| Author | Message | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2819 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jack: I hadn't looked at the posts for a while, but let me comment on your PC bashing for a second: 1. There was no outrage about athletes, there are significant genetic differences in those black athletes who excel: as to the sprinters, etc. there is a larger % of quick muscle tissue, than the average white athlete. The Russians attempted to breed the difference, Valrie Borzof (sp) was an example of that. Worked sort of. 2. There are genetic difference between the races which everyone acknowledges. California just defeated a proposal in which race would not be mentioned, because, in part, that medically there are differences, and the same thing in various schooling applications. No PC there. 3. Having said that, there are significant difference is various black sub-cultures. My understanding of how whites and asians came to exist is this: about 40k of people immigrated from Africa some tens of thousands of years ago. The net effect is that for whites and asians we are not anywhere near as diverse genetically as the people from Africa. Therefore to make the statement about black is to over simplify the situation: some blacks are genetically better at sports, a good many aren't. Some diseases are special to certain racial groups: sickle cell for blacks, as an example, tay-sacks for jews (I know not a race, but still a somewhat uniform group), etc. It's a lot more complicated that we make out here. Art | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1170 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jim I think you are right. Ted Kaczynski was a nut job though his use of triple entendre is interesting. | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 228 Registered: 8-2003 |
It's official: I hijacked the thread from Terry. Then Frank hijacked it from me. Now I think it's been hijacked again. So that's a hijack to the third power? Didn't think it was possible. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Intermediate Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 1013 Registered: 3-2002 |
It is so easy to sit back and pick at what other people write. Kinda makes you look smart. | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
Junior Member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2002 |
MarkPDX >Ok, so you are a foreigner and english isn't your first language, You misunderstood, you are also the foreigner (or exotic if your prefer), and English is your only language. >your posts still don't make much sense. That which is new seldomly does, initially. However, as Terry Springer indicated, desire if truly vital refuses itself nothing. >Are you recomending that we all read Marx while having sex to purge our brains? (recomending -> recommending)  Feel free to proceed as desired. The comment "Komputers relearn by having new programs read in. Brains need sex" is in my profile under occupation, ie. I am asserting that the principal human occupation is a social one. Jim Muise (Writerguy) >I get the impression that this guy is about as deep as our little pi$$ant Mr Green. Mr.Green may be equally pleasant were your rapport more cordial and less diminutive. (I am assuming you desire that Mr Green is more pleasant, which may not be the case) >I re read his rambelings and there is no thought that goes with the typed crap he is putting in here. (rambelings -> ramblings) Jim, although difficult to ascertain from your reductionist mumbo jumbo, I expect your command of the English language is above average, given you consider your self a writer. Take the time and understand this: "80 percent of what any LGN cell listens to comes not from the retina, but from the dense interconnectedness of other regions of the brain. The encounter of these two ensembles of neuronal activity is one moment in the emergence of a new coherent configuration. Other partners, such as the superior colliculus, or the corollary discharge of neurons that control eye movements play an equally active role. Thus the behavior of the whole system resembles a cocktail party conversation much more than a chain of command. In other words, whatever the brain looks at is really about 20% of signals from the outside world and 80% of old templates, filters, memories and beliefs about the world. This is an uniform principle throughout the brain." Ie., it is solely your responsibility to understand (as reflected in others' comments apropos of AA). >I don't think that English is the biggest thing this character is trying to grasp. >L try the Unibomber Manifesto It might help with your grasp on reality. I am sorry to hear that American 'fruitcakes' are on your list of pedagogical literature. Here is my recommendation to you http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465013775/qid=1067296205/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6316329-0585666?v=glance&s=books You may also enjoy Antonio Damasio's books. After all, you were not born to live like a brute. Higher order consciousness is a beautiful thing _and uniquely_ human. Human language is syntactic and signals consist of discrete components that have their own meaning. Syntax is a prerequisite for taking advantage of combinatorics, that is, making infinite use of finite means. In syntactic communication all words must be learned but syntactic signals enable the formulation of new sentences that have not been learned beforehand. | ||
