| Author | Message | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Junior Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2002 |
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| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 613 Registered: 10-2002 |
Pete, I see your point, but with that logic you would have had to sack a lot of other great drivers as well: Prost, Senna, Piquet to name a few former WCs. The difference might be however that the drivers I named were in #1 cars already and just trying to outmanouver their team mates. Whereas JV and Button should stick together to get the car going first. The thing that puzzled me about JV is why he was playing with Zonta mentally. That guy was clearly over his head in F1 and JV a WC, so why even bother. Maybe the guy does have some personal problems. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2002 |
If both drivers (and especially JV grew up) and worked together they will make their humble little race car go faster and they might actually win a race. I'm all for racing your team mate, but when it comes to testing and practise, etc. you should work together to make the car work better and race better, etc. JV is ruining this and this is why BAR is suffering. Personally I would sack him! No matter how could the driver is, if he cannot play the team player he is not worth ••••. Pete | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 645 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well, if JV was asked to move over for JB and indeed replied "No f***ing way!", then good for him. Reading both articles, it's hard to be certain whether or not it was intentional. However, people shouldn't be so surprised to see Jacques messing with Button, since he essentially told the press he would be doing that pre-season. Jacques strikes me as the type who does this not so much to gain an on-track advantage, but more to test a person's personality. A bit like Irvine. | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Junior Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2002 |
Just to add a bit of balance, here is a story in support of Jacques. My favourite quote: "He would regularly throw Ricardo Zonta�s meals in the bin." !! http://www.planet-f1.com/Features/Editorials/story_11041.shtml | ||
| Steve (F1gearhead)
New member Username: F1gearhead Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2003 |
This article came up on Planet-F1.com yesterday... very interesting.. http://www.planet-f1.com/Home/story_11029.shtml | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Junior Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 199 Registered: 11-2002 |
I would class DC's talent as slightly less than Damon. Damon has never impressed me as a driver. I have met him a couple of times and he seems like a really nice guy, but the plain fact is that he is not on the same level as Kimi Raikkonen, Juan Montoya, Rubens Barichello, or Jean Alesi. And he is certainly not up there with Senna, Prost or Schumacher. DC has to be the most irritating driver as he has always (apart from last year) been in a car capable of winning the championship but he has never looked like getting close. Every January we hear him saying "I'm fitter and more motivated than ever. This is going to be my year." and then he'll win a couple of races during the season. Getting back on topic, on Dutch TV they had the BAR pit radio feed. They could hear Jock Clear (Jaques' engineer) telling JV "Box, box" for a couple of laps. They also had the pitboard out telling him to pit. They then heard Jock saying "Let Jenson in. Do another lap.". That's when JV came in and we saw the mechanics trying to find his tyres as they were waiting with Jenson's. If all of this is true and he did muck up Jenson's race on purpose then it is pretty clear that he should be sacked by the team. This is surely more unsportsmanlike than what Schumacher did to Jaques in 1997? (Can you hear the can of worms being opened?) I'll duck now!  | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 568 Registered: 4-2002 |
Don't agree with much of the DH maligning here, the race stats from the DH years show it as bull I'm afraid. Additionally, remember he actually drew just short of '3' WC's, not just the one he did get! There was a point, not far before he was forcibly retired by sponsorship politics, that DH had a better record than even the great MS in terms of 'podium finishes' wrt races entered. Oh and he can ride a bike pretty swiftly in competition too, never been many of them around. Surtees, Surtees or Surtees. Thankfully MS grew up a lot since his 'spoiling' tactics days (blimey, he didn't even worry about his brothers neck back then!), he now drives his own race rather than wasting effort scuppering others races. As for JV, when he drives with his head he still shows occasional signs of brilliance but generally a 'has been' like Irvine. Nice to see DC take a win, was beginning to have doubts there. However, I suspect it won't be a reflection on the rest of the season to come. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 590 Registered: 10-2002 |
