| Author | Message | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 236 Registered: 9-2002 |
>>Hmmmm, WOnder if I can get my Ford dealer to take a Countach in as a trade ? << william: too funny, i want video when you take that bad boy to your local ford dealer. he!!, you probably could act like someone really famous, charge for some autographs and make some of that "premium" you'd have to pay!! that said, i love the looks of the car. but i agree with earlier notions that there is no way prices will stay anywhere near what the initial pop will be. if i could buy puts on the price, i definitely would ;) | ||
| tony hopkins (Tonyh)
Junior Member Username: Tonyh Post Number: 229 Registered: 12-2002 |
FROM EVO MAG-------- Ford GT veryone has an opinion about Ford's all-new, 40-year-old supercar. For some the GT is just a cynical rip-off of a design classic, whilst others look upon it as a brilliantly evocative homage to a milestone in Ford's 100-year history. It is both controversial and familiar, which is an odd combination. But make no mistake, it is a serious supercar. Ford could no doubt sell the entire planned run of 5000 GTs on looks and image alone (production starts in second quarter of 2004; just 85 cars will come to Europe; the UK has been allocated a mere 25) but it has striven to make the GT as good to drive as it is to behold. The small team responsible for making the GT aren't shying away from making bold claims, either. According to Fred Goodnow, who headed up the GT's design and engineering team, their goal was simple: 'To make the best car in the world in its segment.' Rewind a little to the Detroit Auto Show in January 2002 and that target seems wildly ambitious, for as good as the GT concept looked, it was a million miles away from production reality. At least, that's what the top design and engineering staff at Ford thought until Bill Ford saw the public's reaction to the car, the publicity it attracted and the sheer blinding obviousness of tapping Ford's rich history as it approached its 100th birthday. The Ford GT was given the green light. And it had to be ready for the centenary celebrations in June 2003. Build a supercar from scratch in one year. That was the task handed to John Colletti (director of SVT) and Neil Ressler (ex chief of vehicle technology; Ressler came out of retirement to consult on the programme). Together they assembled a team of boundless enthusiasm, ability and focus and enlisted the help of key engineering partners to solve the difficulties of such a short development programme. Mayflower supplies the superplastic-formed aluminium body panels, Metro Technologies fabricates the aluminium spaceframe chassis, Roush developed the engine, while Ricardo supplies the transmission and Lear the interior. The constituent parts are assembled by Saleen (Mustang tuner and now supercar manufacturer in its own right). It's a very different process from that of a high- volume Ford production car, which would be developed almost entirely in-house, but it does have its advantages: the last thing an emotional product like the GT needed was decision-making to become bogged-down with endless committees and big-company politics. The small GT team worked independently and instinctively. If it felt right it was in, if not they thought of another solution; just like supercars of old. As the dappled California sunshine begins to break through the early morning haze and gently picks out the fluid curves of the GT I'm already smitten. The proportions are perfect, the stance aggressive but not brash; it has a brutal edge but the elegant sweeps of aluminium are still delicate enough to fascinate rather than offend. If the GT doesn't move the art of car design on one iota, so what? It is simply gorgeous, one of the great shapes, and in bright red with two solid white stripes running from nose to dramatic Kamm-tail, it's one of the most tantalising pieces of moving art in the world. Once I've walked around it, cast aside any last traces of cynicism and been hopelessly seduced, I press the rubber button that electrically releases the door. It feels light, flimsy even, and, as it swings open, I catch my first proper glimpse of the interior. The sills are fairly narrow and the seats are quite a drop down. They mimic the original GT40's ventilated squabs and seat-backs yet don't look particularly authentic. The dash, too, clearly takes its inspiration from the '60s racer. Behind the large steering wheel, a rev-counter redlined at 6500rpm takes centre stage; the speedo is angled towards the driver but positioned right at the end of the instrument cowl, directly above the transmission tunnel. It goes all the way to 220mph. I love the no-nonsense ambience, though some of the materials look a little cheap. Once you've dropped into the driver's seat it's easy to get comfortable. You sit low but surprisingly upright; the steering wheel is both reach and rake adjustable and the pedals are perfectly placed. Despite the GT's low roofline (44in) there's plenty of headroom. Twist the key and the dash flickers to life; depress the brake pedal and clutch (this is an American car, remember), prod the red starter button to your right, and the dry-sumped 5.4-litre supercharged V8 awakens with an angry bark. On tickover it sounds fantastic, as deep-chested as you'd expect but with a definite edge that the lightly-stressed V8s you hear at every set of traffic lights in America can't muster. Blip the throttle and the