| Jim Muise (Writerguy)
Member Username: Writerguy Post Number: 277 Registered: 9-2003 |
Mark i don't think you are going to get anywhere with this one. I get the impression that this guy is about as deep as our little pi$$ant Mr Green. I re read his rambelings and there is no thought that goes with the typed crap he is putting in here. I don't think that English is the biggest thing this character is trying to grasp. L try the Unibomber Manifesto It might help with your grasp on reality. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1163 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ok, so you are a foreigner and english isn't your first language, your posts still don't make much sense. Are you recomending that we all read Marx while having sex to purge our brains? | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
Junior Member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2002 |
>Mark, I don't think English is Luciano's first language, >look in his profile doesnt make a great deal of sense (spell computer with a K!!!) `Komputers relearn by having new programs read in. Brains need sex` During and immediately after sex oxytocin is released which in both males and females is a precursor to the formation of new meaningful bonds replacing and augmenting prior ones. This is extremely significant as humans do not otherwise have an efficient delete key, as one may readily ascertain from the discussion in this thread. eg. Frank's comment: "refuse to change", AA etc. Klar? (clear?) >(spell computer with a K!!!) Blimey, a foreigner!!! Apropos, in your profile according to queen's English shouldn't "If only I'd made it all up I would of saved a small fortune!!!" be If only I'd made it all up I would've saved a small fortune!!! Regards | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 473 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mark, I don't think English is Luciano's first language, look in his profile doesnt make a great deal of sense (spell computer with a K!!!) | ||
| Gary Green (Mr_green)
New member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2003 |
Say what! | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1158 Registered: 4-2003 |
Am I the only one who gets lost trying to read luciano's posts? | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
Junior Member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2002 |
Frank Wiedmann has said >Look at every single thing we have.Tall Buildings. Cars.(thanks for those!) >Planes. Electronic devices. Electricity,for that matter.EVERYTHING. MOST ALL,courtesy of smart,strong American Males. >Crock O'Sh*t,if ya ask me! In that order. | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
Junior Member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2002 |
Terry Springer >Black families are not forced to live in a ghetto. Nobody is forced to live anywhere in this country. >Anyone can pack their bags, hop on a bus and move to some small rural town far from the big city ghettos >and start over. Why don't they >How long does it have to be before we stop all this crap. Im ready for an end to all >the "Miss Black America" and "Black history month" and all the other racist/divisive nonsense. Why aren't they >desire What has happened to their desire Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams. The basis for optimism is sheer terror. It is the individual's task to differentiate himself from all the others and stand on his own feet. All collective identities... interfere with the fulfillment of this task. Such collective identities are crutches for the lame, shields for the timid, beds for the lazy, nurseries for the irresponsible.... >There is no getting away from the fact that AA is racist, pure and simple. >ANY program that automatically favors one person over another on the basis of race is RACIST. Period. >It does not matter what color the person being discriminated against is. In a time of drastic change it is the learners who inherit the future. The learned usually find themselves equipped to live in a world that no longer exists. May find it useful - http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/ampc/abstracts/Hiramatsu.html http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/ampc/abstracts/Lee.html http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/ampc/abstracts/Webb.html >About slavery: The US should pass a formal declaration writing that slavery >was a terrible primitive inhumane practice and issue a formal apology. 1. It would be a convenient lie. The concept of slave labor was not primitive - au contraire. >I think it should end at that due to the time that has passed. It could be that precisely because the time that has passed the lie would be met with "warm compassionate" smiles. Mirrors at times outlive their owners ... Africans brought to the Caribbean and South America in slavery were allowed to keep their drums and songs in religious ceremonies. Africans brought to North America were denied use of drums after the Stono slave rebellion in South Carolina in 1740, because the slave masters were frightened by a mode of communication that was beyond their meager understanding (Wilson 1992) At the peak of his triumph, the culmination of his machinic erections, man confronts the system he built for his own protection and finds it ... dangerous. The law stated: use a drum in public, lose a hand. >The US should pass a formal declaration writing that the invasion of other countries etc etc ... Mirrors generally outlive their owners ... | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1500 Registered: 3-2002 |
