| Author | Message | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2720 Registered: 6-2001 |
William: Sexual harassment in California has been illegal since the 60s. Anybody working longer than that is probably not going to get sued. My point is that despite the 1 year statute (Government Code 1290, et seq), almost all of the cases indicate that where there is a pattern and course of conduct, those things are admissable. Damages may be restricted to the statutory time period, but evidence of conduct prior to the statute date is indeed admissible. Art | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3317 Registered: 2-2001 |
Art, but if you did 110 mph, all day long every day in the Nevada desert before the 55 mph limit came into effect would your previous legal behavior be allowable in the court seeing as it was legal then ? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2717 Registered: 6-2001 |
Wm: California allows evidence of a pattern of conduct in those matters, so while you can't collect for the harassment, you can show it existed. Art | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3316 Registered: 2-2001 |
if these women claimed they were sexually harassed 20 years ago, well thats too bad because I am sure the statute of limitations has run on 20 year old complaints and the law does not allow for a person to be convicted today for waht was legal behaviour 20 years ago. I understand you said they claim to have been harrassed for 20 years but the first decade probably wont count | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 538 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thanks, Art - I got hung up on that quote, too. (It is said Lawyers read things 3 times - prior to posing the question to you, I had to read it 3 times myself to "see" it.) Numerous Google searches were fruitless (The Wash. Post mentioning "other evidence" was an exception to the rule - other mentions of the $2.2M settlement didn't go that far). But one thing was repeated in a few places - San Francisco - hence the requests for confirmation from you after my own doubts started lingering.. This is the type of quote I'm speaking of, from what appears to be a reputable source: http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/program/courses/tcr840/2003/workplace.pdf "Without an effectively drawn and implemented workplace monitoring policy, and in the presence of allegations of violations as described above, expensive litigation is likely to ensue. Accordingly, an employer would be well advised to consider Nardinelli et al v. Chevron. In Nardinelli, the Defendant had an anti- harassment policy that mandated awareness training for all employees. However, it had no monitoring policy. The Plaintiffs alleged sexual harassment arising out of emails sent by other employees that discussed 25 reasons why beer was better than women. Rather than engage in litigation, Chevron settled out of court for 2.2 million dollars. With a workplace monitoring policy in place, a different less costly disposition could have resulted." But still, there were doubts - adding "Nardinelli" made the difference in searching on Google. Some paydirt on the actual case: http://www.gilardi.com/pdf/citcnot.pdf Last sentence of last Paragraph on page 2 indicates the following: "In short, the pending class action is one for sex discrimination, as described above, and not one for sexual harassment." Finally - http://www.feminist.org/research/71_newsbr.html "In the largest out-of-court settlement ever reported for a sexual harassment lawsuit, four women employees of Chevron Information Technology ( subsidiary of Chevron oil company) will be paid $2.2 million by the company. The women said they had endured up to 20 years of sexual harassment, including receiving violent pornography through inter-office mail. In addition, more than 770 women employees have filed a class-action lawsuit against Chevron Information Technology, scheduled for trial in October, alleging sex discrimination and sexual harassment by the company, including men being promoted over more qualified women. One of the women involved in the sexual harassment settlement, Laurie Nardinelli, said she would use $300,000 of her settlement money to help other workers file harassment suits." So, it appears that the "other evidence" was, at the very least - "violent pornography." Though the Feminist.org site says the site was for sexual harassment, and not discrimination, which the court's papers had spelled out, as I indicated. The bottom line is that the "violent porn" was the main culprit. I think that's fantastic. Not the "violent porn" part, rather - that I haven't found evidence (and highly unlikely anyone else either) of a successful lawsuit based on a simple joke filed and won by female(s). You would know if there was one, and certainly, it would be all over the 'net with documentation by now. Thanks for posing the challenge and helping clarify the point. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2713 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thomas: The actual quote was: In 1995, Chevron Corp. agreed to pay four women a total of $2.2 million in settling a sexual harassment suit after the plaintiffs produced, among other evidence, e-mail containing sexist jokes about "why beer is better than women." What does "among other evidence" mean? My point is that wasn't the only issue there. Something like that is usually in conjunction with other stuff, most of it bad. Close, but no cigar. Art | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 537 Registered: 7-2003 |
Art, does my message posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 at 4:44 am (on my screen, anyway) regarding Chevron's 1995 $2.2 mil settlement qualify as a lawsuit based on a joke? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2711 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mark: He wasn't fired for telling a joke. He was fired for a lot of reasons, one of which was using obscene language. It however looks like they used that as an excuse, since they were trying to reduce their costs from a level 14 to a level 13. As to Nibbles: not worth a comment. Art | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3306 Registered: 2-2001 |
American women are grossly over rated, too much trouble. I refuse to put my nads & my wallet on the chopping block for their amusement. South American women are a lot spicier, a lot more fun & a lot less hassle | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 622 Registered: 2-2001 |
Art: Mackenzie vs. Miller Brewing Co (7/97) http://www.courttv.com/archive/verdicts/mackenzie.html | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 523 Registered: 7-2003 |
Art, does my message posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 at 4:44 am (on my screen, anyway) regarding Chevron's 1995 $2.2 mil settlement qualify as a lawsuit based on a joke? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 7053 Registered: 8-2002 |
i was gonna reply, but... | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 650 Registered: 11-2002 |
