| Author | Message | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 473 Registered: 8-2002 |
There was an article last year or the year before in the WSJ about many foreign countries selling their gold reserves in order to purchase "performing" investments like Bonds. Gold has been out of favor and has lagged just about every other market according to the article. Interestingly enough, the writer of the article commented that the amount of gold being sold was so large that it was to become a self-fufilling deal. So much being sold = low price = not performing. Gold has only recently risen. However, only to levels that it was back in the early 90's and to an approximate level it has been at for years. Truthfully, it really hasn't performed. That said, if the time comes that you have to saw off a piece of a gold bar, or buy a loaf of bread with a gold coin, there will be plenty more to worry about that gold may not be the answer. Gold was only a standard item that was used as an intermediary for trade. Someone wanting to trade a chicken for wheat grains might not have been able to trade directly. The gold was a basis of common denomination that both the chicken seller and grain seller could exchange with anyone else in order to facillitate their transaction. Since gold was heavy to lug around (That's how Levi's jeans got their metal studs on the top of the pockets-to keep them from ripping from holding gold in the pockets) banks began exchanging gold for a piece of paper indicating the amount of gold deposited with the bank. In the extreme, there's no 'value' in anything. Gold is just a lump of metal. You can't eat it, live in it, or wear it (clothing sense). It's like an insurance policy, you have one, but you don't put all your money into it. Jim, I hope you're wrong, but it is true that 'worthless paper' has failed in the long run because of the lack of intermediary function of what it amounts to. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1809 Registered: 7-2002 |
For anyone interested a great book published in 1994 is The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. It is about the secret creation of the Fed Reserve. It is about 600 pages and it veers off on some tangents, but if you don't know how money is created or why this is a MUST read book. Author shows his right wing tendencies, but still chock full of facts and interesting points. Another good book: The Shadows of Power: The Council on Foreign Relations and the American Decline by James Perloff If you have never heard of the CFR you should. The CFR is the US gov't and they have a hidden agenda of World Socialism, World Gov't, World Bank, World Army, World Currency. Can you say UN, Euro, Debit/ID Cards(no papers! go to jail), Foreign Aid. Fellas we are on our way to a One World Union with total gov't control. Maybe not in our lifetime, but soon. The money powers want it this way. It is about a total monopoly. Socialism, Communism and Capitalism are all very closely related. Most US capitalists don't like competition, they like a monopoly which a socialized world is the ultimate monopoly. Again, not conspiracy theory as it all is based on fact and past actions. If past actions are any prediction of future events then mark my words. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1808 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have just been reading some books on the Fed Reserve and what a crock of •••• it is. Not conspiracy theory books, but based all on fact. Makes me fearful of total colapse of our fiat money system. Every fiat money (fractional money based on nothing, ie no gold) system has failed. We have had 4 failures in the US since its inception. When...not if...when it happens it will destroy America as we know it. We may and hopefully will recover, but compared to the hit we are going to take it will make the depression look like nothing. | ||
| F355 (Arturo)
New member Username: Arturo Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2003 |
Very interesting post. There are allegations that the Fed might be selling/lending gold in order to flood the market and reduce the international price of gold, and this might have brought the total gold reserves as a percentage of money supply (M3) to one of it�s lowest points (1%). Apparently, if this is so (who am I to know) the Fed might eventually run out of gold (since it has to be mined, cannot be printed) and prices would tend to rise. I think Jim Schad might be very smart. http://www.fgmr.com/moreproof.htm http://bullandbearwise.com/GoldFearChart.asp | ||
| IamA (Ski_bum)
Junior Member Username: Ski_bum Post Number: 164 Registered: 12-2002 |
From www.m-w.com (Mirriam-Webster online dictionary) Main Entry: 1as�say Pronunciation: 'a-"sA, a-'sA Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old French essai, assai test, effort -- more at ESSAY Date: 14th century 1 archaic : TRIAL, ATTEMPT 2 : examination and determination as to characteristics (as weight, measure, or quality) 3 : analysis (as of an ore or drug) to determine the presence, absence, or quantity of one or more components 4 : a substance to be assayed; also : the tabulated result of assaying Bullion would get you more gold/dollar, coin you are paying a premium for minting costs/perceived collectablility. However, in an economic meltdown, coin would be easier to do commerce. A seller of a loaf of bread would more likely take a gold coin marked with weight/purity than a chunk of yellow metal sawn off a brick. You pay a premium for .999 fine (pure) gold/silver. In the same bread scenario, the average seller wouldn't care too much other than the fact he/she is getting gold coin. BTW: Jim, do you know something the rest of us don't?  | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 472 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jim, From my experience, when buying coins or other 'minted' gold, you pay a somewhat high premium over the actual 'spot' price of gold. The reason is that coins have an easier resale since the 'general public' can buy them without assessing the gold content %. If you simply want to buy gold itself, you should contact a reputable refinery. They can sell you gold bars in different sizes and gold content %. There are several major refineries in the US who can do so. They will also buy the gold back. When buying, you will pay a slight mark-up over 'spot' and when selling you will get a slight discount from 'spot'. The ability to sell gold bars has less 'public' liquidity than coins, but if you're really taking a position in gold why bother later on with trying to sell individual coins to the public anyways. To track gold, I think one of the best sites is www.kitco.com They have a lot of information on gold and other metals. | ||
| S. Brent Cardani (Brentc)