It bothers me that you can't even discuss positive differences between people any more without the PC-ers getting all twitchy. I remember a while back when the issue came up about why black athletes are generally faster than their white counterparts, and whether it was due to physiological differences. It caused a big stir because, no dammit, we're all exactly the SAME, and besides, saying they're faster is racist and insulting because it labels them and types them as only being capable of fulfilling athletic roles in our white-controlled society. F**k. So what if they can run faster. That's awesome for them. The concept of social sensitivity has been hijacked by political correctness and its thought-challenged proponents who are so proud of themselves for thinking the world is made up of one homogenous species. | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 579 Registered: 8-2003 |
I don't know,Jack,it's just gotten way out of hand. Like Dave's picture. "They" are trying to emasculate us guys,who,are innately born the way we are. To be strong. Leaders. Not a bunch of "yes dear" followers.  Sure,"they" can TRY to dress us up as namby pamby weaklings,but,just don't call me Shirley! | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3139 Registered: 1-2002 |
 | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1490 Registered: 3-2002 |
But Frank. Without political correctness, how are people supposed to know what to think? ;) | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 576 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks,Ricky. You know,it IS hard to express your opinion these days,without being labeled a racist,or sexist or whatever.(which I am none of) And,why should it be like that? Minorities and women and whoever else,seem to be able to express THIER opinion of a "select group of people". Why can't I,WE,do the same!? Crock O'Sh*t,if ya ask me! Time for us guys to quit being like Phil Donohue,or whoever the first guy was who became a sensitive wuss. Men were born to be strong. Leaders. Look at every single thing we have.Tall Buildings. Cars.(thanks for those!) Planes. Electronic devices. Electricity,for that matter.EVERYTHING. MOST ALL,courtesy of smart,strong American Males. And,more specifically,White American Males. And,I am damn proud to be one. I'm not going to cower behind this Bullsh*t called "Political Correctness". I wasn't raised that way,and refuse to change. Why should I? To make the "minority",or,minorities,and women "pleased"? Hell NO! This crap has gone on for way too long now. And it's time we spoke up for ourselves and be men. Not sensitive,"politically correct",wusssies! Sure,you CAN be Strong AND sensitive. But,society is trying to eliminate...supress... the "Strong" part,which,comes naturally to most men. Dag nabbit!!! John Wayne, Sean Connery,The Rat pack,Charles Bronson,Clint Eastwood,And I can go on and on. These guys did not,and do not cower to "Political Correctness" | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 435 Registered: 5-2002 |
You are so right Frankie... well put | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 572 Registered: 8-2003 |
All I can say is that the Public schools in the old,West side of Chicago,where I grew up in as a kid,were old when we were kids. (but I went to a Paroachial school) My Parents and Uncles went to the Public schools. The Schools,the Parks,the old houses...all were "nice"... Until the neighborhood changed. Now,I drive through there once in a while (during the day) and it's a run down Ghetto. Why? Why does it HAVE to be that way? The people who lived there before the neighborhood changed,were poor,too. But,they had PRIDE,and kept up their property and parks and schools. So,why then is it a Ghetto now? The people that live there now,have the EXACT same opportunities and education,etc...as the people who lived there before did. Also,I have to agree with the other posters who mentioned things like,"Miss Black America" pageants.And,"Black Music Awards" and such. Hell be it if there was a "Miss White America" pageant. Or,"White Music Awards". Etc...The shouts of "RACISTS" would fly like the wind. I mean,come one. Whats called or considered "Racist" for one group,should be the same for the other.Right? A funny thing that I noticed with Minorities,and,even women's lib.organizations. They all say that they want to be treated as "Equals" Right? I assume that that means,"Equal" to White,American Males,who,if you havent noticed the past few years,have really been "taking it on the chin",so to speak. Anyway,they all want to be treated equal...PROVIDING that they also have their special perks and requirements,and wants