Art - you are a rediculous idiot. Everyone knows the point of this thread: that women and LAWYERS LIKE YOU abuse the sexual harassment issue. So, when I give you three examples of the abuse, you tell me it means nothing because they ain't jokes. Keep hiding that head, idiot. Even if I had posted cases regarding jokes, you would have told me I was wrong. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2701 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mark: I hadn't hear about that. Have you any particulars? What State? Art | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 621 Registered: 2-2001 |
Art/Nebula - Miller Brewing a few years back fired a guy for discussing a Seinfeld episode about a girls name that rhimed with something...employee was fired and sued. won but was reveresed.... | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2699 Registered: 6-2001 |
Nebula: YOu need to learn to read. Who got fired for telling a joke in the workplace, who got sued for telling a joke in the work place? One joke, that was the challenge, and you come back with this trash? Come on, start reading what you're responding to, start reading what you've presented as a response. I'm still waiting. Art | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 517 Registered: 7-2003 |
Art is a busy guy, let him respond in his own time. The challenge was for a "joke" resulting in a case, etc. - 1995's Beer vs. Women email at Chevron covered that base, as posted yesterday. However, I don't believe the criteria of "joke" was met with the 3 other cases cited, and I have a feeling Art's response won't be what you had in mind. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 636 Registered: 11-2002 |
ART! Where are you? You asked for one example with names, and I gave you three. Are you unable to concede? | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 630 Registered: 11-2002 |
art - can't let this drop! | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 625 Registered: 11-2002 |
Art and Ben - "One example of a serial accuser is the woman who accused a New Jersey attorney of groping her. The attorney later discovered that she was a frequent filer of frivolous lawsuits, including one against a restaurant claiming damages because she did not like the way a server handled a soup ladle. The attorney, Michael Land, won $225,000 on his legal counterclaim for malicious prosecution." "In Rundins Hollins Hall vs. Cotran The California Supreme Court ruled in a landmark case that an employer can only be sued for wrongful termination arising from what is later found to be false charges of misconduct or sexual harassment under special circumstances. Specifically even if man proved innocence after the event this was not relevant. The California court stated that all the employer needed to show was belief." "But try telling that to someone like Bill Buckingham. "I'll get even," were the last words the president of Buckingham Computer Services Inc. heard when he fired a female employee for not doing her job. He and his company, a computer consulting business with some 40 employees, were sued for sexual harassment and wrongful discharge. "Her comment was that I touched her on the back, which I had," Buckingham told Inc. magazine at the time. "We're a pretty close-knit company, and there was no question that I had patted people on the back. Nothing sexual. I'd tell people they were looking sharp today, ask if that was a new dress, stuff like that. That's basically what the suit was based on." The ex-employee demanded more than $100,000 to settle the case. Since that figure represented a year's profit to his company, Buckingham tried to fight. He gave up after a year-and-a-half battle and $25,000 in legal costs. The most vigorous of prevention programs would not have saved Buckingham from such a suit, but sexual harassment liability insurance would have been a financial lifesaver." Ok Art. There's three examples WITH NAMES. Now what? Will you BE QUIET???? Thanks. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 620 Registered: 2-2001 |
I work for a large (but shrinking rapidly) corporation; among the things co-workers have been nailed for: over-heard jokes; screen savers of race cars w/cig ads on them; calanders w/buff pics of either sex on them, political discussions, and so on. No one fired, no one sued yet... But we have the right White House admin and Supreme Court makeup to overturn some of the more absurd rulings How�s this for a legal argument: a 'hostile work environment' created by overly sensitive people, i.e. 'PC' becomming so pervasive as to inhibit employee's creativity, that employees are continually working under an oppressive cloud of fear and intolerance that directly affects their work product and mental health, the direct or indirect result of fellow employees whose mental state is such that any acknowledgement of their existance is perceived as harassment.... (Cosmo or one of those mags did a survey asking readers to track for 24 hours all the sexual harassment they encountered. Among the more common 'harassments': having a male smile at them, and say 'hi'. Things are bad when a person can be considered in violation of harassment laws just for showing common courtesy!). | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3293 Registered: 2-2001 |
some laws can still be wrong like the 55mph speed limit, or racial laws of the 50s or slavery. Just because they are laws doesnt make them correct laws. This PC scheiss is a great example, yes its a law, but its wrongheaded & stupid | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3291 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ahnold won regardless of patting butts , Maybe there is hope for reason. Could PC finally be starting to go away? | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 511 Registered: 7-2003 |
There's an awful lot of insurance companies offering Employment Practices Liability Insurance (EPLI), and citing "a joke" as a reason to have it. Told any of your employees a joke, or do your employees tell each other jokes? Mind you, it doesn't even have to be you telling the joke, nor do you need to be there when it's told. It only takes one employee to be offended and they have a case (read: Name your poison. If you ain't insured, you're settling either out of court or in court.) If you go to court, that's when an employer becomes keenly aware of Principal's Vicarious Liability. Here's an old article from The Washington Post that made Column A1 - (suit was filed and settled in '95, article dated March 18, 1997) Chevron Corp. was sued and paid 2.2 million because of an e-mail circulated within the company that listed 25 reasons why beer is better than a woman. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1038 Registered: 6-2002 |
Noting with intrest how Art threw down the gauntlet, and nobody's really picked it up and cited an actual case. I'll be intrested to see if anyone can come up with something relivant that actually went to court and came back out. Really. It's amazing how six guys on CNN can tell the world how "life is" and 60million people buy it. PS: Omar- yep, Chriterion novel. Good stuff, one of his best even. That and Sphere seem to be a cut above the rest of his work. PPS: Girl told me I had nice legs a while back, was actually pretty neat. Gay guy slaped me on the ass once, I considered it a compliment. I've been pinched, poked, tickled, all in good fun. Grow up people! (now true harassment, ie physically restraining someone to see "which is bigger" etc, that is simply WRONG and indeed criminal as it should be.) Also, at first sign that simple playfullness is not welcome, it should cease. Best! Ben. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 969 Registered: 2-2003 |