revs flare quickly and noisily before returning to a rock-steady idle. Into first and you'll notice the gearbox's long throw, the lightness of the clutch and the immediate swell of torque that makes slow speed manoeuvring stress-free. Within a few hundred yards it's clear that there won't be too much pottering today, though. I have Neil Hannemann, chief programme engineer of the GT, sat beside me and ahead is God's very own stretch of road - the Pacific Coast Highway. It runs the length of the US West Coast and is as sinuous and testing as any European road I've ever encountered. There are huge camber changes, sudden and violent surface transformations and everything from tight second-gear corners, cut deep into the huge jagged rocks, to never-ending 100mph-plus sweepers, all hanging a hundred feet or so above the shimmering Pacific Ocean. The speed limit is 55mph, a pace the GT can comfortably exceed in first gear. Fortunately the annual Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance has busied the local police and it's before 8 o'clock on a Sunday morning. Moreover, I'm British and therefore immune from foreign speed limits... At least, I hope I am, otherwise I could be detained by Uncle Sam for a very long time. The GT is a rocketship; 500bhp and 500lb ft was always going to mean fireworks but studying the numbers can't prepare you for the savagery of the retro Ford when it's allowed to slip its leash. What's more, you can use every last drop of grunt at will. It has staggering traction, thanks in part to enormous 315/40 ZR 19 Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar rear tyres - there's not even a whiff of wheelspin as the chassis loads-up on the exit of a corner. The supple rear suspension is invaluable here, too, pressing the gumball tyres hard into the surface as the weight shifts rearwards and you slingshot on to the next corner. The grip and stonk are complemented by the deft weighting of the controls and crisp feedback through the steering. Approaching yet another tightening third-gear corner, the huge Brembo cross-drilled discs (355mm front, 335mm rear) are chomped hard by the four-piston callipers. There's a bit of dive but not enough to upset the GT's composure and it locks onto line with no understeer, the steering relaying a constant stream of information about grip levels, encouraging you to get progressively on the power and to start working those huge rear Goodyears. Mid-corner the balance remains neutral with just a hint of stabilising understeer to nudge up against, and as you spot the exit you can really give the engine its head. The understeer disappears as the corner opens out and the GT calls on its huge reserves of power to chew up the next straight, the V8 working hard, the noise smashing into the scarred scenery like a hammer drill. It's a truly American soundtrack; the screw-type supercharger has been deliberately hushed so there's no whine to undermine the thunderous V8 bellow. This stream of thumping acceleration, massive retardation and torso-contorting cornering-g flows for mile after mile and the GT just eats up the road. Only on sharp ridges of broken tarmac does it hint at losing its composure as the front wheels skip a few millimetres above the surface. The brake pedal is firm and consistent, while the steering, which at first seems a bit aloof, becomes more intimate as you get closer to the limits. The chassis feels so composed that you can't help but revel in the ability and security of the GT. The aluminium structure feels fist-tight, allowing the suspension to work each corner of the car to its limit. Through faster corners all four tyres are whooshing in unison, just on the verge of a gentle slide. I can't think of many supercars that would feel so devastating and yet so friendly on such a short acquaintance. Hannemann is a great passenger, especially when you consider that this is his baby and there are only a few GTs currently in existence; this car probably owes Ford over $1 million. Formerly of Chrysler, he worked on the original Dodge Viper and the Le Mans-winning Viper GTS-R before switching to Saleen where he was charged with transforming the S7 racer into a road car. He's rightly proud of the GT's dynamics: 'We looked at the Ferrari 360 as the image car if you like, and the Honda NSX as the benchmark in everyday usability, but with the chassis we just went our own way. We wanted lots of grip but a really predictable set-up at the limit with the tiniest trace of understeer.' You'd like Hannemann; he's an incurable enthusiast and doesn't mind praising the opposition. He clearly has a soft spot for the Ferrari: 'I love the 360; the noise and looks, but it's difficult to drive at the limit. We wanted the GT to be faster and easier to drive for less skilled drivers but still a real challenge for people who'll drive them hard.' The GT I'm driving is pretty representative of customer cars but Hannemann is still tweaking damper settings and is keen for feedback. We discuss everything from brake feel to gearbox action (the GT's weakest link) but he's most animated when I inadvertently yump the GT. It grounds out as we crash back onto the road, something that's never happened before; he'll look into it and make the necessary changes - not that you'd ever deliberately replicate the incident. Continued Muscle Definition Ford GT By the end of my stint behind the wheel I'm convinced that Ford's new supercar is much more than a pastiche of the GT40, more