| Author | Message | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 504 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ben and Dave - thanks for the info :-) I used to feel like Mike and didn't really care for the older BMW's, but once I joined BMW CCA and started reading Bimmer mags and educating myself (especially Roundel), I have a ton of respect for them now. I'm still not the biggest fan of their "looks", but they still seem to hold up as phenomenal drivers cars. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 1033 Registered: 8-2001 |
Mike, You are correct it was a batch of motors during a one month period if I remember correctly. Bottom line is......I pay $50,000 for an M car that supposedly was built by MOTORSPORT I damn well don't expect the motor to grenade. No excuse for this on a 50K car. None whatsoever. As for slaming BMW, I am merely slamming their apparent lack of "niche" cars for some of the enthusiasts. Porsche doesn't make a zillion $$$'s off the GT2 and GT3 (profit margin yes, but overall revenue hardly a drop in the bucket). Why the hell can't they bring the M3 CSL here, why the hell can't they build a few M3's with the M5 motor, why can't they offer floating discs in the US, why can't they ........ I realize that they have to do what the market dictates and sell to the masses. No problem with that at all but why can't they leave build less mass produced M cars that hark back to their heritage. When you drive a BMW road car does it have any connection with their race cars. No it doesn't. Gone are the days when you could take a road car and upgrade it to a race car like the 3.0 CSi's, the E30 M3's, the 635 CSI's from Schnitzer, the 320i and 2002 cars. PTG which is running the M3's in the Speed Series doesn't start with a new car shipped over..they merely order a bare tub. Would I choose to drive an 80's 5 series from DC to NY over a current or future 5 series. Hell no, but I don't buy my BMW's, especially M cars to drive 500 miles. I buy them for short drives that excite me. As for the new M3 spanking an E30 or E36 on the track don't be too sure of it. When the E36 M3 came out it took years of refinement and development by BMWCCA CLub Racer to beat the old E30 M3's on the track. The first few years in J Stock the E30's were just as fast. Hp and ain't everything if you car weighs 3500 pounds. The last great car BMW built was the M coupe where the marketing and sales guys were told to bug off and the engineers were given some free reign. My biggest problem is that the M brand has been diluted to death. Soon we will have a X5 M version and I am sure a 1 series with an M motor. While the market is out there for mass produced luxury cars BMW shouldn't forget a small (albeit low profit) niche of BMW owners who care about performance not iDrive. Just my jaded opinion! Jon | ||
| Amir (Amir)
Junior Member Username: Amir Post Number: 113 Registered: 2-2003 |
You have a point with performance, but looks-wise, I think they have taken a step backwards. The old ones were nicer to look at IMO. What's with the trunk detail on the 5- and 7-series? And the headlamps are goofy. The Z4 looks broken from the side. The Z2 seems like it was designed by Kia. As for the motors, it was the high sulfur content in the US fuel that ate the cylinder liners, so far as I know. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 340 Registered: 12-2002 |
Maybe I'm insane, but I disagree with everyone in this thread. To me, old BMW's (like older than mid 90's) look like those little cars I expect Russian intelligence guys to be driving around in. Quite simply, they are fugly. I liked the 3 series after about '95 or so, and the 01+ 3-series I think looks very nice. They softened up the design, took out that ugly overbite look, and made the car more refined. My daily driver is an E46 and I like it very much. Compared to other cars I was considering (Audi, Infiniti, Nissan, and some others) the handling on the E46 was much more "connected" to the road. The car handles very nicely, can't seem to upset the chassis. It's very comfortable, it's classy, and it's just a great value for the-under-$40k I paid for it. The ONLY beef I have with it is that it's got throttle by wire, and since my car is a manual, the gas takes a fraction of a second to "catch up" to what I'm doing with the pedal, sometimes making it hard to downshift smoothly, or take off in 1st smoothly. Other than that, wonderful car! I also really like the new 7 series. The previous one just looked SOOO dated to me with the ugly leftover front end from the aforementioned KGB cars, and the gawdy silver trim everywhere. The new 7 is sleek and sexy - I would LOVE to own one (save the problems). The new 5 is Ok - I'm sure it