Ok Art, how about a former employee at my company who was fired last month for inappropriate behavior that was first initiated by the female employee? It just so happens, this female employee has been transferred from 2 different positions/departments in the same office this year and was told she's on her last department transfer after encouraging this behavior either physically, verbally, over e-mail, and/or in jest. So what happens when John Doe takes the bait? He's fired and she's still employed. There won't be a case number, sorry. I happen to fix many computer problems for this female employee over the phone and we consider each other friends. However, all the while, there is a little voice inside my head reminding me to choose what I say very, very carefully. Sunny | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 612 Registered: 11-2002 |
Art - I can'tgive you names, cause it was a few years ago, but here's a case: A guy in the Corps was joking with a female marine in his office. He said the word "b!tch" while joking with the female marine. The female marine continued to joke with him, and was not offended. However, another female marine in the office, who was not part of the conversation, was offended by the word and filed charges against him. He was given office hours (a low-level military punitive hearing) and was demoted from Lance Corporal to PFC. I was witness to the event, as were various other marines, male and female. Everyone thought it was bogus save for the offended woman, who simply HEARD the word. Art, you can hide your head in the sand ALL YOU WANT. The fact remains that YOU ARE A BIASED INDIVIDUAL, as you have made various millions of dollars trying these cases. Your word is no better than a racist saying that black people are inferior. Finally, the cases that make the headlines are the ones where the guy is found guilty. The ones that are thrown out after long, legal battles get no press. I've experienced what I'm talking about, so I don't need to do extensive legal research that, in my opinion, STILL wouldn't change your mind if I posted them here. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 898 Registered: 3-2002 |
Art: Cmon alot of big corporations in the USA as you are already aware of, have a sexual / feminine joke policy that employees are required to sign. It states that sexual harassment ( jokes ) will not be tolerated. They even make movies showing what is and what is not acceptable. Basically you better not say a word. Somebody has to have already been canned over that one. Perhaps it was an excuse because someone did not like the employee already, and they drove a sports car that was not painted red ? LOL | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1524 Registered: 5-2002 |
Name one case, with names, case numbers, etc. in which Charles Manson or Adolph Hitler were convicted of murder. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2693 Registered: 6-2001 |
I love reading this crap. Name one case, with names, case numbers, etc. in which someone got fired, sued, otherwise punished for telling one improper joke. Just one. Give me the facts. You won't be able to find it. The closest you'll get is the claim that male firefighters put up nude pictures of women in the work environment, and kept them there after numeous complaints from their woman coworkers. The rest of this is propaganda, untrue crap. One case, one person's name, that's all I ask. I'll be quiet if you can get a verifiable name, etc. I'm betting none of you can do just that. Art | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 689 Registered: 9-2002 |
I have to agree with Nebula...There was a case here in Canada involving a super intendent of a builing, were these women did not like the guy for one reason or another. They decided to file sexual harassment charges against him. He spent almost 2 years in the court system trying to prove he did not do this. He was found not guilty but now is life is basicly ruiend. The fact is that it is so easy for women to accuse a man of sexual harassment, and it is up to the man to prove his innocents. It's not up the women to prove he's guilty. That part is already assumed. How again is this equality? | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 611 Registered: 11-2002 |
DES - you can't just take a portion of a sentence out of context without referencing the rest of the sentence. Here's my ENTIRE quote: "A man could be fired for making a harmless joke that is taken the wrong way by some Feminazi-Tree Hugger" Now, the point of the sentence was that some woman who is bitter towards men/hates men could look for ANY reason to claim sexual harrassment and WIN! That's WRONG, and only a Feminazi (notice I DIDN'T say feminist) would take that route. A women simply looking for equal treatment probably have more class/tact than your average bleeding-heart NOW Fembot. Again, dude, you gotta read the whole post. I never said any woman looking for equal treament is a feminazi, nor have I ever said that ACTUALLY sexually harrassment of a woman is not a bad thing. | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 394 Registered: 5-2002 |
Equality is GREAT, but there is no equality. The fact is that women's actions towards men are not treated the same as men's towards women. The way things are set up now really blows my mind. A man should be reprimanded, but not fired and his company have his company be forced to pay 10 million dollars because he makes a rude comment toward a woman. Sure, repeated behavior should result in a firing but for situations such as those - huge amounts of money? Give me a break. If it is really hurting the women that much to hear that a guy thinks she has a nice butt/rack, she has other, more major problems that need to be attended. This does not just stick with the women issue either. The PC'ification of our society is getting out of hand. Just like in the other thread a few days ago, Rush may have made a stupid comment, but it being made into such a big deal is, for lack of a better term, stupid. In BIAS by Bernard Goldberg, he talks about how newspaper writers are forced to include specific minorities for quotes in their stories. They, at times, have to go to great lengths to find someone who fits the role that their boss wants them to fill - sometimes making up names and quotes in the process. Another incident that comes to mind from the book deals with writers who are forced to refer to someone as "African-American." Only in this case, the person was British! Give me a break guys, African-American? Most blacks are no more African-American than I am Italian-American. They are simply American, and if one wants to refer to them in a more specific manner - black. I may be opening up a can of worms here but this PC stuff has got to stop - it is getting out of control. | ||
| Dan Gordon (Ferruccio)
Member Username: Ferruccio Post Number: 264 Registered: 2-2003 |
