| Author | Message | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1443 Registered: 1-2002 |
Thomas, I don't really understand what you're getting at. Maybe you're trying to say that b/c dark matter may exist, that light speed isn't a finite, abosloute value, is that it? Anyway, "dark matter" is a concept used to understand , and quantify, the mass of the universe; you see, the problem astorphysicists had was: they take all the stars, planets and all the visible items of mass in the universe, but when the sum didn't equal the figure predicted, they got worried. here enters general relativty and the idea that matter , does not have be "seen," but can be infered; hence, the study for detecting gravitational waves/fields has been a growing field... essentially, heavy objects should emit gravitational fields, therefore light should constrain to the pull of these fields; as it does once it breaches the event horizon of a black hole (another example of "dark matter"). The problem, thomas, is that the study of grav. waves/field/black holes relies on general relativity, which relies on the absouloute value c (3E8 m/s). Sorry. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 768 Registered: 4-2003 |
turn speakers on click here | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 381 Registered: 7-2003 |
Mechanical breakdowns - ah, we get those no matter what we drive, aye? If you like, I can expand on this with voluminous examples, but here's the lowest common denominator: Darkness is infinite. Light is finite. Therefore, Dark > Light. One of numerous somewhat related articles I saved as a link on 01-01-03 - "Top Space Mystery for 2003" | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1435 Registered: 1-2002 |
You can't... how would you deal with the singularities that you'd puncuate your path with???? If you superceed the speed of light, all of mechanics breaks down. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 380 Registered: 7-2003 |
The Speed of Dark is faster than the Speed of Light. Before the Big Bang, Darkness was Infinite. The Speed of Light is Finite. Step outside, look at the night sky, after a while, stars appear in places where one perceived only darkness. That's because infinitely faster darkness got to your eyes first, then the slowpoke known as "light" catches up at it's finite pace, and *finally* becomes visible. There exist Black Holes which swallow everything, including the tortoise-like light. At some point, The Universe may be swallowed by an enormous Black Hole. If so, and it explodes ... Rinse and Repeat. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 951 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mitch, isn't it intresting that all spacial movement occurs at the quantum level, at Plank's constant invervals (~10EE-33meters if I recall correct.) The intresting part is, these 'jumps' aparently occur instantly. I personally belive the 'speed' of light is not a speed limit per se at all, it is just a limit on the rate of propogation of the state-change required to make a quantum jump. It can only happen so many times a second. (with increasing energy required to maintain rates of change.) The trick may well be to jump 2 or 3 or more 'spaces' at a time... My findamental belief on the matter: We Know Nothing(TM) But I'm excited about what we may discover along the way! Best! Ben. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1056 Registered: 4-2002 |
William and Tim: You (both) should be aware of an effect called "the aberation of light". When you go outside (in the daytime) and look at the sun, it looks like where it actually was 8 minutes ago (hint 93,000,000 miles = 8 light minutes). However, the gravitational vector holding the earth in orbit points to exactly where the sun is right now; otherwise planetary orbits would be unstable. So, somehwere, stuff* is transmitted faster than light can traverse the same distance. The only question is how! * stuff may not be information nor may it be matter, but it is nonNull in any event. | ||
| Jaime T. Ferraris are sex on wheels (Chevarri)
Junior Member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 160 Registered: 1-2003 |
"Also, the next time PBS runs the "Stephen Hawking's universe" series, you should watch that." I love PBS, Hist Channel, etc, its food for the brain! By the way you guys should check out Event Horizon, great movie. The ending is whacked out! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3094 Registered: 2-2001 |
Event Horizon was cool, a ship that warps itself to Hell & back, like a ghost/pirate movie but with a spaceship instead of a pirate ship. Tim, I would have to look into my reports to answer you & with law School i just dont have the time now. I think the experiment I am discussing was done by a Dr. Bell Dr David Bohm was a very cool visionary quantum scientist who wrote some amazing books like the IMPLICATE AND EXPLICATE, Wild stuff. The math is WAY over my head but I understand the concepts pretty well thanks to my philosophy background | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3380 Registered: 6-2001 |
