| Author | Message | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 189 Registered: 4-2003 |
"If, however, you are like me and tend to piss people off on a regular basis, I would not recommend an academic life. Go out and make a bunch of money and then become an academic. Then you can tell your fellow travelers to go take a flying leap whenever they grip about parking, ha!" That's the boat I'm in. I sit on an advisory board for the local university. They cringe when I open my mouth and tell it like it really is (or at least the way that I see things). But now that some universities actually refer to students as "revenue sources" in their handbooks, its fun to throw gasoline on the fire every now and then. | ||
| Dr. Ken Lee (Kenster888)
Member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 276 Registered: 4-2003 |
Erik, I do subsurface contaminantion research. Mostly on mathmatical modeling. Some on experimental remediation work. I'm in the Civil department. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 345 Registered: 4-2003 |
Okay David, here's my 2 cents... First, my "Piled High and Deep" is in Bidness. Yep, none of this save the world crap, or so it would seem... Second, you must understand that a Ph.D. is a union card. Without it, you don't get to play. That is, the only thing that a Ph.D. is really good for is academia. I don't want to beat a dead horse because this is really a deep conversation. But, simply put, the key is the various accrediting bodies. These folks dictate that a certain percentage of professors must be Ph.D.s. Moreover, tenure is a 7-year "up or out" process. What does it take to get tenure? Well... this is an even longer story. But at most schools this means that you must publish a certain amount of articles in a certain amount of publications within a certain amount of time. So, how does one get published in certain publications within a certain amount of time? Well, it helps if your dissertation committee has some stoke with the editiors of these certain publications... I don't mean for this to sound all that cynical or bitter because the process is not really all that hard, if (and this is a big if) you are really into academic research. If, however, you are like me and tend to piss people off on a regular basis, I would not recommend an academic life. Go out and make a bunch of money and then become an academic. Then you can tell your fellow travelers to go take a flying leap whenever they grip about parking, ha! Good Luck, Dale | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 187 Registered: 4-2003 |
So Ken, what's your research on? Day to day I develop catalytic converters (diesel and three way automotive), but I still try and keep my technical interests as broad as possible. Thanks, Erik | ||
| Dr. Ken Lee (Kenster888)
Member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 273 Registered: 4-2003 |
A Ph.D. is a title. It stays with you the rest of your life. A Ph.D. is not for everyone, but if you can earn it I would suggest getting it. I encourage all my students to get as high as an education as they possibly can. Settle no less than a master's. A Ph.D., in general, open better doors and give yourself the satisfaction that you went as high as possbile with your education. The things you say and do will be more credible. We get hundreds of applicants each year just for the chance of being a Ph.D. student. And each year we only graduate a few (in a good year). I do not know one person with a Ph.D. regretting getting it. But I do know alot of people wishing they had more education while they were young and able. So if you can and want do it, by all means do it. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Sure there are exceptions, and some people do win the lottery. It will not necessarily give you more money. For that, you have to work hard after your degree like everyone else. My case is a little different than Dr. Erik. The research I do is highly theoritical and impratical at the current time. I would estimate at about 1000 people worldwide could understand (or care about) the stuff I do. But hey, I love what I do and always get satisfaction from educating my students and publishing. I can not imagine myself doing anything else. Goodluck. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 184 Registered: 4-2003 |
My Ph.D. is in chemical engineering with a minor in management. The first part was so that I can teach when I hit 50-55 (god forbid a professor with real world experience). The second part was so that I can eat. I work in development for a surface and materials science Fortune 500 company, the Ph.D. may not be required, but more doors are opened than closed with the degree. If you do choose to go for the doctorate, what ever research topic you pick, make sure it is practical. The real world is results oriented. Theory is great, if it makes money. At the end of the day, find something you really enjoy doing, rather than something that just pays the bills. | ||
| Ed Christophersen (Dr_c)
Junior Member Username: Dr_c Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2002 |
Over the past 30 years or so, I've been responsible for supervising some 35 Ph.D.'s through to completion of their education (internship and post-doc), usually in a medical setting. The Ph.D. is probably necessary if you want to teach at the college/university level, but, other than that, it doesn't guarantee you anything. Absent significant inheritance, you have to work to get what you want. No doctorate, including the M.D./D.O., or the J.D., is an automatic high paying job. For the most part, you get what you pay for. Many of the high grossing professionals I know work hard for it. I don't know any of the .com or wallstreet people who makes hundreds of millions of dollars so can't comment on them. | ||
| David Perini (Oppie20)
New member Username: Oppie20 Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2003 |
Sirs: Amir- In fact I did go after a job in Iraq and the money is really great. 5 times what I get here. I don't think I got it as I never heard back. Their loss. -Matthew This is what I hear. PhD only necessary if you want to teach, invent somethng new or have lots of money already and just want to stay in a university setting. | ||