I have no problem for women sticking up for themselves. If they want to be TREATED equal I think that�s great. But if we are different we can�t be equal. The fact is that woman and men are genetically different from each other. THIS IS A SCIENTIFIC UNDISPUTABLE FACT. The fact is men (as a whole) are stronger, more competitive, better problem solvers, better with directions, etc. its not a stereotype it�s a fact (IE hunter gathers). Women (as a whole) on the other hand are better at detail oriented tasks, better multitasks, better at taking care of children, etc. again not a stereotype but a fact. Look it up in any science book, studies, etc. The thing is we are like apples an Oranges�..were SO different. We evolved in completely different ways. Men evolved to spread their seed and then they are expendable. Women were designed to live longer and raise the children. This is how are species survived. Women are more important than men are to the development of are species because they need to live long enough to raise children. This is not sexist, raciest or any other form of discrimination. It�s scientific fact. Another fact is there are women out there who can do everything a man can. BUT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6988 Registered: 8-2002 |
Nebula, you were almost making sense until you said that... Feminazi...? Are you referring to feminists/feminism...? Tree hugger...? What the eff you see kay does being a feminist or a 'tree hugger' have to do with sexual harrassment...? i think it's great that women, specifically, and women, as a whole, ae standing up for themselves and doing whatever possible for male/female equality... i think it's total bullshit that if a woman sues an employer for sexual harrassment, she's a cold, frigid •••••/feminist nazi/tree hugging lesbian dyke dildo jockey... Its about time women stood up for themselves EVERYWHERE since people like you obviously don't think they should. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 609 Registered: 11-2002 |
DES - the PC police have gone waaaaay overboard. I don't think there is one member of this board who would condone grabbing the tits of a female coworker. I don't think there is one member of this board who would condone the firing of a female coworker because she would not go on a date with you. What we are complainig about is the fact that now, a male coworker could be fired and held liable for damages if he happens to look at a woman in his office the wrong way. A man could be fired for having sex with a coworker who later decides she made a mistake. A man could be fired for making a harmless joke that is taken the wrong way by some Feminazi-Tree Hugger. That's where the problem is, DES. And it IS BULLSH!T, plain and simple. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 608 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mfennel - Firing those responsible would strike fear in the hearts of the people acting poorly. Fire one guy, the message is probably not taken seriously. Offense occurs again, and now a second person is fired. The message is taken a little more seriously, but still, an event occurs. Finally, a third person is fired. Now, three high-paid lawyer/CEOs/whatever have been kicked to the curb, lost their licenses and/or stock options within the company. Think the practice would continue? Would YOU watch YOUR actions if three of your co-workers got canned for sexual harrassment? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6959 Registered: 8-2002 |
All this bullshit about being PC is bullshit, is bullshit... Why don't some of you try to have some friggin' respect for once rather than complain that the world is hard on you 'cause you're no longer allowed to grab someone's ass or tell them they have nice tits... | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 180 Registered: 7-2001 |
Huh? http://www.gtla.org/public/cases/baker.html The point was that the situation went far beyond "he said I'm cute". Your point about firing people is noted, but how does that compell a corporation to act to create a non-hostile work environment? "We're going to have to fire Bob if he doesn't stop grabbing tits" doesn't have quite the same ring as "we're going to get our asses sued if Bob can't keep his hands to himself." I agree things have gone too far the other way but that doesn't dismiss the legitimacy of the original case. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2689 Registered: 6-2001 |
DL: Alread is a trip. We got a group of clients that refused to advance her $500 to review their file. Put over 1M in fees over their case. Art | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 443 Registered: 7-2003 |
Remember I mentioned Gloria Allred? Now she has grabbed Rhonda Miller as a client. I wouldn't be surprised if she was on the 11 o'clock news tonight. DL | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2684 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mennfell70: What you don't know, is that the managing partner of Baker, when deposed, said that he told Marty Greenstein that if he did it again, he kick his ass to china. When asked in deposition (by me) if he thought Palo Alto was China, he made a smart remark. That and other things led to the decision. There weren't just 6 woman, there were by my count at least 15. The 6 were the ones used in the declaration to obtain permission to investigate his financial background (CCP 3295), something rarely granted. I'm told by someone who knows, that when they saw those declarations, they said "We're ••••••" Art | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1516 Registered: 1-2002 |
Mark- I get where you're going. PC-ism seems to be the social black hole of the new millenium, and the allegations against arnold have a funny way of springing up days before the election (that's a load of bullshit, IMO of course). There's shade of gray to every case of assault, harassment, etc. and true, over the last 50 years the attitudes have changed, but you can't really relate the 1950's to 2003; the social paradigms were different as a whole. What I'm saying is that, knowing that you could get a few years in the pen for "touching" a woman, it's a good idea to excercise discretion and remember it's not your body; we're all keen enough to get a womans attention without need to grab her ludely; it's the other half of the population that can't come to terms with actually "talking" to a woman, and they're the ones that are made example out of, and as a result you have these case where women are paid out millions for repeated, unwanted advances. Sad, but true. | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 391 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think that it is wrong to grab a woman, although one must look at the situation in its context. If the woman is inviting the behavior and then turns around and sues the man, this is not acceptable. I also do not think that a man should get in trouble for just making a comment toward a woman (within reason of course). At my brother's freshman orientation they told him that if they called a girl "hot" they would be suspended for sexual harassment - is this not a bit over the line? I also do not think a woman deserves 10 million dollars for being groped - give me a break. