| Author | Message | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3206 Registered: 1-2002 |
I agree, Rob. Hence, my wording on the post that began this thread..  | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 6744 Registered: 12-2000 |
Come on, you're all smarter than to say all "liberals" are like this. Otherwise you think all Muslims are terrorists and all Christians steal money from old ladies. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 724 Registered: 7-2003 |
Unfortunately, on cnn.com for example, archives only go back 180 days. The Protest which had the offending sign was 226 days ago. Another example of the difficulty in tracking down such info is that the San Jose Mercury News doesn't display graphics, charts or photos on any archival article. As Nebula indicated, the link to Mercury is a note posted that the banner - photo of which was originally posted on the site indybay.org (according to a multitude of right-wing sources) - was removed. Said removal was after links to it were posted by the leftist organization's opposition. If you'll note - the sign was replaced by that of soldiers and prisoners. Tellingly, the rest of the photos in the series were all of the protest on March 15. | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 811 Registered: 11-2002 |
Art - On the page that the link takes you to, there is a disclaimer that the photo in question has been taken down from the website. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2818 Registered: 6-2001 |
Doc: I get the same thing, and when I try to get the picture, it isn't the one shown here, and I don't see any such language. Comments? Am I doing something wrong, or is the link what it appears to be: not the same? Art | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 925 Registered: 4-2003 |
Art, this is what I get. http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/weblog/5478753.htm DrS | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 717 Registered: 1-2003 |
I could see it being true. It's just the extremeist radicals. Same goes for the radicals that want to kill doctors for doing their job. Those type of people screw over everyone else that has valid views. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2815 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thomas: Clicked on the link, but didn't see it. What am I doing wrong? Have you tried the link? Art | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 718 Registered: 7-2003 |
Monkey wrench/ I've seen elsewhere that the sign in question was unveiled on March 15. /Monkey wrench. Mercury News | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2805 Registered: 6-2001 |
I pulled up the Chronicle Article on this march. That article makes no mention of this picture, and knowing my town, they sure would have, if they'd seen it. Here's the link: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/10/26/BAG0G2JKKH1.DTL I have also dropped an email to the authors, asking them if when they covered the march, they saw anything like this. When I get their response, I'll post it. Art | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 707 Registered: 7-2003 |
For what it's worth, the Offending Pic is at bottom right of this left-leaning site. 2 pages are missing from the photo archives. (Pg. 5 of Main March, Page 1 of Breakaway March.) Pic is not going to be linked to directly, as the original large version was linked to from this right-leaning site (with link forthcoming), and summarily removed, as can be attested @ 1/4 way down page. The visible holder of the left staff of the sign is alleged to be Kevin Keating aka Keith Sorel aka Nestor Makhno (pseudonym is named after leader of anarchist guerrillas in the Ukraine during the Russian civil war of 1917-21). Kevin, a published author, is often described a vagrant, sometimes uses the *signature* "for the abolition of wage labor" (his own words). Kind of a bass-ackwards reverse capitalist slave thing. | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 919 Registered: 4-2003 |
Art, my issue is now that you said that none of the sites were credible news sites. If you admit that was wrong, you must then admit that a credible news source believes the photo to be true. DrS | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Member Username: Kds Post Number: 382 Registered: 5-2003 |
Art... Maybe that "bastion" of upright, honest, objective, factual, politically unbiased jounalism, the NY Times has it on their site....LOL !!! On an aside...what kind of people work in a "bastion"....heh....bas***** ?? It's a new age Art, the internet is the next news media, digital cameras and opinionated weblogs also help form opinion now, left wing editors seething with hate and their own agendas are now held to a different standard by this new medium. Newspapers are no longer the only source in town anymore...and certainly, given recent events in the "People's Republik of California", they are also being proven as one of the least credible forms of media and their biases are becoming exposed. Your dismissal of any and all other sources as propoganda is merely more of what I alluded to in my previous post. There are many photographs of signs like that, and even worse ones at protests that I have personally seen.....so to dismiss them out of hand is to merely take the position of an ostrich, and when you do that, a part of your anatomy is seriously exposed as a result. As to Coulter, I offered to debate you on her book regarding Franken's comments, but you were too busy in trial IIRC........and I won't dismiss your statement as a convenient excuse either, as you seem sincere in your words here and do not come across as a "crank". Anyways, she has recently published a column regarding just what I offered to do. http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2003/100803.htm | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3186 Registered: 1-2002 |