will grow on me. What I *REALLY* like is the new 6! It smacks of Aston Martin or Jaguar to me - very sleek and beautiful. I'm hoping to pick up a new 5-series hopefully this summer, and then hopefully an M5 or M6 when they are available. I LOVE what BMW is doing with their product line. With all due respect, it appears to me the people who are "upset" with BMW are the old school guys who like the 80's BMW's. Things change and times change. I've noticed almost ANY fan of an existing model will be highly critical of a newer model. Anything BMW does would likely be treated with contempt by the old school guys. Regarding the overweight and over-luxo-ed pig folks call the new M3, I like it a lot. It's an amazing balance of power and handling that can't be beat. The weight? When were BMW's ever lightweight cars in comparison to real SPORTS cars? Want light? Get an RX-7 for a weekend warrior. The new M3 will absolutely work over any previous M3 on a track - be it drag strip or road course... so the "performance enthusiasts" can't say BMW went backwards in performance on the new M3 - they took a huge step forwards. Jon - half the first batch of new M3's had bad motors? Not even close to being true. Do a little research before you slam BMW. it was a specific batch of engines that were affected - and it sure as heck wasn't half! | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1859 Registered: 5-2001 |
Chris, the "M-Sport" 540 as sold in Canada is just like the regular USA 540 "sport" but has all the "bling-bling" stuff...M-5 style front and rear bumpers, M badging on the door sills and steering wheel, and metal dead pedal, visible chrome exhaust tip. Oh, and those 17" "double spoke" wheels. They started offering this in Canada in 2001, but only offered it in the States (with the 18" wheels) for 2003. | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 294 Registered: 6-2003 |
Jon, I had one of the first M5's. I went to a BMW ride and drive for salespeople at Texas World Speedway in 1986 and got to ride in my first one. Decided right then that I had to have one. My driving coach that day was Dorsey Schrader and boy could he drive that car smoothly. Had it about two years. It was raw on power. Even though it only had 286 hp, it felt more like 350. Kept the M3 about two years also. I wish I still had it. As I remember, it was one of the most fun to drive cars I have ever had. I am hoping the new S4 will bring some of that feel back. For the dollar to fun ratio in a pre-owned right now, a 1987/88 325is with a few mods is a great car. The engine wants to sing like Luciano Pavaroti at the Met. Some slight suspension help, some good tires, exhausts and chip and you will have a real fun. And you can pick one of these cars up in good shape for under $5K. Where else can you get this much fun for under $10K? | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Junior Member Username: Kds Post Number: 191 Registered: 5-2003 |
John Kofod... I second your sentiments exactly. When I started my sales career at BMW in 1989 I was genuinely proud of the cars I sold and what they offered. I lost ALL of that feeling with the new 745...the Z4 and now the new 5 series. Fire Bangle immediately. | ||
| Ronny Jones (Ronny)
New member Username: Ronny Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2003 |
I think the new 5 looks great, and I think it's certainly a design that will grow on people. Taek - at the time, the M1 was certainly an impressive car. They used to race them in a race only for M1's at every Grand Prix in the late 1970's( possibly something to do with Bernie Ecclestone owning Brabham BMW ? ). The story goes that at the French GP, officials wanted to cancel the M1 race, until Bernie offered, in return, to cancel the GP ! Ronny | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 913 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jon- I hear that! E34 M5, one of the best cars I've ever driven. Has the same appeal engine wise as a Ferrari to me, that motor just BEGS to be wound all the way out! Car loved to get sideways coming out of 1st gear (and 2nd) corners. I think I made the owner wet his pants. Chris- all 6-sp 540i now get 18" M-par wheels (as fitted to 740i Sports for a while now.) The E39 and E38 were the last great cars BMW has made. I for one dig both the "raw" BMW, and the "gadgeted" BMW that still can out run a bloody corvette. Hell, give me an E38 740i Sport (or heck, 750iL!) and I'll go up against a C4 driver on just about any road. (hey, they made C4s and E38s side by side for about 1 year...) Give me an E39 M5 and I'll gladly take on the average C5 driver. Current 3 series is actually pretty dam awesome too, too bad it will go the way of the stylistic dodo. | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 502 Registered: 5-2001 |