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 913 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hugh- I started this thread for one reason. I was trying to pin down the date that PC and sexual haressment came into mainstream. It seemed dumb and pointless to frame a man for a crime that when he did the act, was not considered a crime. Ass patting looked at through the eyes of a 2003 person, seem to be a HIGH CRIME... but don't time travle back to the past. People that don't want Arnold should find a better reason to turn down his bid for Gov. P.S. I never got girls by being GOOD-Looking. I got girls by being smart. I can only wish I was good looking  | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1513 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>Men its are job to sort them out and stay away from the high-strung whack jobs. << Hey, no one said they were perfect, but just b/c you think you're the sexiest animal ever to expose chest hair, doesn't mean you're equally endowed with the right to pat, rub or otherwise "molest" a random womans body. It's not your body, so keep your hands off it. If you haven't got the intellect to arrest the womans interest, then you can't default to a cheap grab. That's my point. What if Ms. Ulsterman (age 84, 300lbs and needing some touching up) off the 4th floor kept "accidentally" rubbing up against your johnson in the elevator? Would you find it "cute" day in / day out? "...whoopsie. oh, but marky boy, you're so cute..." *squeeze* It's not always who you want touching you that will, get it? | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 912 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hugh- I have enough problems living down here in Miami, near South Beach. Every time I go out to look at the Hot topless models on the beach...some gay guy trys to strike up a conversation. I've never been gay, so I tell them I'm here for the chicks and I move along. But I don't fall apart. Then the old ladies in my building start with the cute boy stuff. Always feel young in Florida when your Condo is full of 80 year old ladies. I think its cute. I have been frisky and had lots of great times with lots of wild sexy young women. I have a thing for gals with PhD's. Its amazing how some women are sooooooooooo cool and some are just so hair-trigger. Men its are job to sort them out and stay away from the high-strung whack jobs. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1511 Registered: 1-2002 |
Okay Mark, next time you're in San Diego make sure you grab a drink at "wolfies." And, then tell me how you feel about unsolicited "affection." I can't wait to hear about how you endeared yourself to the "locals." Oh, and 99% of the guys that condone this sort of behavior are far from the idealized greco-roman stautes you imply, a rude fact you'll come to learn at "wolfies." Have a good time, tiger. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 911 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hugh- "I guess all you guys defending an ass grab wouldn't mind a 350lb gay guy grabbing onto your brass, right?' If he was the hottest movie star in the world, and running for one of the largest political offices in the world. He could pat my ass, and I'd at least have a good story to tell you guys... "I was standing in line and Warren Sapp slapped me on the ass and said I had good legs" Oh, I'm so devastated. My life is ruined. I am a weak emotional flower [GIVE ME A BREAK, WOMEN CAN BE SUCH DRAMA QUEENS...yeah right 25 years later.] | ||
| John Ashburne (Jashburne)
Junior Member Username: Jashburne Post Number: 83 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jim That's why I said Willy got the pass from the women's rights groups, not that he got a completely free pass from the legal actions against him. Art All I was pointing out was that one's political party affiliation appears to carry more weight with women's rights groups than the severity of the action, or the fact that the action was proven in a court of law. I don't recall much furor from that front with WJC. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1509 Registered: 1-2002 |
I guess all you guys defending an ass grab wouldn't mind a 350lb gay guy grabbing onto your brass, right? I like Arnold, and I'll vote for him, and I think all this "sexual misconduct" reporting is "well timed." But that said, I do, however, think it's unacceptable to touch a woman, sexually, unless she happens to be with you -- proximity isn't a sufficent disclaimer. Keep your d!ck in your pants, and your hands to yourself; that's how I was raised. ps: a man once grabbed my girlfriends ass, and made a lude comment to her while we were at a bar, and I was in the restroom. He never quite "looked" at the world the same way. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 602 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mfennel - winning an argument is REAL EASY when you take sh!t out of context. Come back when you're willing to argue to points made, not the points you've made up. Thanks, and have a nice day! | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2001 |
"In a pivotal charge against former Baker & McKenzie partner Martin Greenstein, Rena claimed that he dropped candies in the pocket of her blouse, groped her breast, pressed against her from behind and pulled her arms back to "see which one is bigger." Weeks worked for Greenstein for 25 days and was transferred after she complained. She resigned about a month later to take another job. Greenstein, who attracted much business to the firm, was not dismissed or otherwise disciplined until well into the litigation. At trial, seven other former employees of the firm testified about improper advances by Greenstein. The law firm's own witnesses admitted that they knew Greenstein had been dogged for years by complaints of harassment. In some instances, the firm had not bothered to talk to employees who had complained. Greenstein's conduct was concealed because the firm kept complaints in the women's files rather than Greenstein's. The jury found that the law firm knew of Greenstein's harassing behavior and failed to rein him in. Jurors calculated punitive damages by taking about 10 percent of the firm's capital." | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 434 Registered: 4-2003 |
Art, I suspect that sexual haressment cases will keep you and a small army of Arts busy for many, many years. Being the father of a son and a daughter has allowed me to see at least both sides of the man/women story. I have no doubt that men have been harassing women since Adam and Eve. I also have no doubt that some women actually want to be harassed, by only by the right man. One person's haressment is another one's flirting. Indeed, when folks look back at the 20th century, one thing that will stand out (in addition to Ferraris, of course)will be the Pill. It changed everything and changed nothing. It made women equal to men, in a one sense of the word, but the sexes can never be equal. Men don't have babies. We are still going through the adjustment period. When I was a college professor in the late 80s, I made a deal with another professor to have office hours at the same time so that we could each see into the other's office whenever we met with a student. Yes, things had gotten that bad. When you add the fact that many young people traditionally meet their future mate at work, the picture just gets more interesting. I'm just glad that I'm happily married. I would not want to be dating today. When you add STDs to possible data rape and sexual haressment charges, it is a changed world. Dale | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 592 Registered: 11-2002 |