William, the experiment i believe you are refering to is the one where it appeared that when the spin of an electron was changed from up to down, its matching positron changed its spin to up immediately. for a while this baffled physicists, as it appeared that informantion was some how being sent at faster the speed of light. I remember asking one of my professors about it last year. He told me that there was a problem with that experiment and that theres something else which causes that and that there is no info being sent at faster the speed of light. But then again, einstein's theories of relativity and quantum physics dont agree yet both are widely accepted. i guess we will have to wait for that grand unifying theory to come along, if it ever does. Jamie, that movie is a good sci-fi film. The idea of folding space isnt new. einstein said in his theory of general relativity that large masses, such as the sun, warp (bend) the space around it. Although i never learned about wormholes and the like in any classes, i have read a little bit about them. they are theoretically possible, but require alot of negative energy to keep them open, which by the way we have never found. theres a magazine called the scientific american, they also have a website where you can read more. Also, the next time PBS runs the "Stephen Hawking's universe" series, you should watch that. | ||
| Jaime T. Ferraris are sex on wheels (Chevarri)
Junior Member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 158 Registered: 1-2003 |
Any of you guys see the movie "Event Horizon" its a really wierd, creepy, and cool movie. Any way they had a neat concept where a ship had the ability to fold space. An example of this is if space were a sheet of paper, and if you were to fold a sheet of paper in half you would be able to travel across space. I think worm holes operate in the same principal. | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 306 Registered: 4-2001 |
Check out "Faster Than The Speed of Light" by Joao Magueijo. His theory is that the speed of light is/was not constant and was hughly faster just after the big bang. The advantage is that it negates the need for the inflationary model which many physicists have a problem with. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3092 Registered: 2-2001 |
nonlocal communication between photons occurs at Faster than Light or FTL speed in experiments. The C barrier WILL fall & it may fall in our lifetimes  You need to step away from Einstein's gravitationl physics & check out quantum physics to see how this will be done | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6344 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jim, someone else on here asked me that question a long time ago when the speed of light came up... i thought it was a very good question... If any one else recalls that thread or who said it, let's do a search for whatever you can remember, 'cause there was a lot of interesting information in there... | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3377 Registered: 6-2001 |
if you are travelling at 99% the speed of light and you turn on your headlights, the light they emit appears to move away from you on the ship at the speed of light, yet for a stationary observer, the light seems to be going at the speed of light in your reference frame. this is because the speed of light is always the same for all reference frames. This was one of einsteins key points in special reletivity. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Advanced Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2547 Registered: 7-2001 |
If you're travelling the speed of light and you turn on your headlights, do they work? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3374 Registered: 6-2001 |
Its really impossible to go faster than light in a vacuum. As something speeds up, its length contracts, time dilates, and its mass increases. When it reaches the speed of light, its mass approaches infinity. How can anyone possibly get anything to have a momentum of infinity? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3090 Registered: 2-2001 |
Art, space exploration IS expensive but the rewards are also enormous. If we could learn to travel to our closest neighbor star we would then have the natural resources of 2 solar systems available to us. Now your'e talking several 100 million times, at least, the net worth of our entire planet. That should ease your worries about the cost of getting there | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 284 Registered: 7-2003 |
MarkPDX, Sorry to inform you, I saw a commercial, just today, that claimed CDW.com is already working on wormhole harnessing technology in order to shorten delivery times. DL | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 469 Registered: 4-2003 |
William The summary from Amazon is better than I could do so here it is: The Light of Other Days follows a soulless tech billionaire (sort of an older, more crotchety Bill Gates), a soulful muckraking journalist, and the billionaire's two (separated since birth) sons. It's 2035, and all four hold ringside seats at the birth of a new paradigm-destroying technology, a system of "WormCams," harnessing the power of wormholes to see absolutely anyone or anything, anywhere, at any distance (even light years away). As if that weren't enough, the sons eventually figure out how to exploit a time-dilation effect, allowing them to use the holes to peer back in time. | ||
| mike550 (Mikeg)
Junior Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2003 |
Art you're not gonna blame the high cost of traveling to the nearest star on the Bush administration are you? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2583 Registered: 6-2001 |
Has anybody thought about the cost of the energy to do this? Estimates that I've seen indicate that to travel to a star will take more energy that we've created to date. What would be the cost of that enterprise? More than we're willing to pay, I'd bet. Art | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3087 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ive read almost all of Clarkes books but not that 1, whats it about ? | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 467 Registered: 4-2003 |
