| Author |
Message |
Joseph Caretti (Pino)
Junior Member
Username: Pino
Post Number: 67
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 3:42 pm: | |
Yet another "if you have to ask, then you can't afford it" scenario for me.
I knew it was a lot of money, but only figured it was half of what Tim said. |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 216
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 3:41 pm: | |
Joseph,
That does not include the cost of the car which last I heard was about 190K for a 360C.
In most cases the minimum for a season is about 300K including car but realistically to run at the front you are going to need 400K and with crash damage that can easily be a half million before you know it.
Not much demand at that price. You could run Grand Am for that or any lower level open wheeled series with a lot more prestige and competition such as Barber Dodge Pro, Formula Mazda Pro, Spec Racer Ford Pro, Formula Zetec Pro, or even a low budget Toyota Atlantic.
By the way noticed you profile says you are from Chambersburg, Pa. I spent ten years in Waynesboro, Pa (where my family is from) back in the late 70's and early 80's before going off to college. My cousin is a Vice President at Salomon Smith Barney in Chambersburg.
Stop by at Summit and say hello. You can see a picture of my car on my profile page.
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
1995 F355 Challenge #23
1988 BMW M5 Club Racer #44
1998 Spec Racer Ford #6
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Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member
Username: Tim
Post Number: 170
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 3:24 pm: | |
have to purchase the car too.
great info Jon. and your not kidding about the big wallet theory. my mechanic that also worked on the challenge cars said it is more of an ego race than anything. the drivers started showing up with coach's and then it was a race to see who could bring the biggest name coach. one guy showed with some big cart guy, forget the name now, my mechanic used to race with him and asked what he was doing there and he replyed, he didnt know but some guy was paying him a bucket of maney to say he was his driving coach.
I have talked with a couple guys here in phx that ran the 360C last couple years and they averaged just shy of $1,000,000 for the season others were $800,000. this is out of their pocket, all expenses, flights, repairs, etc etc. way too much for me. |
Joseph Caretti (Pino)
Junior Member
Username: Pino
Post Number: 66
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 12:54 pm: | |
Jon, are those fees you quoted including the use of a car, or do you have to pay all that money to the dealer and still have to purchase the machine?
By the way, I look forward to meeting you at the Point next month.
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Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 215
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 8:04 am: | |
I watched the race too. In 2001 the cost was about $12,000-$15,000 per race. This consisted of $3500 to FNA, $8,000-$9,000 to the dealer, and damage insurance $3,000 (optional).
Also a change for 2001 from prior years was that you had to pay for all the races (FNA fee) even if you just wanted to run 2 or 3 races.
I had hoped to run in 2001 on a part time basis but couldn't pay the full season FNA fee.
The European series is no more competitive than the US series. Each year since about 98' the Challenge series has been more about people with very average talent and very above average wallets. With the exception of Steve Earle, Matt Drendal, Milka Dunno, the talent pool in the Challenge series is not very strong.
In this year's series Darius Griala (spelling?) and Doug Peterson are pretty fast but the rest of the field is very poor. I have been on the track with at least 4 of the other competitors at track events and none impressed me as having much talent.
That is not to say that I would do any better, but I race with folks in SCCA that would clean up in this series.
Pierre Schreoder, who is a frequent front runner in the European series, came over to the states to run in the Skip Barber Formula Dodge open wheeled series with all the young kids hoping to get to Toyota Atlantic and CART. He is at least 2-3 seconds off the pace of even the slowest Barber competitors. I watched him race at the Cleveland race (supporting the CART weekend) and he spun off three times and was lapped by at the first 16 cars on the grid.
Anybody who watched the first lap of the Glen race saw the first wreck coming up through turn 3 and 4. You could see the yellow 360 C shuting the door on the red 360 C that just dove inside of him. The yellow 360 never saw him nor had any idea he was there. This sort of "rookie" mentality about situational awareness has plagued the series for years with big crashes.
I was at the 2001 Glen race and in the B group many of the 360 C drivers were slower than the 355 racers. At least two 360 C's were lapped by the two lead 355 C's. Sad part is that one of those lapped 360 C's is raced and owned by a person who also "attempts" to race a Porsche 911 GT3R in Grand Am where he frequently crashes.
Costs have escelated with people bringing back up cars and teams cheating to win. In addition to the "required" fees, it is generally known that another $100,000 minimum is needed to run at the front.
Don't get me wrong if I had that kind of cash I would do it just for the fun, but let's not kid ourselves here, this is a series for big wallets, not big talent.
For that kind of cash you could run a GT car in Grand Am and face real talent.
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod |
Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member
Username: Goggles_pisano
Post Number: 41
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 7:01 am: | |
Wow, that's startling...it's cheaper to run the European Challenge Series? I was just trying to picture where they store their 360's between races over there...
So, have you got plates for your 360 yet Tim? |
Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member
Username: Tim
Post Number: 167
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 6:05 pm: | |
I saw it too. I spoke with the guy that takes care of my F40 and my 360 Challenge. he used to take care of several of the Challenge cars in the series. he put the nose and all suspension parts on the car that won.
interesting to note - he said the guy that won used to run at the back of the pack. he said this tells you how many guys have dropped out of the challenge series. most of them have moved to the european challenge. its cheaper to fly their family over for every race, stay at nice hotels, etc. than it is to run in the U.S. - I guess the U.S. dealers really rape the challenge drivers here. also in the european series if you win the series you win and brand new 360 for the street. in the U.S. you win a watch. of which no one has recieved yet. go figure. |
Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member
Username: Eric308gtsiqv
Post Number: 360
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 11:25 am: | |
Yes...saw it last night on SpeedTV as well. Unfortunately, I only caught the last 10 minutes or so. Thoroughly enjoyed it -- hope they show them more often in the future! Nothing like the sound of a pack of Ferrari's...I love it! |
Tony Oliver (Txtony)
New member
Username: Txtony
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 8:02 am: | |
It was the first one they had according to the commentator.
Perhaps they will become more sophisticated and try some in car cameras in the future. |
Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member
Username: Goggles_pisano
Post Number: 32
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 7:34 am: | |
Since when did Speed start showing 360 Challenge races anyways? Cool race anyways. |
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