No problems, Art. None at all! Well, I am a little tired, but other than that, feeling fine! Thanks for asking! | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 2202 Registered: 11-2002 |
Guys, Art does bring a valid point to the table. Grabbing or patting someone's ass should only be acceptable in very select circumstances. The important thing about this argument could be context and to a higher degree, truth. Also, when you're on the sh!t end of the stick I'm sure people like Art are invaluable. If these people who stepped forward were full of crap then all these arguments are moot. It is sort of interesting how they're all popping up now that Arnold is running for mayor a looooooong time after any of this allegedly happened. I don't know if these women were married at the time or not, but I remember in my single days having female friends who I knew well enough and had good enough relations with that butt patting was altogether normal in certain situations. I've also been to parties where some Hollywood types were present and women THROW themselves at them. You should see how cautious some of these guys are because of their fear of ending up in the news with sexual assault charges. I don't have a problem with people who settle for tons of cash for getting wrongfully groped. Along with the groping, especially in the workplace, comes a lot of uncomfortable feelings for as long as you stay there. The problem I do have, is with women who welcome this sort of behavior and when it happens, go out and crucify the guy. I've seen this happen too. An acquaintance of mine has made a nice living egging on unsuspecting white collar types and then suing the crap out of them. She now has a pimp pad in South Beach and will probably never have to work a day in her life. She's 28 years old now and pretty much planned this since she hit the workplace out of college. Cheers | ||
| Telson (Pitbull_trader)
Junior Member Username: Pitbull_trader Post Number: 80 Registered: 8-2003 |
Art, I guess what is REALLY riling some rightwing gentlemen here is the fear, and personal insecurity and fear of life and everything to do with life is what explains these people in the first place, what really freaks them out now is real fear that their neoconservative appointment with history will be no more than a short lived abberation as America is finally waking up to what they really stand for: "New York Times Shaking the House of Cards By BOB HERBERT Published: October 3, 2003 No wonder the sky-high poll numbers for President Bush have collapsed. The fiasco in Iraq is only part of the story. The news on one substantive issue after another could hardly be worse. It's almost as if the president had a team in the White House that was feeding his credibility into a giant shredder. Despite the administration's relentlessly optimistic chatter about the economy, the Census Bureau reported that the number of Americans living in poverty increased by 1.7 million last year, the second straight annual increase. During those two years, the number of poor Americans has grown by 3 million. Belt-tightening is also in order for the middle class. The median household income declined by 1.1 percent, a drop of about $500, to $42,400. It was the second straight year for a decline in that category as well. Per capita income decreased, too. It dropped by 1.8 percent, to $22,794 in 2002, the first decline in more than a decade. Boom times these ain't. On Monday we learned that there had been a steep increase last year � the largest in a decade � in the number of Americans without health insurance. The international outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas is reporting that job losses in the U.S. have resulted in a sharp decline in the number of dual-income families, particularly for those with children under 18. And so on. With the federal government piling up massive deficits and local governments struggling to provide the most basic of services (some areas are closing schools; others are releasing prisoners prematurely), Mr. Bush is asking the nation to go much further into debt in the service of some vague notion of a civic renaissance in Iraq. Even Republicans are beginning to ask what the heck is going on. Contributing to the growing sense of unease in some quarters and outrage in others is the blatant war profiteering in Iraq by politically connected firms like Bechtel and Halliburton � profiteering that is taking place with the scandalous encouragement and connivance of the Bush administration. A front-page article in The Times on Tuesday said: "A group of businessmen linked by their close ties to President Bush, his family and his administration have set up a consulting firm to advise companies that want to do business in Iraq, including those seeking pieces of taxpayer-financed reconstruction projects." Iraq is proving to be a bonanza for the Bush administration's corporate cronies even as it is threatening to become a sinkhole for the aspirations of ordinary Americans. The vicious release to news organizations of the identity of an undercover C.I.A. officer could serve as a case study of the character of this administration. The Bush II crowd is arrogant, venal, mean-spirited and contemptuous of law and custom. The problem it faces now is not just the criminal investigation into who outed Valerie Plame, but also the fact that the public understands this story only too well. Deliberately blowing the cover of an intelligence or law enforcement official for no good reason is considered by nearly all Americans, regardless of their political affiliations, to be a despicable act. According to an ABC-Washington Post poll, nearly 70 percent of Americans believe a special counsel should be appointed to investigate the leak. Now that so much has gone haywire � Iraq, the economy, America's standing in the world � the tough questions are finally being asked about President Bush and his administration. Perhaps foreign policy was not Mr. Bush's strength, after all. And even diehard Republicans have been forced to acknowledge that the president was surely wrong when he insisted that his mammoth tax cuts would be the engine of job creation. And nothing has ever come of Mr. Bush's promise to be the education president, or to change the tone of the discourse in Washington, or to deal humbly and respectfully with the rest of the world. Americans are increasingly asking what went wrong. How could so much have gone sour in such a short period of time? Was it incompetence? Bad faith? Loud warnings were ignored for the longest time. Now, finally, the truth is becoming more and more difficult to avoid." http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/03/ opinion/03HERB.html Coupled, of course, with this: "Poll Shows Increased Doubts About Iraq War, Bush WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Most Americans now believe the Iraq war was not worth it, according to CBS News/New York Times poll released on Thursday which showed a sharp fall in public confidence in President Bush's ability to handle foreign and economic policy issues. Just over a year before the Nov. 2004 election, a solid majority, 56 percent, of Americans thought the country was seriously on the wrong track, the poll found." http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp? floc=NW_3-T&oldflok=FF-RTO-rontz&idq=/ff/story /0002%2F20031002%2F213349161.htm&sc =rontz&photoid=20031001CDH111 Best, | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2683 Registered: 6-2001 |