than able to stand comparison with Ferrari's 360 and Porsche's 911 Turbo. Dynamically it's spot-on, I defy anyone not to fall in love with its looks, and the performance is immense. Ford reckons it'll hit 60mph in 3.7sec and the ton in just over 8, though in the four days I spent with Ford folk nobody talked much about the GT's sprinting ability - odd given the market's obsession with 0-60s and quarter-mile figures. But then the GT is too well resolved to be defined by figures. It beats its homegrown performance benchmark, the new Viper, but that's incidental to the development team. As Ford employees, many of them may never again work on a project as exciting and free of constraints as the GT. This could be their one shot at making a genuine supercar, their legacy. If it is, then they can rest easy. The GT is a belter. Words/Pictures: Jethro Bovingdon/Andy Morgan Comments: 0 Article from: evo     | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
Member Username: Manatee Post Number: 382 Registered: 6-2002 |
Something tells if you contacted Ford Marketing and told them you would like to trade your 360 in on a GT but couldn't find a dealer, the marketing folks would find you a dealer in exchange to use your story in print, etc... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3334 Registered: 2-2001 |
For $150k you could get an Ultima GT which weighs about 1,000# less than the get with the same hp  The Ford GT is still way cool though | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 938 Registered: 10-2001 |
Not to bad looking  | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3330 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yummm, Ford GT = Schwing!!!!! | ||
| Nathan Edward Kreegar (Nathan_kreegar)
New member Username: Nathan_kreegar Post Number: 39 Registered: 9-2003 |
With hydrogen power right around the corner, I'd say the market for a hybrid car would probably be worse than a 150 thousand dollar Ford. As long as Ford has a dependable I4 of some sort going for it, why a hybrid over an I4? Hybrids get what about 50mpg. While alot of I4's I know get upwards of 40mpg atleast. If 10mpg makes that large of a difference, I'd say transportation is the least of your worries, and I'd probably suggest using the local mass transportation, or carpooling. Also TVRfreak... There are bolton 03 Cobra's running over 600RWHP and thats the Blown DOHC 4.6! (yes, that just with boltons) With that, I'd imagine there's going to be even more potential in a blown DOHC 5.4, so dont shoot the Ford GT's power plant out of the water just yet. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2769 Registered: 10-2002 |
Doody A few thoughts and facts. The originals were race cars. The street versions were 9 MKIII's and a few (maybe 10 MKI's) and not all of those sold at first. The demand at the auction where the first customer car was sold for 557K was very strong. It opened at 100K. I bid 200K. It went to 557K in less than one minute. No one who was bidding cared about trading in a car to buy a Ford GT and if they did any dealer has access to wholesaler's. Many Ford dealers will simply keep theirs on the floor to bring people into the dealership. In the beginning the price will be very high. Most importantly this will be a very good car. I have been asked by at least 20 people for help in getting one. There is a real demand for this car. After a while the next new thing will come along and supply will meet demand. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1001 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hybrid technology is about as profitible as a supercar with the lack of support from the other manufacturers. You can risk it and capture the niche market for a hybrid vehicle early in the game, or, you can spin a one off halo car that has generated a LOT of interest and captured plenty of deposits. They are repackaging old technology and redesigning old methods, not starting from (near?) scratch creating a hybrid vehicle (not cheap) which may or may not sell at all with the Honda's already out there (and not taking the roads by storm either). Keep in mind that the alternate fueled/electric car projects are being yanked by GM and others and support from the State and or Feds has also been cancelled. This isn't going to go anywhere for a while. If the bean counters really thought there was a better profit margin in hybrid cars, they would have gone that route. You don't have a lack of people with that kind of influence/vision/hands on the checkbook of Ford without having approached this possibility already. Let them try. Maybe they will pull it off, even if it is "Just a Ford." Be thankful they kept busy with the slump in the Premier Auto Group and their own sales to go full boar into Formula 1 or Le Mans again. Sunny | ||
| Dr. Ken Lee (Kenster888)
Member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 337 Registered: 4-2003 |
It looks ugly. I would not buy it. I think the car will depreciate faster than DES' heartbeat when looking at an Enzo FORD is in trouble. They will not make much money (if any) on the GT and the GT will not turn the company around. They should focus their engineering on hybrid technology for the mass, not hp war against Ferrari. Big mistake IMO. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1079 Registered: 9-2002 |
A Saleen version would be kool. | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
Junior Member Username: Rampante Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2002 |