William - Have you read this book?  pic links to info on Amazon | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3086 Registered: 2-2001 |
quantum leaping would be the best of course this technology already exists & is employed by the highest spiritual beings. The rest of us have to wait for Boeing or Mitsubishi or Microsoft or someone to build a lightship | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 464 Registered: 4-2003 |
You can't stop, it's too dangerous Click pic for sound 
Maybe they will come for our air. Somebody better make sure the combination on the air lock isn't 1-2-3-4-5.... Click pic for sound  | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 970 Registered: 9-2002 |
Will, whats the fade rates on those puppies. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3084 Registered: 2-2001 |
Maybe Brembo can come up with some light speed brakes | ||
| John Do'h (Combover)
Junior Member Username: Combover Post Number: 82 Registered: 8-2003 |
So what's the stopping distance on a vehicle traveling 100X the speed of light? | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 320 Registered: 5-2003 |
""I'm not sure if anybody would want Earth" "I didn't say they wanted it..... maybe just a pit-stop and galactic 7-11 for a quick junk-food snack on that long road trip to xz-897484  " Marvin: "It blocks my view of Venus". Bring me the Irrudium Pew-36 Explosive Space Modulator! If we suddenly had the Starship Enterprise handed to us, what good would it do us? What good is a Mars-like world halfway across the galaxy, when we haven't learned to use the one next door? Earth's environment was shaped by its biology -- plants cranking out O2. We're not likely to find an empty "Earth-like" world lying around. Who cares? The Romans didn't build 747s, not just because they didn't know how, but because their society didn't have the resources to build even the factory, much less the parts. They didn't have the materials to learn how to build the parts. We're not going to be building starships on the resources of one tired mined-out planet. By the time we send relativistic starships to the next stars, we'll be able to use whatever rocks we find ... because we'll have already learned to use every rock in this star system. And we won't be looking for an "Earth-like" world -- because the people on that ship won't be from Earth. They'll be from Mars, Europa, the L5s, Titan ... people who are finding the solar system too crowded. The people who never left Earth for nearby colonies aren't likely to leave Earth for far away ones. The Terrans have a saying: "The meek shall inherit the Earth". The Martians (will) have a saying: "They did." Sounds like the theme for a blog page. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 751 Registered: 4-2002 |
LOL Mark. i LOVE that movie :-) | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3072 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mark, great links, thanks, Wasnt that "Ludicrously fast speed" | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 438 Registered: 4-2003 |
Light speed is much too slow. I think Spaceballs: The Movie holds the answer to interstellar travel... Click pic for sound  NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project Status of "Warp Drive" | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3067 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think it was the great Sci Fi author Arthur C Clarke who stated that different interstellar civilizations are bound to have such huge technological differences that one civilization could be at the stone age, then theres the US in the 21st C then you have a race that has colonized 50 different star systems. Obviously any notion of conflict between these 3 examples would be a no go from the start unless 1 race was particularly suicidal | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 442 Registered: 11-2002 |
One woul dhave to assume that any race able to travel at +light speed would not be a warring race. If they are technologiaclly advanced enough to creat light drives, then more than likely they would be socially evolved, as well. Assume the opposite - human develop light speed and go to Alpha Centauri. Assuming civilized nations created the effort (re: no Iraq or Afganistan), then is it reasonable to assume that we would just destroy whatever race we found? No, it is reasonable to assume that we would try to contact it, and we would be evolved enough to know that communication would be difficult. I assume the same of any other race that would come to earth. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 804 Registered: 10-2001 |
Wyle E. Coyote is the kind of guy that would drive a Viper. ;) | ||
| Ed P. (Ebp)
Junior Member Username: Ebp Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2002 |
"Like I said, I could see using a sail and hydrogen bomb type primitive craft to break the speed of light with-in a short period of time (next 200 years). " Didn't Wyle E. Coyote try this already? | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 803 Registered: 10-2001 |
"I'm not sure if anybody would want Earth" I didn't say they wanted it..... maybe just a pit-stop and galactic 7-11 for a quick junk-food snack on that long road trip to xz-897484 | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2002 |