Nebula: What's the matter? Flunk out of school, bad hair day, or just feeling poor? If you can't behave, you should keep quiet, don't you think? Your posts are getting more, and more childish, keep showing us just how stupid you really can get: more obnoxious posts will do quite well in that regard. Art | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 433 Registered: 7-2003 |
Nebula, Don't fault Art for that! If not him, some other attorney would be right in there for the contingency fee.... and God forbid he would be a Porsche enthusiast! DL | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 590 Registered: 11-2002 |
Art - Thanks to lawyers like you, who get women $8.78mil for being harrassed at work, it's a "get rich quick" scheme. It exists, and should be stopped. The person responsible should be FIRED, plain and simple. I would assume that some hot-shot CEO getting FIRED and loosing ALL stock options and stocks would send a clear message, right? But thanks to you (how many sexual harrassment cases have you sat on?), women see it as a free ticket to wealth. "He said I'm cute! I want to sue! Where's Art???" "He looked at me funny! I need $10mil! Where's Art???" If it were my mom/sister/girlfriend getting groped, I'd go kick the guy's ass. That's what a real man does in order to defend his mother. A weak-suck, panty-lined vagisil b!tch like you takes them to court. I'm done with you. You can go. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2722 Registered: 10-2002 |
John Bill did not get a free pass. He was impeached. History will remember his oval office blow job more than anything else he may have accomplished. He campaigned for Davis. People don't care what he thinks about the Calif. recall. He has to live with Hillary. That in and of it's self is IMHO punishment enough. As for smacking women who don't want to be smacked it was and remains a criminal matter. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2682 Registered: 6-2001 |
John: What in the world does that have to do with this? That's a your mother wears combat boots type of argument. When you were a little kid, and you'd done something wrong, your excuse, everyones doing it, didn't hold much water did it? Same deal here. Art | ||
| John Ashburne (Jashburne)
Junior Member Username: Jashburne Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2002 |
Interesting that Slick Willy Clinton's behavior toward numerous women was far more offensive and much more well documented and yet he essentially got a free pass from women's rights groups. I guess his charisma with women is real! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2680 Registered: 6-2001 |
September 1994. Rena Weeks was awarded 8.78 million for sexual harrassment by a San Francisco jury, who felt that when a large law partnership assisted a partner in his childish behavior towards women, that a message needed to be sent. We're all taught in kindigarden that we should keep our hands to ourselves. It's a lesson we tend to forget, as we get money and power. This commentary about PC is clearly BS, if it were your mom who was getting groped, I'm sure you'd not approve of it, nor would you appreciate your wife getting gropped. This is bad behavior, and we should not condone it for one second. Putting a good face on it, by calling it PC is foolish. None of us would tolerate this if it was family, and those who commit this behavior need help, the're ill. Art | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 431 Registered: 7-2003 |
Well now...Maria...hmmm. Now there is a topic unto itself. She's lookin a bit like Beetlejuice lately, huh? No matter though. Her pedigree got her a man anyway (looking like that) and that is more than I can say for Paris Hilton. Wow, was that sexist????? DL | ||
| Ryan Alexander (Ryalex)
Junior Member Username: Ryalex Post Number: 124 Registered: 8-2003 |
Maria can't be surprised - I remember seeing her (Tonight Show?) and she told of when she met Arnold... it was at a tennis match (Wimbledon? US Open?), Anyway, the very first words out of Arnold's mouth were "You haave a nice aahss." And she fell for it. | ||
| Manu (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 854 Registered: 2-2002 |
I'll smack what I ••••••• want... | ||
| thomas daniels (Castex)
Junior Member Username: Castex Post Number: 105 Registered: 6-2003 |
Why am I not surprised at the consensus here on this issue? PC=bad. That was easy. Let's live on in our own little world where every woman is dying for us handsome, fun-loving ferraristi to pat her bottom and have a good feel of her tits like that loathsome, musclebound knucklehead who'll soon be making california's decisions. Get a grip! Um...No! Don't! This sort of behaviour has never been acceptable to anyone who has ever respected or wished to be respected by women. These are unsolicited sexual approaches! Not even a how-do-you-do! I despair of this section, and of the mentalities displayed herein. Bah! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3275 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm sure youve noticed how the media morons distorted the english language by saying "sexual harrisment" instead of "sexual harASSment" dopes I wonder what we'll get when this PC crap dies. Maybe men will have to register their schlongs as potential weapons LOL I think I'm moving back to Buenos Aires for at least a few months a year after law school, where men can be men & you have none of this PC BS | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 336 Registered: 9-2002 |
It got to far out of hand in the 70's, males where harrasing females and getting away with it. Now its to far out fo hand the other direction Just like racism, Indians, slavery, afermative action, ect. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3274 Registered: 2-2001 |
My rule is if in doubt just ignore them | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 484 Registered: 7-2003 |
Instead of saying, "My, you look nice today." Say, "My, you look psychotic today." | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Intermediate Member Username: Peters Post Number: 1589 Registered: 1-2003 |
I support laws that support TRUE sexual harassment in the workplace, but so often, the 'rules' get out of hand. Bottom line, the biggest group of people that cry the most about this are the ones that are too butt-ugly to get laid on a regular basis. I think its a shame in our current times that a professional businessman can not compliment a female co-worker about their appearance in the office without worrying about having a SH lawsuit tossed in his lap. | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 408 Registered: 8-2003 |