I heard that there will also be a Shelby varient of the Ford GT. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1930 Registered: 11-2001 |
i'll concede that, upon review, my post smacks of some brand bigotry. however, i believe my underlying point remains valid. if the cars are going at the dealer for 2X or some outrageous overages, they will outstrip demand in the short run. if they plan to produce 1,500 cars per year, i think they will outstrip demand in the long run. i don't think the ford engineers and designers involved did anything but a stellar job on the new GT. my apologies for implying otherwise! i'm sure the taurus guys had little to nothing to do with it . like most consumer goods though, in the long run, the problem here is quite possibly not product development; the problem may very well end up being marketing. remember, the GT40 had no marketing issues. they only built [gets up from his desk to grab his ronnie spain book off the shelf] 133 of them. if 1,500 a year is the right number on the new GT, that's ONE MONTH of production in comparison. ford is trying to play a very different game here. it's the same game ferrari plays today, but ferrari has never stopped playing it in the the 35 years since the last GT40 was produced. ferrari knows how to play this game and they just so happen to be, for better or for worse, quite good at this game. they are, at a minimum, "well practiced" . so, to clarify my point, once supply outstrips demand, i don't see how ford will be able to market a $150K car well. i think that when and if they get to that point, they should just halt production, because the other potential solutions are very likely to negatively impact the people who've already purchased. furthermore, one could abstract that assertion to say that they should build the pre-orders plus some reasonable follow-on sales based upon returns in the first quarter or two and then call it a day. my two pennies! doody. PS: william makes a stellar business point. if you want to deal in six figure cars, you better be able to DEAL in six figure cars. or can you only buy a GT with cash on the table? quick poll (tongue firmly planted in cheek): how many of you have bought six-figure pre-owned ferraris at ford dealerships? buehler? buehler? anyone? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3321 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hmmmm, WOnder if I can get my Ford dealer to take a Countach in as a trade ? | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 964 Registered: 3-2003 |
Wow, yes, I never thought it would be even more powerful. That power in a sorted chassis would definitely rock! OK, time to buy American again! Thanks. | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 699 Registered: 11-2002 |
James - I agree 100%. There are two examples to look at here: the 2000 Cobra R and the 2003 Cobra. Both were advertised as pretty damn powerful, but in real life, the advertised flywheel HP numbers turned out to be pretty damn near the real life rear-wheel HP. This car, in my opnion, will ROCK. The Cobra R pulls 1.02g's, and that's using a 25 yar old chassis. Imagine what this new chassis will do! And I really like the fact that they are using the engine/supercharger combo. The engine is capable of producing over 600hp, but Ford chooses not to tap the full potential in order to keep the thing semi-reliable. I love F-cars, but the fact that each F-car engine is nearly tapped and stressed from the factory is what causes the expensive and time-consuming maintenance issues. This car should be damn fast, should handle like a dream, and, barring and serious defects, should be pretty damn reliable. When you get yours, let me know! I'll hitch-hike my way up to New York to drool over it. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2768 Registered: 10-2002 |
Fisal Think about what you said. The answer to your question is within your question. This car will have MUCH more HP than people think and will be MUCH faster than people are expecting. This is not the last Ferrari fighter you will see from Ford. If someone really wants one they will be able to buy one for list. Think about TR's in the begining they sold for a premium but as production continued towards 5000 the price dropped. Why wouldn't Ford build as many as they can sell? | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 698 Registered: 11-2002 |
I don't understand the issue with Ford here. Isn't Ferrari just a FIAT? The same philosophy holds true: Ferrari, while owned by FIAT, is built on a completely different assembly line than any other FIAT. It is also designed by completely different engineers that every other FIAT. Do you honestly think that the same dude who engineers the Taurus day-in-day-out took a break to go and design the GT? Chances are, Ford used in-house employees from SVT to create the GT, and SVT is, for all intents and purposes, a completely different entity from the rest of Ford, which uses only a car designed by Ford and the resources as Ford's command to create things like the Cobra and Lightning. It may say Ford, but that doesn't mean that it is the same thing, or anywhere near the same level as Ford's other cars. If it had a different name, but was still built by Ford, would there be the same issue? | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
Junior Member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 178 Registered: 3-2002 |