| Matthew J Germane (Mjgermane)
Junior Member Username: Mjgermane Post Number: 115 Registered: 1-2003 |
Welcome to FChat, David. I have heard that a person that has a Ph.D. in Computer Science has a really hard time to find a job. Most people do not want to hire someone that has had years and years of classroom experience and no real world experience. Now, this is not to say for all majors. I actually have a really good friend that just got his BS in GIS. He is going on and getting his MS in GIS, but will go no further. I asked him why he was just going to stop at MS and not get a a Ph.D. and he told me that a Ph.D. would not help him any more than a MS would. I don't know how right he is, but his opinion did come from being in the GIS college for 4 years and as well from his dad, who is also a GIS grad. Hope this helps. MJG | ||
| Amir (Amir)
New member Username: Amir Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2003 |
Dave, I have a suggestion. Can you find out the most lucrative application for your skills in the American market and then do the same thing in Iraq? Seems like they could use help over there, even for things like making sure water, UN aid, medical resources, police coverage, etc. are all distributed properly and in a timely fashion, as well as where the nearest stockpiles of various resources are to be found. If you start now, you could probably get detailed maps from the military. Later on, you would have a huge head start for mapping various things against this kind of detail, even for developing marketing databases. Do you think this is a decent idea, or am I totally not understanding what you do? | ||
| Amir (Amir)
New member Username: Amir Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2003 |
Dave, thanks. I will do my best. I trade BMW parts and already pull in about 15-20k per month. Not sure if any starting salary will be worth it, but I am hoping that several years down the road, corporate earnings will surpass this. If not, I have it to fall back on. I do hope it's worth it but I feel like I am doing it mostly to make my parents happy, and also to make sure that I don't end up regretting the road not taken later on. Funny thing is, I got a full ride--it's coming in nice and handy for buying a laptop and flat-screen TV! | ||
| David Perini (Oppie20)
New member Username: Oppie20 Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2003 |
Amir, You can make it. However, Econ can have it's moments of "WTF?" . The most succesful guy I know is a doctor in Agriculural Econ. I called it a PhD in Cow piss for years. Now it's $1000 bill just get him to talk to you on the phone and more if you want him to acctually say something intelligent. He works with futures markets. Get a 4.0 GPA ypur first two years. You'll thank me latter. After three years you'll have ~3.8 after you get to the real hard core econ in the latter part of year three and start getting b's in the really really hard classes. You'll be able to look for a good job your last year with a nice high gpa to show on the resume. Do an internship. Study abroad for a FULL YEAR not just a term. The biggest mistake you can make is getting B's and C's your first two terms. Good luck, Dave | ||
| Amir (Amir)
New member Username: Amir Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2003 |
BS = BULL S4HIT MS = MORE S4IT MD = MORE DEBT PhD = Piled High and Deep  | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1479 Registered: 5-2002 |
MD= medical doctor PHD= poor hungry doctor | ||
| Amir (Amir)
New member Username: Amir Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2003 |
And it's PER SE, not PER SAY. I just got started on my bachelor's...hope I finish! I am attending Texas A & M, majoring in Management Economics. | ||
| Mark Roberts (Stallionrx)
New member Username: Stallionrx Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2003 |
I guess it depends on your field. A friend of mine who has been working for many years in education (administration) has shown me that people who have doctorates are making only 3-4K extra a year and are responsible for the same type of work. Ive also worked in the biotech/chem field and had noticed that many of the engineers who have docorates did not seem to stand out in any major way. They were being paid slightly better, but they werent per say breaking the mold. Guys without PhDs can still make it to the top. Id say it comes down to you....I do not know much about your field, but if it can really set you apart from the others I say go for it. To really reach the top its going to come down to your level of work, not what abbreviation is at the end of your name. "TOO educated", not "TO." | ||
| David Perini (Oppie20)
New member Username: Oppie20 Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dear Sirs: I have read this forum off and on for a while now and I'd like to take a few seconds to introduce myself as I have decided to make my very first post. The situation I find myself in is that I have a BS(finance) and a masters(information science) and I am seriously considering a Phd in Info Sci. or perhaps education, as it relates to my field, GIS(geographic information systems) I have found the people who post on this forum to be a very unique and 'high class'(if that is a good term to use instead of well read and respectful) group of gentlemen and ladies. What drew me here in the first place was my love of working on mid engine cars, namely the Second gen mr2, of which I have had several over the years. Of course the most magnificent mid engine car to play with would be a Ferrari. I was wondering if any of you as (correct me if I am wrong) an outside of academia group of people do you consider people with a doctorate too educated? I hear this from a lot of people but I work in a research setting so I get a lot of biased opinions from people who could not make it in the "real" world. Not true in a lot of cases but enough to seek advice elsewhere. I am thinking that perhaps I will set up a business helping people organize their spatial data in a more efficent fashion as they move from old file based methods to geodatabase technologies. Frankly, IYO Will the phd help or at least not hurt? |