ENOUGH,ALREADY,with the "Politically Correct" BULLSH*T in society! In ALL aspects. It has gone on WAY too long! It's about freakin' time that people just grew up and acted like adults,and started ignoring things that they don't like,instead of whining and crying like babies. No. Real "Sexual Harrassment" is definitely not something to take lightly,or laugh about. But,it seems that these days,some,and I said,SOME,women are very selective about who they can and cannot take "compliments" from.I read an article in the Chicago Sun-times years ago,where they did a study. They had young,good looking "professional types" pay "compliments" to ladies. Then,had some Grubby,beer-bellied construction types pay the same "compliments". Guess what? the "professionals" were almost always accepted with a smile. The construction workers were ignored,frowned at,or flipped off. So,women... Go figure! And,no matter what the scenario. Having "AHHNOLD" saying,"Nice AHHHSSS!" is either a compliment,or hilarious! And,speaking of beer bellies and six-packs. Does Arnold still got his? (six-pack?) | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1048 Registered: 9-2002 |
Ben, isn't that a Chricton book? | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1006 Registered: 6-2002 |
Guys- go rent/read Disclosure. Brilliant and pertinant book, especially when written. Best! Ben. | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 420 Registered: 7-2003 |
Gloria Allred is the TV attorney here in LA who crusades for those who have been discriminated against. She is on the news and she goes only for high profile cases...most recently Amber Frey (Scott Peterson's strange) DL | ||
| Dan Gordon (Ferruccio)
Junior Member Username: Ferruccio Post Number: 247 Registered: 2-2003 |
Everyone makes mistakes. If grabing a girls but is the biggest that Arnold made he is a very moral man. There are some girls that really do get sexually harased. These girls who do file it at a drop of a hat are the ones to blame for the crazyness that is called being PC. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3271 Registered: 2-2001 |
Who is Gloria Allred? On second thought I'm sure I dont care | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 417 Registered: 7-2003 |
You can thank Gloria Allred for all this penny-ante discrimination BS. It is HER fault...LOL DL PS. Anyone see Disclosure? | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Junior Member Username: Kds Post Number: 244 Registered: 5-2003 |
All I have to say is how on earth do you get elected in "Italy" if pinching a woman's posterior is an issue ? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3268 Registered: 2-2001 |
in most parts of europe, asia, & south america men are allowed a lot more leniancy & respect. | ||
| Peter Gozinya (Blingmeister)
New member Username: Blingmeister Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2003 |
Any year that a prominent Democrat might lose a prominent political office in an area normally "safe" for Democrats to count on retaining power. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 576 Registered: 11-2002 |
I know that my first year on the Corps, 1994, was filled with five-hour-long sexual harrassment classes. It was NON-STOP, and all the saltier dogs in the room were like "WTF is this? I never went through this as a boot..." I think it was Anita Hill's testimony. And Jim E is right. It's a double standard that is simply rediculous. Now, I've never patted a woman on the a$$ for no reason, but I do remember once this guy called a lady friend of his a b!tch in joking manner, and she laughed about it. No big deal, except another woman in the room was offended and filed sexual harrassment charges against the guy, which stuck, and he was demoted. Hey, no big deal. We're white men, and we've got the world at our fingertips, rigt? I mean, we're SOOOOO powerful and FORTUNATE, not to mention sexist, greedy, and back-stabbing. We can take a little, rigt? | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Advanced Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2663 Registered: 7-2001 |
Within the last year I've sat in meetings when I was the only male in the room and I've listened to women discuss in graphic detail what they'd like to do to a male coworker. If it were a room full of men having the same conversation in front of a woman, then it's sexual harrassment. Welcome to the 21st century. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 477 Registered: 7-2003 |
The women I saw on TV (either) Making the claim (or) Protesting against Arnold (are) Butt-ugly*. *Ugly-Butt-Ugly, not to be confused with Nice-Ass-Ugly | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1045 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mark, it still is. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 900 Registered: 10-2001 |
Des- if you watch and old show called Three's Company with the late John Ritter, you will notice that in the 70's 80's respect was different. LOL I have now heard two hot actress's laugh and say that Arnold didn't slap there butt and they are now wondering whats wrong with them? Or why their not good enough. Women are fickle silly sometimes. William-" Clarence Thomas ...Anita whatshername whined about him coming on to her" Chris Rock had such a good joke at the time. Anita, would have told all her girl-friends it was her lucky day, if it was Denzel Washington instead of Clearence Thomas. Sexual Haresment laws only apply to ugly guys. (it was a funny joke at the time) | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6887 Registered: 8-2002 |
There's this old saying (not in English- don't ask me, i don't know how to say it), but it pretty much translates to: "Go **** your dead relatives." That's a pretty nasty thing to say to anyone, but there's no law that prohibits me from saying it to someone; i think that sort of applies here; maybe there was no 'law' back then that said that smacking some random woman on the buttocks was illegal/immoral/inappropriate, but it's just the idea of the whole thing... i think it's a respect issue... i know absolutely nothing about law nor do i have an answer to your question, i just wanted to throw my two cents in... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3265 Registered: 2-2001 |
its been pretty much downhill for the American male since then | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3264 Registered: 2-2001 |
when the Supreme Court Judge Clarence Thomas was sworn in by Bush 1 I believe & that silly secretary Anita whatshername whined about him coming on to her | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 898 Registered: 10-2001 |
I see winning the CA election is all coming down to women who's lives have been devistated because Aronld gave them a pat on the butt. I'm glad the guys in the NFL are not so sensitvie about that butt patting stuff. But my question is serious. What year did Sexual Haressment, and sexual harsment in the work place come into effect. I'm too young to figure it out? Seems to me they made a big push in the 90's ? Any Corp. guys out there? I just think its funny we are holding him to todays laws, standards and norms.. for things he did 10 20 years agao when the norms didn't apply. |