and needs and demands. They want the best of both worlds. "Treat me like a lady AND an Equal" " I can hit you,but you can't hit me" (which,I was brought up NEVER to hit a lady) But,look in those James Bond movies from the '60's. Sean Connery would slap a woman,and it was O.K.,then. Or,"treat me like an equal,but,give me special priveleges,too". But,in life,and as the Rolling Stones once said, "You can't always get what you want". DEAL WITH IT! They all want it both ways. What would happen if all of the White,American Males in this country,stopped being so "Politically correct" and started standing up for themselves and acted like men again...without being afraid of "backlash"? Like how it was in the "old days". I'll bet that this country would change for the better. Ofcourse,in my opinion. I am not a racist. But,am tired of seeing White American Males being pushed around. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 991 Registered: 3-2002 |
Joe it looks like interesting readings. I read quickly the first listing. I will get back with you. Take a warthog; which is a fierce animal in the wild. Domesticate the warthog and it becomes a ? | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 203 Registered: 8-2003 |
Ralph, Art, Terry, others...any comments on the Thomas Sowell columns? | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 189 Registered: 7-2001 |
I was up in arms for some time about AA and other programs, then I had the fortune to have several different african american roomates. The each had near-daily negative experiences. Then there were the two young college-educated fellow engineers I was working with. One told me that there were "too many ni**ers" in his neighborhood as the other nodded his head. These guys just expected I would feel the same way. The guy at my local bagel shop was bitching to two other customers about how many "porch monkees" lived in his neighborhood. Again, assuming I would not be offended by this. What does that say about your average white American? People like that exist everywhere. I see AA-type programs as a necessary evil. | ||
| Michael C. James (Mjames)
Junior Member Username: Mjames Post Number: 156 Registered: 6-2003 |
My Great, Great, Grandfather paid my family's debt for the sins of Slavery on the fields of Gettysburg. Screw reparations, and the morons who ask for them. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 849 Registered: 4-2002 |
Joe, Im not saying there is no racism out there. Clearly there is. There is racism against people of every race including white people. There is also descrimination against fat people, ugly people and people with bad complexions. Does the Govt. actively support programs to promote any of these groups over another? No. The only group that demands and gets special treatment is blacks. There will always be some racist out there. There are always fruitcakes who just dont have a clue. But the overwhelming majority of Americans could simply care less what color your skin is and they are sick of hearing about it one way or the other. The best way for the black community as a whole to fight the last vestiges of racism today is to simply prove them wrong. That means standing up, taking full responsibility and not demanding equality.... but TAKING equality. Most black individuals seem to be doing this despite all the efforts of the race pimps (great term!) to keep them under the influence of the cult of the victim. | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 195 Registered: 8-2003 |
I want to acknowledge another reality: it's a tough balancing act. On the one extreme, there are the minorites and liberals that are convinced that everything that is dysfunctional with group x is group y's fault, and group y must do this that and the other thing to make it right. At the other extreme are the middle and upper-middle class white males that are convinced that everyone has the exact same opportunities and society is a colour-blind and gender-neutral true meritocracy. Both positions are based on false assumptions - the truth is somewhere in between. Despite that, AA, busing, quotas and the like are not the answer. | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 194 Registered: 8-2003 |
Ralph, I'm sure that it isn't as bad as it used to be, but from what I have seen and read, the inner city schools still lag far behind in facilities and opportunities. Perfect example is the computer facilities that the kids have access to. In the wealthy suburban schools, the computer labs are stocked to the rafters with great gear and each kid has his/her own PC to use. Back in the ghetto school, they'll have a couple of left overs with no real instruction....I have to emphasize though, that this is an over-simplified example of a very complicated situation, and I'm not making excuses for anyone - I'm just trying to acknowledge some realities. I know this looks like a lot of boring reading, but at least read Part I; I suspect you will be intrigued enough to continue with the other parts. Each part will take about two minutes to read - it's a very interesting perspective on the failure of AA to accomplish anything other than to sow the seeds of divisiveness. Thomas Sowell sometimes goes too far, but for the most part, he drives liberals and race pimps crazy because he is black, highly educated, conservative, can't stand AA etc. etc. By the way, a "race pimp", for those that haven't heard the term, is a person whose livelihood depends on maintaining strife and turmoil between the races. Thomas Sowell, "The Grand Fraud" Part I: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell040103.asp Part II: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell040203.asp Part III: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell040303.asp Part IV: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell040403.asp | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 848 Registered: 4-2002 |
