pedal to the floor and thought I peed my pants. | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 51 Registered: 7-2003 |
well - my sheet of paper list R/T first then it goes 60', 330, 1/8, MPH, 1000, 1/4 and MPH again My reaction time in the Jeep was 5.13 becasue I knew I should gas at the second to last yellow..........the Funny car I had never accelerated in so I was more cautious. I think I could of easily shaved off time there. It's the thrill of a life time guys - which I hope to try again soon!   | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 6021 Registered: 12-2000 |
OK, can someone explain the scoring for drag racing? The 3 numbers you see are ET, reaction time, and total MPH. I know MPH is just informational, but here are my questions on ET and reaction time... 1) ET is just the time from when you cross both lines? 2) The time that determines the winner is adding up the ET and reaction time? Only reason I think this is I swear I've seen racers with the fastest ET loose. It's who crosses the finish line first, right? On the last note it's amazing how far apart two cars are at 300 mph even at only 5 hundreths of a second. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 716 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nika, I use to race NHRA division 2. I had a pro-street Trans Am I use to race that ran 11's. I loved drag racing and miss it to this day. Here is a shot of the car. This photo was taken @ Riverside Raceway in California. I was just finishing up in the bleachbox about to do a run. Nice #'s on the tree BTW! Was the tree a heads up or 5/10's ? If it was the 5/10's, the 5.13 was a pretty good #. For those not familiar, 5/10's tree means each light before the green is 1 tenth of a second and there is 5 of them. The pro tree is a heads up start with all the lights except the green coming on at the same time just before the green. If Nika was starting using a 5/10's tree, the 5.13 means she left the line just .13 sec's after the green. Nika when you get the #'s into the 00's you will be virtually unbeatable on a 5/10's start as long as you don't break out.  | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2437 Registered: 6-2001 |
Nika: Awesome. How many runs did you get in the car? Art | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5825 Registered: 8-2002 |
Nika, you're awesome... When i grow up, i wanna be like Nika... | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 920 Registered: 7-2001 |
It refers to the "Christmas Tree" of lights used to stage and then start the race when they go to green. | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 191 Registered: 3-2003 |
What does "tree" mean? | ||
| Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 536 Registered: 2-2003 |
A person wouldn't think much can happen just punching it in a straight line but I had a friend stuff his street legal Nova into the gaurd rail at over 100 MPH just because the rear end got 'a little drifty' at the top end. It really does take some guts to mash a car like that and NOT lift when you really don't have much seat time. I'll have a pretty good idea when I finish installing the Chev 350 in my 240Z. More power to you Nika. I think I would try to get a few more runs on this car, just so you have another career to fall back on. HA! DJ | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
New member Username: Racernika Post Number: 50 Registered: 7-2003 |
No school - just the kindness of the car's owner. I will write about it....maybe get more people involved or at least get more people to learn about "Funny Cars". I knew the title of the thread would get to you.....my editor threatening me with this title for my article if I misbehave: Star Drag Queen Pulls A Fast One: Nika uses more rubber than usual during strip time. But I did just fine..... I highly recommend you try this at least ONCE in your life.....it took me 11.2 to love the sport! To be honest - I was nervous when some other racers ....guys in their camaros and Vettes just shook their head and mentioned my "testicular fortitude" for attempting to drive that car.....YIKES | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 1804 Registered: 12-2002 |
Awesome!! Was this from some sort of racing school? The title of the post really scared me for a second though hehe | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Intermediate Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 1264 Registered: 9-2001 |
Nitro Burnin' Funny Nika  | ||
| Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 533 Registered: 2-2003 |
Nika, What a gas! A lot of people just don't get it until they do it! To get slammed back into the seat! What a grin you must have had! I am jealous! .500 on the tree is good. Some even shave that to .300 by anticipation on the sequence. Tell us more. | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
New member Username: Racernika Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2003 |
I admit it...I am.....I actually ran a 11.2 today - my first time drag racing EVER. Did a few runs in the Grand Cherokee to get the feel of the "tree".......did a 5.13 in one run "off the tree" - 5.00 is perfect they say..... After learnign how to "stage" the car I got into the 700 Horsepower alcohol burning funny car - the same car some of the other racers said took some testicular fortitude......and I did my first burnout EVER on a track.... When the green light shone I hammered it - felt the car twitch...(ok - lifted a little) but went back on the throttle. Guys - the high I felt - the sheer joy - the fact I didn't disappoint the people that worked so hard to tech me....What an incredible experience!!!! If more people would TRY this....less would need prozac!!  more pix soon!!! Including the Jeeps paper showing a 16.7 second run...must be the Ferrari yellow paint! |