BTW - I grew up in Washington State and most of my family still live there. Cheers, ~C | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 501 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yeah, now that you mention it, I recall seeing the ///M Logo on the wheels, and thought that was odd, or perhaps an aftermarket item. They have to be the same as yours, and I love it! I'm still learning about them and wasn't aware of the M-Sport 540 or what that meant, but would love to know... | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1851 Registered: 5-2001 |
Not sure Chris, but my car has 17x9 on the rear with 255/40/17 tires and 17x8 with 235/45/17 on the front...this is the stock set-up on a M-Sport(Canadian). The 2003 (USA) M-Sport cars have 18" wheels, but I don't know the width. | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 500 Registered: 5-2001 |
I cannot conceive of ever being able to overlook, much less "like" those Dame Edna headlights...good Gawd what were they thinking!? Roundel had an interesting article this month on three generations of modified M cars tested back to back. Dave, congrats - beautiful car...probably the last stunning 5 for quite awhile. I just saw a 540i Sport parked outside the other day and was really impressed. It looked to have wider tires than my M3 and I loved its stance - not sure if it was modified or not, as I really don't know much about the 5 series. Cheers, ~C | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 1028 Registered: 8-2001 |
James, Henna red is THE color to have for the E30 M3. I am one day going to buy one as a daily driver. Although I never owned one (have driven at least a dozen at the track) the E30 M3 was the best BMW ever built in my opinion in terms of a pure drivers car. Had they not built that car I think the "Ultimate Driving Machine" monicker would have been laughed at with cars like the 528e and the 318i/325e. How long did you have your M5? What did you think of it? I have one of the first few built on the production line though other than the gearbox and the tub nothing is stock anymore on the car (Porsche brakes, modified engine, Ground Control suspension). To me the E28 was a real raw M car, maybe too much so for street use. The E34 M5 was to me the perfect combination of luxury and performance. the E39 went way overboard on the luxury and started the trend towards overengineered, mass produced gadget cars from BMW. On paper it looked awesome with nearly 400 hp and just as quick in a straight line as my street 355, but it was another bloated pig. At the track I can eat a stock E39 with a stock E28 any day unless it's some high speed oval. My M5 club racer eats em' for breakfast in anything other than a straight line and even there it's pretty darn close (300 hp and 2900 pounds). I know the new M5 wil boast a 5.5 liter V10 with 550 hp but I am sure it will weigh about 4000-4200 pounds. Can't really call it a SPORT SEDAN! I will one day own a E30 M3 and a 3.5 CSL Batmobile (my favorite BMW racecar). Regards, Jon | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 2107 Registered: 11-2002 |
I grew up with BMWs so it's terribly painful to see this stuff happening. My dad had everything from the 2002s to the M1. He LOVED to drive them too. I loved riding in them. I may just buy one of these things simply because I'm a sucker for the Roundel. They do still have a feel all their own. They might not be as hard edged as the older cars, but the BMW feel is definitely still there. Also, what's the competition? Not much better if at all. Cheers | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1848 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think the new 5 series is not so bad, and it will grown on us. I absolutely hated the new 7 series, and now I am indifferent...in another year I may LIKE it. In the mean time, I picked up a Canadian 2001 540ia M-Sport a few weeks ago, and imported it into the States.    | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1407 Registered: 1-2002 |