Art.. Black families are not forced to live in a ghetto. Nobody is forced to live anywhere in this country. Anyone can pack their bags, hop on a bus and move to some small rural town far from the big city ghettos and start over. There is no getting away from the fact that AA is racist, pure and simple. ANY program that automatically favors one person over another on the basis of race is RACIST. Period. It does not matter what color the person being discriminated against is. How long does it have to be before we stop all this crap. Im ready for an end to all the "Miss Black America" and "Black history month" and all the other racist/divisive nonsense. Why is a blank for race even on a college or job application? We dont ask for eye color or hair color on official documents.... so why do we ask for skin color? I could care less what color your skin is. If your skin is lime green and you have bright orange hair, I may stare a bit at first but I sure wont automatically assume your genetically inferior and treat you like a sub-human. Its time this country grew up. All the bleeding hearts need to realise its ok to stop feeling guilty for something one group of dead people did to another group of dead people. If some people still want to descriminate based on skin color, screw them they are only hurting themselves. Its time this whole "cult of the victim" crap is exposed for what it really is. Politics. Pure and simple. Keep people poor and dependant on the Govt. dollar..... you keep them in your voting pocket. The Liberal politicians in this country dont support AA and other such programs because they are all warm and fuzzy about helping the underprivaledged.... they do it to maintain tight control of a good sized voting block. I do see changes in this though. The ever growing black middle class is clearly not made up of those depending on Govt handouts and programs to make it. Its made up hard working individuals who make it on their own. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 985 Registered: 3-2002 |
Greetings Joe: Is the problem of ghetto school/inner city school problems today as bad as it was years ago ? I have ZERO information about the problems associated with ghetto schools. I assume the elected school boards run the school districts in most cities. I know in Houston, the elected school board consists of mostly minorities. I assume they are distributing the funds evenly for the most part to the schools in their districts. I have NO DOUBT that just a few years ago many school districts always found ways to distribute the best funds for the affluent areas. Certainly there has been very good progress to spread the funds around evenly. I do not think that a child from a ghetto school is automatically going to be lost and forgotten from the day he/she starts pre-K. If this is the case, the elected school boards are doing a poor job. I am aware that obviously there is still funds being protected for the special affluent areas in some parts of the country. Some of these children need to look within to get out of poverty. Interesting question you posted in the third paragraph. Do not forget that a lot of the immigrants came to this country legally and illegally without even knowing a word of English. About slavery: The US should pass a formal declaration writing that slavery was a terrible primitive inhumane practice and issue a formal apology. I think it should end at that due to the time that has passed. | ||
| JT (Mightymagician)
Junior Member Username: Mightymagician Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2002 |
when equal opportunity becomes reality and not just a pipe dream, then AA and all other similar programs become moot. Terry's example regarding the black female lawyer is one example of this inequality. Before converstion begins, the woman is written off as "underqualified" and a product of a program she may know nothing about, only by the color of her skin. I dont know any factual statistics, but i dont think the number of AA benefactors that successfully complete their programs, then gain enough experience to handle such a case, will justify this type of thinking towards any non-caucasian that walks in the room. As far as reparations go (regarding african americans and the 40 acres and a mule BS), I can't think of any sane person who thinks this is going to become reality. People defruad the government everyday, this was just another passing scam. they'll be caught and prosecuted, big deal. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Intermediate Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 1124 Registered: 12-2001 |
