| Author | Message | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1484 Registered: 5-2002 |
I guess that would make it a "pool" table? Or should that be a "lake" table? | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 759 Registered: 4-2003 |
Arlie It's almost impossible to make a stable 4 wheeler out of a table. Try using it as a boat instead.  | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1435 Registered: 3-2002 |
Basically, what this is about is the impossibility of protecting people from themselves. A modern-day natural selection, if you will. I've done some pretty stupid things in my days, but even at my most f*cked up I knew better than to do Darwinian things like joyriding overloaded ATVs on public roads at night. It's tragic, but it was really stupid, too. What we'll see next is the other kids' parents wanting to know how these kids had access to the ATV. The parents of the 14 year-old better get a good attorney. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1483 Registered: 5-2002 |
"A three wheeled ATV is dangerous. Its the physics of riding one, not the design. Three wheels are three wheels." I detect a contradiction of physics rearing its ugly head. Anybody with a basic knowledge of geometry knows that it only takes THREE points to determine a PLANE. That's why a THREE legged table will always remain stable; it can't wobble because the THREE legs determine the THREE points of the PLANE that forms its base. HOWEVER, the total AREA of the PLANE is greater with a FOUR point base than a THREE point base. Therefore, more stability in a 4 wheeler than a 3 wheeler. However, I still think that most of those 4 wheelers are a contradiction in themselves. Weren't they intended to be a lightweight, one person, off road vehicle for riding on narrow trails? I sat on a brand new 4 wheeler one time. It was like putting a saddle on a Volkswagen. The thing seemed so big and UN-nimble that it would require several people to pull it out of a ditch. No thanks. | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Intermediate Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 1052 Registered: 2-2002 |
I own a 4-wheeler and have ridden many 3-wheelers and even owned one in the past and I can tell you I would rather have a 3-wheeler tip over on me than a 600-700lb 4-wheeler. I think 3-wheelers got such a bad name from all the idiots that didn't know how to ride them. Granted there were times when we tipped it with 2 people on goofing around. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3415 Registered: 6-2001 |
On ALL ATVS there are numerous warnings which say things like "Never carry riders" and "Drivers must be over 16" and stuff. It is very clear that they are dangerous to use if you dont know what you are doing. One time a friend of mine and i were riding and we flipped, no big deal, just flipped it back over. | ||
| rich stephens (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 620 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm not for banning anything. But I'm for truth in marketing. If they want to say "here's a crazy idea for a vehicle that is totally unstable and prone to flipping over, available now at your honda dealer" then fine with me. In fact, I wish they could do that with cars: "here's a classic looking car built to the inferior safety standards of italian cars of the 50s, have fun" would be my dream. But we can't leave it up to the consumer to understand material safety, physics, etc. So slap a warning label on that baby. (yes, we take this too far but like the rappers say "hate the player, not the game") | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2873 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dang! I like Feinstein a whole lot more today than I did yesterday!! Thanks, Art!!  | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 747 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ummm...Ok...My idea of a good design is one that takes physics into account. If three wheeled ATVs are inherently unstable and dangerous even for experienced motorcyclists then I would say it is a flawed design. On the subject of crashes, a guy on a Honda CBR 929 lost it in front of my house half an hour ago. I just happened to be outside and saw the whole thing, first time I have seen somebody crash on a street bike up close. There is a long straight then a curve that starts in front of my house. I heard him going through the gears on the straight and walked out my driveway to see what was coming. It's a 25mph street and I would guess he was probably still going about 70 and braking in front of my house. The bike was wobbling and he lost it. The curve is fairly gentle so he and the bike slid 100 yards on the street before ending up in a neighbors yard. A bunch of bushes that did a good job of stopping the slide. The rider was only wearing a tshirt and shorts, no protective gear other than a helmet. Amazingly it didn't look like he broke any major bones as he was able to stand up though he had a lot a skin missing from all over. The bike looked pretty screwed up and the guy kept saying that his buddy just bought it. I would have grabbed a camera and taken a few pictures but the emergency crews showed up and I thought better of it and headed inside. | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Intermediate Member Username: Peters Post Number: 1559 Registered: 1-2003 |
Mark...Design flaw? Not...A three wheeled ATV is dangerous. Its the physics of riding one, not the design. Three wheels are three wheels. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 746 Registered: 4-2003 |
That article didn't mention anything about banning ATVs so I'm not sure where that came from. From my understanding the problem with 3 wheel ATVs was that they had a nasty tendency to roll over and squish the rider. A design flaw which ultimately caused them to be banned. In the story Arlie linked to the accident was the result of illegal behavior and stupid decisions of both parties involved. Having six kids pile on an ATV without helmets and riding it on the road at night is just asking for Darwin to make an appearance. Even if the blood tests prove the driver of the car to have been sober she did cross the center line and could have just as easily hit another car. Whatever agenda Schumer and Feinstein may have I think it is rather presumptious to assume ATVs will be in the crosshairs because of this accident. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2611 Registered: 6-2001 |
Arlie: I represented some of the people who bought the three wheel ATVs in the 70s. they were dangerous and they were sold to experienced motorcyclists. The problem with them was that in order to make them turn, you had to do the exact opposite of what you'd learned on a motorcycle. A good many accidents occured as a result, when things got dicey. I haven't read the article, but I would bet that Feinstein won't be in favor of banning them. She's actually quite conservative, and frankly if I had a more liberal alternative, I'd vote her out of office in a second, she votes with the republicans far more than I like. But when you're on the fringe, I guess she looks liberal. Art | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Intermediate Member Username: Peters Post Number: 1557 Registered: 1-2003 |
What may be worse is if we get electric cars (not the hybrids) shoved down our throats. These cars create more pollution than a well tuned gas car. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2868 Registered: 1-2002 |
Just wait, Arlie. You may be proved right by the folks in thrall to trial lawyers. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1482 Registered: 5-2002 |
http://www.start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=6&aid=D7TNRKE00_story I can hear Schumer and Feinstein now: "It wasn't the fault of the people involved, it was all the fault of those evil ATVs. Ban them all and life will be safer!" |