NEW BMW 7-SERIES DEVELOPS COGNITIVE REASONING With dozens of on-board computers and a 42-volt electrical system, BMW's new 7-series is one of the cleverest cars around. So clever in fact that it has developed cognitive reasoning and the ability to consider its own destiny. "We first realised how clever this car was during early testing," says an anonymous engineer who worked on the project, "an air-con calibration car became paranoid about spy photographers and refused to leave the garage until we had fitted it with 'some sort of hat'". The development team was even more alarmed when two powertrain assessment cars started to grow opposable thumbs and a crash test car was heard to shout "Owww" during a low speed impact simulation. Most disturbing of all, an electronics verification vehicle responded to anyone who failed to follow road directions from the satellite navigation by sticking its virtual tongue into its chin and going "MNNNNNUUURRR" in a sarcastic way. We rang BMW in Munich for further comment but Sniff Petrol isn't very good at German and we accidentally asked them for directions to the station instead. "It's just around the corner," a spokesperson said. "Opposite the town hall," they added, mysteriously. BMW DESIGNER IS EVIL MERCEDES ROBOT CLAIMS INSIDER The German car industry has been rocked this week by claims that BMW's design director is actually controlled by Mercedes-Benz. An anonymous insider at Merc's Stuttgart HQ alleges that Chris Bangle, head of BMW styling for the last seven years, is actually a sophisticated robot intent on slowly destroying the company. "Zis started as a harmless project by ze R&D department," claims the informant who we've given a ludicrous German accent to make him seem more sinister, "But ven ze board discovered it zey hatched an interesting plan. Ve vould send ze robot for a job in ze BMW design studio, just to see vot vould happen. Little did ve sink he would be made design director." The three-pointed snitch insists that this scheme was just an innocent prank; "I mean, ve made him look like such a clich�d designer. Ze stupid glasses, ze inadvisable facial hair, ze ability to talk complete bollocks about his company's designs and instinctively slag off all uzzer designer's verk; it vas too obvious but zey fell for it!" It was at this stage that the Mercedes management realised the evil potential for their new creation. "Ve haf long admired BMW's design integrity. So ve decided to see if it could be ruined," says the Teutonic tell-tale, "Ve verr careful at first but no one seemed to notice so ve decided to try a bigger experiment on a show car. Ze result vas ze Z9. It vas completely •••• and no one complained. Ven we tried again ve got ze ridiculous X-coup�. Zen ve knew our plan vould verk. Even ve verr amazed ven ve saw ze new Compact. It vas completely rubbish yet no von qvestioned ze stupid little headlights or stumpy proportions. Ve even uploaded a picture of ze Lexus IS200 to see if zey would notice ven W290 [Mercedes codename for the robot] stole ze design for ze rear lights. It is good for zem zat zis car is bought by vankers uzzervise zey vould not sell any." However, Merc's evil plan doesn't stop there according to the Daimler-Benz double crosser; "If you sink ze new 7-series is a big heap of cack, vait 'till you see vot ve haf done to ze next 5-series. Ve vill bring zem to zere KNEES! HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAA�" Fears are growing that Bangle may be not the only terrifying super robot in the car industry. At the Frankfurt Motor Show a senior Ford director was seen squirting WD-40 into Wolfgang Reizle's elbows. BMW LAUNCHES MONKEYTRONIC BMW is to launch a revolutionary new option for the 7-series which it claims will take on-board driver aids to an entirely new level. The new system, dubbed Monkeytronic, is based around a live chimpanzee that lives in a special hole in the centre console and crawls out on demand to help with everyday tasks like setting the climate control and turning on the headlights. Thanks to an intensive training programme, the chimp also makes a major contribution to active safety. If it senses that the car is about to slide it will grab the steering wheel and apply the necessary amount of opposite lock. BMW also claims that Monkeytronic can perform subtle steering corrections to offset the effects of a strong crosswind and, if so desired, will be able to activate the cruise control and then hold onto the wheel, allowing the driver to do other things such as make a phone call or eat a big sandwich. Monkeytronic will be available only on the range topping 7-series for the moment but the same technology is expected to filter down to lesser models as the price of specially trained and shaved monkeys falls. Not to be outdone, arch rival Mercedes is said to be planning a similar system for the next generation S-class, tipped to be called PuertoRicanOrphanmatic.   BMW REVEALS Z4 STYLE INFLUENCE BMW's Z4 is one of this year's most eagerly anticipated and controversially styled new models. Now Sniff Petrol can exclusively reveal the influences behind the brand new roadster's distinctive looks - the Euro NCAP crash tests. 'That's right,' confirmed spokesman Inlyne Sicks. 