Terry I agree 100%!! James, No flames here, I feel the same way. In college there was a nice young african american lady who won both homecoming queena AND african-american homecoming queen. I don't mind that except that a nice caucasion girl was refused the right to enter the african-african american contest. The catch, she really was african-american, being a student from South Africa. To qoute Dr. Dennis Leary, "shut the fu#@ up and get over it." | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 519 Registered: 7-2003 |
I know Joe, I did. DL | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 193 Registered: 8-2003 |
I didn't make any such comparison. | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 517 Registered: 7-2003 |
How can anyone even begin to compare slavery in the early 1800's to the Holocaust in the 1940's? The Jews were systematically exterminated by the Nazis and today (WITHOUT special treatment or social programs and despite continuing discrimination), represent culture, enterprise, a high level of success and tolerance. Jewish people neither create such rediculous programs nor expect handouts...not even considered a minority. Seems a bit (ahem) skewed to me! DL | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 192 Registered: 8-2003 |
Art, Your example of the ghetto school is a good one. I agree that a kid that has the misfortune of going to such a school basically has no chance. The only way "out" is if he/she is athletically gifted...and of course that leads to a whole different issue, e.g. people being "graduated" that can't read but can dunk the hell out of a basketball. However, Terry is right in that there are plenty of impoverished white areas as well. This just touches on why this issue is so complex. Here's a question (and it is not at all rhetorical): Why is it that East Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Jews, Japanese etc. - all people that have experienced extreme discrimination and racism (but admittedly not slavery in North America) - why is that they came/come to the West and within less than one generation are established in the middle class (or far above it!). I have a couple of theories, but I'd like to hear yours. I loathe racism - I truly hate the fact that people can be pre-judged based on their colour - however, whether it is university (student population or faculty), the corporate world, the military, police/fire etc. - one must have the respect of one's colleagues. I cannot think of anything worse that people thinking you don't deserve to be where you are. When I was in law school, there was a black guy one year ahead of me. He was a great student, spoke five languages and ended up at the UN. It blew me away that people that didn't know him or were ignorant just assumed that he was a token. We all know that the children of the wealthy and the connected often end up where they don't deserve to be - happens every day and it always will - but to legislate different standards for different people.....just seems so backwards and counter-productive to me. The people that can more than make it on their own accord resent the hell out of the stigma of AA while at the same time, well meaning but misguided policies put underqualified but "designated" people in a situation where they are a) almost doomed to fail b) garner no respect from anyone. No one wins except some bureaucrat that is happy that he/she is achieving his numbers for so many of x, so many of y etc. I want to add one last thing - one insidious side-effect of AA is that some white males use it as an excuse for all their failures. For some people, it is a ready-made, out-of-the-box, chip on the shoulder. I get tired of hearing phony excuses from some people that need to look no further than the mirror when handing out blame for whatever. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2786 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dave: The real downside for the Japanese citizens of the US was that many of them lost everything they had, homes, businesses, etc. when they were forced into camps. They ultimatley were paid, and if they had died their heirs got the money. Bottom line, is that our government has made mistakes, and those who say get over it, are generally those who didn't get the short end of the stick. I wonder what their reaction would have been had they been put in that position. Art | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2785 Registered: 6-2001 |
Terry: Big city ghetto schools are primarily black, and are notably lacking the same facilities that their suburban counterparts have to use. Until we finally get those items taken care of, we haven't kept our promise to our citizens. Art | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3400 Registered: 2-2001 |
ALL people in the US need to grow up, lay down the baggage & get on with their lives. Many parts of US have turned into such a bunch of PC whiners its disgusting. I guess when a country becomes a superpower their citizens get all soft & start whining about silly garbage | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 369 Registered: 6-2003 |