New member Username: Brentc Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2003 |
An "assay mark" from a registered assay office is a guarantee of the gold content. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1805 Registered: 7-2002 |
what do you mean by that? assay (noun) - 1. an appraisal of the state of affairs "they made an assay of the contents"; "a check on its dependability under stress" Synonyms: check, test | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Junior Member Username: Wax Post Number: 239 Registered: 7-2003 |
One word: Assay | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1804 Registered: 7-2002 |
finding lots of info on the web. my biggest concern is what will be valuable or recognized should an economic disaster occur. I like the American Eagles because I feel they woudl be accepted here as we made them and they do contain 1 oz gold. But the S African Krugerands are 99.99% pure and don't have a false face value on them so they would easily be worth the going rate. | ||
| Racer Nika (Racernika)
Junior Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2003 |
Gold is the only non-politically backed currency. Many places will sell you 1oz wafers - to larger dore bars. You pay a premium for coins and even more so for nuggets. You may want to get in touch with the World Gold Council - I believe they are in Geneva - they can send you some information. If you are looking at gold stocks - research TOTAL cash costs and TOTAL production costs, hedged production (gold sold forward into the market) + reserves - very important. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1477 Registered: 5-2002 |
The face value of gold coins is pretty meaningless these days. Seventy or 80 years ago before inflation and when the economic world was more stable, a $20 gold piece was worth $20 because the gold content was also worth $20. Not anymore. Even though the American $20 gold coin may say "twenty dollars" on it, the gold content is worth several hundred; or whatever one ounce of gold is worth on that particular day. Keep in mind that while a one ounce American gold coin does indeed contain one ounce of gold, it also contains some other alloy metals to make the coin more durable. So therefore, an American one ounce gold coin will actually weigh more than one ounce. The gold content is usually around 90 percent I believe. Same thing with American silver coins. They are usually 90 percent silver. That's why a Canadian Maple Leaf one ounce silver coin is usually a better silver investment because Canada makes their coins out of 99.9 percent silver. AND, the face value is FIVE dollars, not ONE dollar like the American coin. So if you actually walked into a grocery store, you could buy FIVE dollars worth of food with a Canadian one ounce silver coin instead of only getting ONE dollars worth of food with an American silver coin. Back to gold: Look for a 1991 one half ounce gold American eagle coin. These coins were "made to order", meaning that they only minted as many as were ordered. For some reason, in 1991 hardly anybody ordered the one half ounce gold American eagle coin. When the mint released their statistics for the 1991 production year, only about 20,000 of them had been minted. This is a VERY small amount in the grand scheme of things. At the time I was researching that coin, it was one of the smallest gold coin mintages of the 20th century. I looked all over town before I found ONE coin. I paid $205 for it at the time. Don't know what they are worth today, but it should be more than other run-of-the-mill gold bullion coins. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1801 Registered: 7-2002 |
also any opinions on how much % of gold or silver or platinum you should own? It seems that gold is the standard yet I read that silver actually has more practical uses besides jewlery and film like gold, but the price fluctuates more. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1800 Registered: 7-2002 |
http://www.amergold.com/vault/specials.shtml found this site which is pretty informative. Lists the pros/cons of american eagles vs maple leafs, kruggerands and austrian. I am confused though. the american eagles come with diff face values, but the $50 coin has 1oz of gold in it plus some alloys. So if gold is $375 an ounce, but the coin is stamped with $50 then what is the cost and the value of the coin? I am not really interested in rare coins. I am just wanting gold coins to use as cash should the current money system inflate itself into oblivion. | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 236 Registered: 3-2003 |
I'm on the floor - a useful, intelligent post from Mr. Green. Good job Gary - keep it up. Krugerands are the way to go I agree with J Haller | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Junior Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 214 Registered: 7-2003 |
Gary, All of a sudden you have something to say! You must work for Goldline. DL | ||
| J Haller (Jh355)
Junior Member Username: Jh355 Post Number: 134 Registered: 6-2003 |
If you want a higher percentage of gold buy the Canadian Maple leaf, or South African Kugerand. JH | ||
| G. Green (Mr_green)
Junior Member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 248 Registered: 8-2003 |
Jim, I would recommend buying American Gold eagles. They come in quarter ounce, half ounce, 1 ounce. There is a spread between the buy and sell so be careful to check around for price before you buy. It is better to buy the individual coins over the boullion slab. The reason being you might not want to sell everything at one time. With the coins you have the option of selling 1 coin or as many as you want to sell on any given day. With the boullion you would have to sell the whole bar. Another option is low grade $20 gold pieces. You will pay a bigger spread than the American gold eagles. The advantage to the $20 gold pieces is when the market goes up the premium on the sell side increases faster than the American gold eagles. Another option would be certified U.S. gold coins. These are more speculative, they offer greater upside potential and are more volatile. If you have more specific questions you can e-mail me at [email protected] | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1798 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have never bought gold/silver boullion before or coins or whatever you call it. What is best method for buying it? Do you buy gold pieces or bars of gold or what? If you wanted 100K worth do you buy a bunch of 1oz coins or just a big brick? I don't want gold certificates that are only paper. I want gold in my hand. Or silver. Also, not trying to "make" money by buying it. Want to have a stash just for a rainy day depression due to inflation. |