'Euro NCAP is very popular at the moment and car buyers are becoming increasingly fascinated by each new round of tests and the attendant photos of awkward, unevenly bent metal. So we decided to make the Z4 look like that from the start.' However, not everyone is so impressed with the latest BMW's new look. 'I think they have been very brave with the surfacing treatment,' noted legendary designer Giorgetto Giugiaro. 'Although the proportions are essentially very traditional and the�. Oh alright I'll say it: "My God, they've done it to the other side too". There, are you happy now?    Random command sequence for BMW's iDrive: 1. Turn dial four clicks to the left 2. Nudge dial forward 3. Turn dial three clicks to the right 4. Nudge dial forward twice 5. Tap six times on the dashboard 6. Turn around 7. Touch the ground 8. Bagsy not it 9. Nudge dial left and upwards whilst turning to the left 10. Do a little dance 11. Make a little love 12. Get down tonight 13. Recite the alphabet backwards 14. Turn the dial four clicks to the right again 15. Whistle dixie RESULT: radio volume increases by one increment  | ||
| Augustine J. Staino (Azzuro328)
Member Username: Azzuro328 Post Number: 351 Registered: 4-2003 |
Amen! | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 292 Registered: 6-2003 |
Jon, I agree with you 100%. Like I said, I was with BMW for 17 years. I owned one of the first M3's in Henna Red, a 1988 M5, M6, 325is, and a few others along the way. I feel that somewhere about 1996 or 97 BMW made the mistake of wanting to be the highest production luxury sport car in Germany. They accomplished this but at the expense of their heritage. Long gone are the days of the 2002tii, 320 sport and cars such as this. Like you say, now everything is heavier and less responsive. I loved my M3 even though I had to keep that little 2.3 liter 4 cylinder wound pretty tight to keep it on peak. That is the major reason I came to Audi after leaving Ferrari. The new cars coming down the pike are in the vein of what BMW was 15 years ago. Their declared statement is that they want to become known as the German car company known for building the widest selection of sporty and sports car. Plus the styling of the new Audis, although not earth shattering, is quite attractive and understated. I believe you will find the 6 speed manual S4 quite a lot of fun and quite a lot of car for the money. I still own a BMW and am heartsick at the direction the company has taken. I love the history and heritage of BMW and missf what it used to be. It is not the same today. Tim, Go to www.audiworld.com and view the new Quattro Lemans. I believe it is the car being built on the Gallardo chasis. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 1025 Registered: 8-2001 |
BMW, once the proud builder of sports sedans is now nothing more than a mass producer of luxo barges. Marketing and sales drive the designs in today's modern world and those of us who grew up as BMW or Porsche enthusiasts now must make way for the hairdressers, doctors, lawyers, dot.comers and bored housewives who need a car that shouts STATUS. No offense meant to lawyers, doctors and such but the true "niche" enthusiast is now left behind. Porsche has in the past two years at least brought back some of the true hard core offerings like the GT3 and the GT2 but BMW only looks at the sales charts. Every car BMW makes is heavier than the last, loaded with enough gadgets to confuse even James Bond. Even worse is the "M" division which many years ago stood for MOTORSPORT and now stands for either MASS PRODUCED or MARKETING. The new M3 is a bloated pig. It's got 333 hp but can't outrun my 88 M5 which has 30 hp less. I take great pleasure in peeling the paint off of all these new M cars which are overweight and overengineered. When I grew up in the 80's M cars were designed for the race track or in the case of the M5 and M6 derived their engines from BMW race cars (M1 engine which powered everything from the F2 cars up to the M1 Pro Cars and M3's). They were all handbuilt and none had major recalls. The E39 M5 had serious problems with oil consumption, the clutch, and the elctrics. The new M3 is even more poorly engineered. The first batch of cars saw half of them blow up their engines. BMW is a car for the masses to compete against Lexus, Infinity, and Mercedes Benz. It no longer adheres to be the king of sports sedans or the ulitimate driving machine. It's a luxury car company. My last new BMW was a E38 750iL. I will never own another new BMW until they build something with passion that has some motorsport heritage behind it instead of a bunch of bean counters who need more door pockets to stash their Palm Pilots and calculators. Bangle ought to be shot! Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge Current owner of the orginal and REAL M5! Past owner of: 88 325is, 89 325i, 89 535i, and 94 540i Here is a real M car:  | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3398 Registered: 6-2001 |