I know this will probably get me hissed at and verbally abused by some but here goes. If this is supposed to be a non-discriminating civilization why do we have "The United Negro College Fund"? If that is allowed to stay in place, should we not be able to have "The United White Honkie College Fund" or something similar. How about "Miss Black America" being separate from the "Miss America" pagaent even though several women of color have won the traditional contest. What would happen if we had the "Miss White America" or "Miss Hispanic America" contest. How many lawsuits for discrimination would flow from the supporters of the other contests??? There was an event here in Dallas last year that was touted as "For Sisters Only" and their advertising centered directly around our "Afro-American" citizens. Why is all this not considered racist???? How can something as blatant as this be allowed without question. Recently one of the men I work with found out that his daughter who is in her 2nd year of nursing school and making A's and B's will not be allowed to re-enter this year because she is not a double-minority. She is a minority by the fact that she is female but that is not good enough. Now she has to be a female of a minority race. If this is not reverse-discrimination, I do not know what is. What happened with the best qualified, no matter what race or sex, getting the job they are most qualified for? Why do we have to give jobs to those less qualified because of their race? I am sorry, this does not make sense to me. I have friends of all races, religious creeds, genders, nationalities and such. I believe it is totally the person that matters. To heck with all the rest of the stuff. We were all placed on this planet as human beings and that is how we should all be treated. As equals. I know it has not been that way and probably never will but I believe sometimes in trying to make things "right", some things are done all wrong. Whew, rant hat off..... Nomex on...... | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 217 Registered: 5-2002 |
If things are so bad here in our great country why don't those that complain of injustice go back to their homeland. Plenty of flights back to Africa or the Middle East, or Latin America everyday. Poor me ,poor me ,wait till you go back home and find out welfare doesn't exist. You want to eat ? Earn it or go hungry ! We have our problems sure, but so does every other nation. Don't like the conditions here, leave. Can't afford a plane ticket, heck it would be less expensive for us taxpayers to purchase a bunch of one way tickets to the country of your choice, good bye good riddance. Life is not fair , some are members of the lucky sperm club some aren't deal with it. I just hope that the Hawaiian's don't succeed in their plan of regaining control of their state cause I love visiting . | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2119 Registered: 5-2001 |
Intersting, I have followed this "reparations" thing recently, as my parents (American born Japanese) were locked up in "internment camps" during WWII. In the late 80's the federal government paid out $15k tax free to each person still living. The proponents of "black reparations" use this example to justify their case...I think it is much different case, since no people who were directly harmed by slavery are still alive... My dad has stories about getting released from "camp" to join the army...he said it was pretty strange to come back and visit his parents, and pass the barbed wire fences and armed guards wearing the same uniform he was. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 846 Registered: 4-2002 |
Art, There are plenty of "ghetto schools" where the school population is mostly white. Visit appalachia sometime. I wont argue the right or wrong of AA when it was originally instituted. I dont really care. I understand this nation had institutional racism, that was wrong and firm action needed to be taken to eradicate it. However, I feel the playing field has tilted past level. You will always have some portion of any "group" that is not doing as well economically as other portions of another "group". Its called capitalism. Everyone in this country has the same basic opportunity to succeed. The real key success in this country is simple: desire. If you want it bad enough, its there for the taking regardless of what color you are or how poor your parents were. Proof of this is obvious when you look at the success rate of first generation immigrants. I own a small mortgage company. It never ceases to amaze me when Im doing a new $500K purchase for a Vietnamese or Indian immigrant who came to this country with literally only the shirt on their back less than 10 years ago. We see it often. These people have obstacles to overcome that make having black skin look like blank check! AA and other policies have gone on too long. They are now having the opposite effect. Think of it like this: Lets assume you are falsely accused of murder. Someone has set you up and you have been arrested. You call an attorney, they say they will send an associate right over to take your case. The lawyer arrives... and in walks a black female. Now if its me.... Im thinking "oh no!". Why? Not because I despise her based on her skin color. No, its because Im thinking the only reason she ever got into or graduated law school was because of AA! Anyone should think this since the entrance requirements for a black female are much lower than for a white male. Today you have generations of people growing up who never knew segregation, never thought to consider someone of a different race as inferior and have dont see racism in our society. Yet they see one group of people getting preferential treatment over another based on their skin color. So... they come to see and understand what racism is, on a reversed basis. Its time for those wanting to be Equal to friggin quit complaining, stop looking for any handouts, reject their "leadership" that is exploiting them and just BE EQUAL. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2783 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jts: We, as a country continued to discriminate against african-americans until at least the early 70s. The methods used: poor schools, discrimination in housing financing,etc. The net effect of what we did, was that those families didn't accumulate wealth as they should have. The net effect is that their kids, for the most part, lost out on educational opportunities. Since the 70s we've used the government to attempt to equalize that injustice. It's worked, we now have a rather large black middle class, some of them educated at very good schools, holding down good jobs, running large companies, and functioning as a middle class should function. The basic question is when do we stop? At some point, we as a society, need to decide that we've done enough to equalize the playing field. I would suggest that while things are better, we still haven't provided equal schooling, we haven't provided equal opportunity for jobs, and in some, but not all locations, we haven't provided equal rights to our african american community. I would keep the affirmative action in place for a while longer. I would not make it a right, nor would I extend it forever. Maybe when we make sure that ghetto schools are equal to those in the high priced neighborhood, then it might well be time to change the policy, but not until. Art | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 191 Registered: 8-2003 |
Art, Sorry to hit and run like this - have a meeting to go to, but I had to jump in briefly - I feel very strongly that affirmative action is not the correct way to ensure an African American middle class. Affirmative Action (AA) and any and all quota programs are the biggest insult possible to minorities and women that are talented and capable of accomplishing anything they want. Now if we could dispose of AA and also outlaw nepotism (impossible, I know) then we would be closer to a colour-blind society. If there should be any kind of program to "level the playing field" it should be based on economic background, not ethnicity or gender. Yes, I know how easy it would be to manipulate this sytem too. Gotta go - look forward to your response(s). Lots more to say tonight when I get home. Joe | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2781 Registered: 6-2001 |
Are you trying to tell me that the IRS sent them 500k? What idiots. Fools and their money are soon seperated. The only reason those folks got money was because our government is stupid. As for reparations, those aren't going to happen in cash. Affirmative action is a form of reparations, and is doing a better job of making sure we have a black middle class. IMHO Art | ||
| Peter Gozinya (Blingmeister)
Junior Member Username: Blingmeister Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hear hear, Terry. Excellent post. By the way, here is the correct link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031023/ap_on_re_us/slave_reparations_3 | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 845 Registered: 4-2002 |
Check out this moron.... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e_reparations_3 The day slavery reparations become a lawful reality in this country is the day I advocate armed revolution. Dont get me wrong. I am all for reparations. I believe slavery was evil, wrong and tragic. I believe slaves were exploited. I believe reparations should definitely be paid to all ex-slaves... and they should be paid by all ex-slaveowners. Of coarse this is impossible as every member of both groups has been dead for over 50 years. If there is a bigger "im black so pay me" scam going I dont know of it. Im so sick of racism in this country. When a group of people of one race expects special treatment, payment or other action/consideration purely because of their race.... that is racism. The minority black activist community in this country is so racist it makes me sick. A lack of racism means equality. Don't want a racist culture? Then BE EQUAL! That means not asking for or accepting handouts or special treatment! The overwhelming majority of non-caucasian people in this country get this, live by it and have no problem with it. Why do the exploitative "black leadership" groups in this country continue to promote hate, divisivness and outright racism? Fang BTW: Im quite sure that by even putting views such as those above out there in a public forum...... I am going to be vilified as .... wait for it......... A RACIST! And they say facism is dead. |