Doody, I will agree with you. I drive a Ford and I am content for daily transportation, but I would not spend the money for the GT. I do like the idea of building to order with no two being exactly alike. But it still seems to me that this car is an expensive updated replica of the original though. | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 213 Registered: 9-2002 |
Doody, why so brand snobbish? Ford has no experience marketing $150K cars? You're missing the point. These cars (yes, non-Ferraris) have HISTORY with the GT40's racing success. As a result, buyers with $$$ will seek them out. Ford doesn't need marketing. I doubt we'll be seeing many Ford TV commercials peddling rebates or factory-autorized clearances for GT's. It won't matter if they make 1000 or 5000. Also, it is clear that the GT has the 360 in its crosshairs. It supposedly will be faster, handle better, etc for less money. What's wrong with that? | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1929 Registered: 11-2001 |
it seems to me that if the supply exceeds demand, prices will crash big time. i don't think "a ford" can support a $150K price point. they'll sell them to the wackos (like us) and then once demand dries up, who the hell is going to buy them? it's not like ford has any experience whatsoever marketing $150K cars. i think they should only build them to order - that's the best way to give the buyers some sort of protection and keep the dealers and ford from getting hurt in the long-run as demand slows. but mr. ford didn't call me for my opinion ;-) doody! | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 697 Registered: 11-2002 |
I know the owner of a very large Ford dealer in SoCal. Chances are, he's getting one. He got one of the 2000 Cobra Rs, of which only 300 were made. If you are serious, Doody, I can make an inquiry or so. Let me know: [email protected] | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 969 Registered: 2-2002 |
Don't waste your money trying to be first on the block. They're going to build 1500/year and there isn't enough demand, so these things will be available at list price or less before it's all over. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1928 Registered: 11-2001 |
well 2X is way in excess of "left nut". this sounds silly. it is after all, a FORD ;-) doody. | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 962 Registered: 3-2003 |
At least double. So $300k easy. At that price point, it's not worth it. A Gallardo, ugly as it is IMO, would be a far better value. If you can wait till 2005, put a deposit down NOW on the baby Aston, the LM V8. I think that is the sexiest car I have seen lately. And it won't whine like a GT40 when you cane it! | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Intermediate Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 1238 Registered: 5-2001 |
$50 -100 k for initial flippers.The first one made and sold at auction albeit for charity went for $550k plus.Madness?? | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 288 Registered: 3-2003 |
Recently bought an Excursion and made a point of asking the sales manager at the Ford dealership about getting a GT. Did everything I could to convince him I was a real buyer. He pointed out (i) more dealers than cars, (ii) if the dealership could get one, HE'D buy it and (iii) I was about a year late even asking about the car. This was not a particularly big volume dealership. Amazing car. What do you think the quick flippers will ask for it? | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 961 Registered: 3-2003 |
They are giving priority spots to those willing to part with the most cash! I asked a while ago, and most dealers had no details. It seems as if the top dealers will be getting the first allocations. Ford is rumored to be planning a production run of 3,500. I have also heard 5,000. I think they intend to milk it, with various limited editions and commemorative editions, and special paints and interiors, etc., for as long as they can milk it. I am disappointed at the engine size and supercharger that they used to produce the 500 bhp. Seems like a low specific power output. Does that mean the engine is not stressed much, compared to, say, a 360? Will it last longer? Or is it just old technology? It's a sexy car. There was a nice show about it on TV last night. They have cleaned the bumpers up, but no rear bumpers would be infinitely better. I like the toggle switches and metallic interior. I like the cutouts in the doors so you don't have to crane your neck if you are trying to get in while wearing a helmet. I like it's brooding, hulking, wide squat. And I loved the way it looked as it glided down the leafy road as I arrived at Pebble Beach. That one was a stealthy, graceful black. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Intermediate Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 1040 Registered: 7-2001 |
I agree...that car is absolutely kick-ass!! This car made me say "wow" on 1st glance....can't remember the last car that did that to me!!! | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1925 Registered: 11-2001 |
so has anyone driven one yet? it sounds like the test mules are out and about? ford says they're only going to make 1,000. do folks believe them? i have to say, based on what i'm hearing/seeing, i might be willing to part with my left nut for one of these things. are all 1,000 sold or not? are they giving current GT40 owners priority spots? doody. |