James, is the car you are refering to the same thing as the RSR which is built on the gallardo platform? | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 290 Registered: 6-2003 |
You got that right!!!!!!!!!!!! RS6 and S4's are no slouches either. Wait until the Quattro Lemans comes out in a few years. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Advanced Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2605 Registered: 7-2001 |
You went with Audi because the new A8 is SWEET!  | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 289 Registered: 6-2003 |
I understand that Chris Bangle is in tight with the Quandt family (major stock holders of BMW and the family that saved BMW from being taken over by M/B a number of years ago). Unless something is done to interfere with that relationship, I am sure we will see much more of Mr. Bangle. I spent 17 years with BMW, then three with Ferrari and now am at Audi. I had offers from a good number of BMW dealerships to come to them but I am with Audi. I wonder why??????? | ||
| Brad K (Speedfreek)
New member Username: Speedfreek Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2003 |
It seems like the only thing that will force Bangle out of BMW is if they suffer long-term financial problems as a result of him messing up the rest of their models (hopefully it doesn't come down to that before they get rid of this guy). Engineering is all BMW has left at this point to appeal to the enthusiasts who don't like the new designs. I agree that it is sad to see the new models turn out with what I think is an industrialized and cold look, but they are being purchased nonetheless. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Advanced Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2602 Registered: 7-2001 |
I like the new Maxima, but can't stand the front end. It looks buck toothed. | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Intermediate Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 1045 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sunny. The new Maxima is an awesome design.. I love it.. The new 5 will take a bit of getting use to.. As for power and interior, they got it right.. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 908 Registered: 2-2003 |
Sure, it will grow on us like the new Maxima will. Since we're all here, please sign. http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPCB/petition.html | ||
| Matthew J Germane (Mjgermane)
Junior Member Username: Mjgermane Post Number: 137 Registered: 1-2003 |
When I was in Germany last June I saw countless new 5 series. I also went to the plant where they were being made. It was actually pretty amazing. On the same assembly line they had the e39 and the e60 5 series. Anyway, the first time I saw the car I thought it looked okay in person. After a while it grew on me. The more I saw it the more I loved it. I saw the special on the new 5 on the Speed channel last Friday, and it looked good there too. I think that a lot of people are going to like it more and more once they see it in person a few times. | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 70 Registered: 8-2003 |
I agree Jim - it is simply awful. I've always loved the 5 and 7 series BMWs, but things are getting really ugly these days. From http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000141970.cfm , Chris Bangle says, "We needed a scheme that would put everything into a logical matrix," he says. "The plan was not 'everything is like the other one.' Neither was it 'everything has to be different to the other one.' We developed a spectrum which leads into two different directions. At the one end of the spectrum stands the 7 series with a sculptural, present shape. At the other end stands the BMW Z4." Once again in english? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 2105 Registered: 11-2002 |
The local dealer told my wife they'd have it in on the 28th. I saw it in the Monterey Historics, but there were too many people around it so I didn't bother for an up close viewing. I'm looking forward to checking it out. Cheers | ||
| Eric Brigham (Ebrigham)
Junior Member Username: Ebrigham Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bangle - yet another reason the Europeans hate us... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2601 Registered: 10-2002 |
Very sad | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Advanced Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2595 Registered: 7-2001 |
Today at lunch I saw 2 of the new 5 series BMWs for the first time. I have to say, that they are just as ugly in person as they are in pictures. |