People kill each other because of a lack of communication. If there actually are aliens (which I doubt in the first place, sorry) chances are our first instincts are going to be violent. If you can not talk to another race of seemingly sentient beings, the first instinct is to kill them, as to prevent them from doing to same to you first. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3063 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm not sure if anybody would want Earth if they dont breathe oxygen/ nitro mix like us. 1 thing is for us to go out in our little rowboat into the vast interstellar travel highways & run into somebody. Its a different thing for someone to find us, tucked out in the backhills of the galaxy as we are. I imagine we are the Milky Way galaxy's equivalent of barefoot Appalachian hillbillies One thing I never bought about aliens invading Earth is WHY? I mean our solar sytem alone has 9 planets + if you include our Moon which astronomers do & any other planets we havent discovered yet. Ours is 1 tiny planet. If any1 wants natural resources like water, gold, diamonds, platinum, iron ore or petroleum all those things are available in HUGE quantities far surpassing all the available deposits on Earth. It makes a lot more sense to me that the LGMs would just set up a mining operation on a far planet & they would never have to deal with the backwards hillbillies on the 3rd Rock who havent even figured out how to leave the system yet | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 802 Registered: 10-2001 |
William you could ask your question another way... What if the other kooks("to use your word")figures out how to come to our solar system? Now you have a Question of how do we defend against "kooks" that have higher and better technology then we do? I guess we call Saddam and Bin Laden in and ask for help on how to hide? (those guys do have a PhD in hiding). While our scientist come up with a defence? Suscide bombs in the mean-time? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3061 Registered: 2-2001 |
approaching light speed would be extremely useful in exploring our own solar system, getting to Mars could take less time than getting to Europe today, Imagine the economic possibilities that opens up, a whole new planet to explore, colonize, & mine for resources just a few hours away by light ship | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3060 Registered: 2-2001 |
Seems modern physics is putting into question some of Einsteins beliefs. Einstien imposed the light speed & time travel limits cus he couldn t accept what they did to his formulas. Einstein intensly disliked quantum physics and quantum physics is exactly what is getting us closer to breaking Einstein's barrier. It seems we wont be breaking Einsteins law, rather finding ways around it Mark, Jean Luc Picard learned from the Q the hard way about the Tiger cage when Q introduced Jean Luc to the Borg. & Kirk thought the Klingons were bad LOL | ||
| Dan Gordon (Ferruccio)
Junior Member Username: Ferruccio Post Number: 186 Registered: 2-2003 |
If the forumula E=MCsquared is right isn't it impossible to break the speed of light? Everytime I watch the science channel they say pretty much this. The science channel also says that germs wont harm us because we will almost defienitly be so diffrent in genetic make up that they wont be able to attack are systems. All this is what I heard from the Science channel (I watch it when Nascars on SPEED, which seems to be a lot) | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 801 Registered: 10-2001 |
I can see breaking the speed of light for aurgument sake. But even that may not be good enough? We are talking about 100's and 1000's or light years between systems. Like I said, I could see using a sail and hydrogen bomb type primitive craft to break the speed of light with-in a short period of time (next 200 years). But what you would need would be something more complex then just raw speed. Something that could control and multiply these forces so that you could go 100's of times the speed of light. Only then would you have a chance of finding others and learning what place you occupy on the time line of evolution. The zoo cage we live in... might be a better invention then we think. Keeping us from some-how smarting our way across the pathway and into the tiger cage. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3056 Registered: 2-2001 |
Good point, when the Spanish invaded what is now the Americas back in 1492 the germs he & later Conquistadors released upon the natives were ultimately far deadlier than the European swords & spears | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2001 |
The Simpsons did this topic already In the short-run, I'd be more afraid of bringing back a germ. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3052 Registered: 2-2001 |
The anti grav thread got me thinking about this. Suppose for sake of arguement that we develop a reliable light speed drive what would we do with it ? I'm all for huge exploration, mining, geology, cartography, and maybe even archeology within this solar system BUT I'm not so sure its a good idea for us humans to depart our solar system. Consider this, We already have Bin Laden, Saddam, & a whole bunch of other kooks here on Earth, Suppose we leave the solar system & find a lot more kooks, only these new guys want to take over our whole planet, enslave humanity or just kill everybody, Muslims, Jews, they dont care they just want the whole solar sytem to themselves. Only these new guys have technology as advanced over ours as our F22 is over a spear. Yes its Sci Fi, Now, but its not wild & its not that farfetched |