ay-ay-ay   | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2804 Registered: 6-2001 |
The first cite didn't have a picture guys. where is the legitimate newpaper with a picture? That's the issue. Indeed if someone did this, its not right, but I haven't seen anything showing that they did. Pictures are worth a 1000 words, where is the picture in a news source, not an opinion column, not a book, in a newspaper. As for Colter. An absolute joke. She wouldn't know reality it if bit her on the butt. She has difficulty determining the truth, but so be it. by the way, has anyone every figured out how old she is, some day 38, some say 40, she says both. Which is right? Art | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3185 Registered: 1-2002 |
...anyone hear from Art?  | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Member Username: Kds Post Number: 381 Registered: 5-2003 |
Art is strongly demonstrating one of the typical liberal pillars of politics....namely..."denial of reality". Anyone here who has not yet read Ann Coulter's best selling new book entitled "Treason" should. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1151 Registered: 4-2003 |
Whether it's real or not in SF I have personally seen a sign with the same message carried by protesters on the streets of Portland. I don't have any pictures and the anti-war protesters have mostly gone away but I will definitely get a shot if I see a sign like that again. | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 917 Registered: 4-2003 |
I should have added that my quote came from this site; http://coldfury.com/archives/001173.php Art the first site is a news agency. I thought the Union-Tribune Publishing Co. was one of the largest news agencies in SD and the secound oldest agencies in California?? I am amazed you did not know this if I did all the way over here in NC. [quote] The oldest business in San Diego County and the second-oldest newspaper in Southern California, The San Diego Union-Tribune is a merger of The San Diego Union, founded Oct. 10, 1868, near the Plaza in what is now Old Town State Historic Park, and The Evening Tribune, founded Dec. 2, 1895, near the Plaza in what is now downtown San Diego. The two newspapers were merged into a morning newspaper Feb. 2, 1992. They had been published by the same company morning and evening since 1901 by two distinguished newspaper families -- the Spreckels family (until 1928) and the Copley family (1928-present). John D. Spreckels, who purchased The Union in 1890, was a pioneer developer (land, transit, buildings). Spreckels died in 1926, and his estate sold the newspapers in 1928 to Ira Clifton Copley of Illinois (public utilities, newspapers). [/quote] Art, I think you are wrong in this. DrS | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3184 Registered: 1-2002 |
Denial: not just an Egyptian river, Art. The photo is real. Your denial & "blame the messenger" is unreal. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2803 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hey David I do. Not one of the cites was a new agency. All of them right wing propanda. Show me this in CNN, etc. Can't, maybe because this is right wing propganda again. Now in the SF newspaper. Probably made up. Art | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 916 Registered: 4-2003 |
I found this report that mentiones it from April 7th [quote] It's not an act of treason if it isn't done with the intent of aiding the enemy. This mens rea (lawyer latin for "state of mind") requirement is what prevents prosecution of protestors for treason. Many folks, and right now I am one, believe that anti-war folks are at least objectively pro-Saddam. In other words, even if they don't mean to help Saddam, both he and they are on the same side of the argument and doing everything in their power to thwart the U.S. government. This isn't an original argument; George Orwell made it most lucidly during WWII. Now if one of the protestors was carrying a "We support our troops when the shoot their officers" sign, as protestors in San Francisco are doing, we'd have some mens rea it might well be a different story. Until then, we just have to listen to their ••••... [/quote] DrS | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3183 Registered: 1-2002 |
Art, I am really looking forward to your response...   | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2802 Registered: 6-2001 |
I've asked the Chronicle for their imput. Let's see what they have to say about this. Art | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3182 Registered: 1-2002 |
Art: From the San Diego Tribune & other sources, after a quick Google search that you could have done yourself: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/op-ed/perkins/20030328-9999_mz1e28perkin.html http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=8744 http://anyboard.net/news/ag/posts/2384.html http://www.free-times.com/Usual%20Suspects/Suspects_Archive/suspects032603.html http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA459.html http://vikingphoenix.com/news/iraqwar/iraqwar1.htm http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=FIRST&read=4600 http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/opinion_columnists/article/0,1713,BDC_2490_1848176,00.html http://www.jessicaswell.com/MT/archives/000758.html http://www.americandaily.com/item/560 http://www.vanderbiltorbis.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/04/09/3e939710a1a4e?template=pda STILL THINK IT'S FAKE, ART? | ||
| Ricky Agrawal (Vraa)
New member Username: Vraa Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2003 |
Being from Texas, this is sick, not only just sick, wrong. One thing is for sure though, it'd be fun, fun to run some people over. I remember seeing a Testarossa with a leg of a deer under it, hoax, but it'd be fun. The red blood would blend in the car no? | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 915 Registered: 4-2003 |
I remember seeing it on, I think, a brief Larry King piece on the war. He was talking about the patriot act or something like that and showing images of discontent. Anyway, they flashed that pic on the air for a sec, and being in the military....I remembered it well. Otherwise, I have no idea where it came from. Dave, one way to check would be the original file name it came to you as. What was it? DrS | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2801 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dave: I just checked the web site, no pictures such as that. I also checked CNN, this is what that searched showed, and guess what, no such picture. When you can show me where it appeared, I'll change my tune, but it looks to be another urban legend. http://silverchips.mbhs.edu/inside.php?sid=1665 Art | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3181 Registered: 1-2002 |
"I didn't see it, and it would have made the front page, had it been real" Art, all due respect, but that is BS. First, none of us sees everything; you & I certainly don't. Second, I seriously doubt that this particular photo would have made front page out there. Those Calif. newspaper editors may be leiberal, but they ain't stupid. Third, my father in law thinks that it may have been on one of the papers' web sites, as I posted. Bottom line: the photo is real. Strangelove is also right: CNN had it on the air & on their website, I believe, as did Yahoo, now that I think about it. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2800 Registered: 6-2001 |
I just went back to the Chronicle on 3/27/03 and no such picture was there. Dr. please let me know where on CNN, because it sure wasn't in the Chronicle, which is the SF newpaper. Again, if real a disgrace, but I think I want real proof here. This looks like defamation, but if anyone can prove it really happened, I'll listen. If it didn't then mark up another one to the right making up stuff to slander the left. Art | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 914 Registered: 4-2003 |
Art, it was on CNN a few months ago. Any one ever notice how most are such cowards that they only hold the sign while masked?? DrS | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2799 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dave: With all due respect to your father-in-law, I didn't see it, and it would have made the front page, had it been real. Please see if you can get more, our paper in SF is the Chronicle (SFgate.com), and I've asked them to see if they can find it. If real, its outrageous, but frankly, I don't think its real. We'll see. Art | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3179 Registered: 1-2002 |
Art, read down a little. Contrary to your left-leaning suspicion, it is the latter. It appeared on 3/27/03, in its current form, as taken by an AP photographer during an organized anti-war/anti-Bush protest. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2796 Registered: 6-2001 |
As a resident of SF, I;ve seen nothing like this in the papers. Either this is a fake, or it is so bad the papers haven't printed it. I suspect the former. Dave, where did you get this? Art | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 1000 Registered: 3-2002 |
This is absolutely disgusting Of course you would NEVER see protesting like this in China, Iran, Syria, N. Korea, and other oligarchal anti-free societies. It is interesting how none of these people who are fed up with our society do not leave for a "better" place. You can easily obtain a connecting flight to your paradise. Paradise is waiting. 21 Bravo Ralph | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1077 Registered: 2-2003 |
We support capital punishment when idiots like this get in trouble. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3172 Registered: 1-2002 |
Vince, I do not believe it is. It was emailed to me by my father in law (who lives in that area) and it was attributed to the Associated Press, from several months ago. He also tells me that it did appear in one of the Bay Area papers, or on their web site--he forgot which. | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
Member Username: Manatee Post Number: 452 Registered: 6-2002 |
Please tell me this is some kind of photoshop job. I do notice that the one guy carrying the banner is wearing a mask, just like all the other cowards in the world. | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Member Username: Kds Post Number: 380 Registered: 5-2003 |
Liberals are the pallbearers of society. | ||
| Dan Gordon (Ferruccio)
Member Username: Ferruccio Post Number: 293 Registered: 2-2003 |
Liberals like these hurt there case more than help it when they do things like this. Because of that I often laugh at these antics. (I am a republican) But this is sick, wrong, and over offensive. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3164 Registered: 1-2002 |
Many of you know that I was not exactly in favor of our Iraqi adventure, although I was not exactly opposed, either. However, now that we're there, I am very much in favor of our troops & our President to effect a successful conclusion. Let us not forget just how nasty a lot of the most vocal anti-war & anti-Bush a$$clowns are, as evidenced by this photo taken in San Francisco (where else?):  |