Uh, oh, you guys just got me started: Attacking my all time idol Irvine, c'mon! Not that he was the greatest of all drivers, but at least he spoke his mind. Loved Montoya last night taking of getting screwed and ••••, that's at least real. Hate to hear those polished corporation PR released statements from MS (love him as a driver though). Really was happy to hear Montoya, hoping we haven't heard the last from him and hopefully he'll step into Eddie's big mouth shoes... JV is a bit of a whiner I have to say myself. But I won't go into Pete's argument about his father. De mortibus nihil nisi bene, so I won't touch that one. Did it once when his birthday came up and burned my tongue. But you can figure that I hold his son in higher honors (gosh, I'm defending this clown yet again, can't believe it). Pete, you made a nice case as a trial lawyer using my logic regarding Hill, but I'd like a rebuttal: I always thought Hill sucked, but to be fair to him, he was a very fast driver once in the lead. That is typical for somebody who came up through the ranks as a test driver. So he really is fast, he is just not much of a race driver. So having JV kicking his b_utt shows, that JV really was quick out of the gates. What I *do* admire about JV is the man has no nerves, not nerves out of stell like his father, the man has no nerves period. He is the coldest blooded sumbitch I've ever seen. Unfortunately he is also a whiner. Pete, you're right about the fact, that JV is not somebody who will get the team up. Yes, MS did that and that might be even more of an accomplishment than 'just' winning WC after WC in the Ferrari. Bringing a team from the deathbed and make the superior to none is something not even a 4 time WC like Prost or Leone Mansell were able to do. Let alone a loudmouth like Berger. Therein lies the real accomplishment of MS and I agree, that neither Eddie nor JV have that extra bite. Nor Rubens. | ||
| Jamil Jamal (Jameel)
Junior Member Username: Jameel Post Number: 55 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think JV is a whiney annoying little bi@tch. Him and Irvine seem to complain and whine more than they drive. And they blame everything / everybody else for their misfortunes. I�m glad Jaguar woke up and didn�t re-new Irvine�s contract. I just can�t wait to see JB out qualify and hopefully out-race his teammate. Hopefully that�ll shut him up. And I hope JV does poorly this year so BAR can throw his a$$ out of F1. Sorry for some of the bad language by JV and Irvine really piss me off. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 238 Registered: 11-2002 |
JV as you stated kicked Hill's butt and as you stated Hill is an unworthy champion ... thus what does that make JV? I think all that means is that JV is better than Hill ... not great credientials. I do have to give Hill credit for finally getting a championship though ... Unfortunately JV has to have a perfect car to perform, like the rest including Rubens. Real champions give it their all and perform well in any car, even if it has problems (witness MS lap times with his floor dragging on the ground at Melbourne). Personally I think his father would be ashamed at his lack of fire in his belly, as his father was quick in anything and everything and never, ever gave up, just like MS. Not half the racer his father was, but then could any son ever have reached that level? Pete | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 584 Registered: 10-2002 |
oops, I meant 'did this NOT on purpose' | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 583 Registered: 10-2002 |
Just hope JV did this on purpose. Unfortunately I could imagine he did... I think JV was doing a great job in qualifying. Button IMHO is a great talent. MS said so once himself and he doesn't say that about anybody. Jenson's first season in the Williams was a revelation, but then the fame and PR contracts got to him and let his hair down. Now I think he is pulling himself back together. So if he puts JV in a bad light, that doesn't really mean JV sucks. I thought JV's WC was deserved. Sure he sat in the best car, but even in his rookie F1 year, he kicked Damon Hill's b_utt. Don't want to nitpick, but if want to discuss 'unworthy' F1 champions, I'd start with Hill and would also include Rosberg. Both great drivers, but got their WC rather lucky than not. Maybe this could be a new thread? PS: Can't believe I'm defending JV yet again. I'm really not his fan. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 232 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hmmm ... possible but what a wanker if that is what he really did. Button drove really well all weekend and confirms my belief that Jaques Villeneuve is not worthy of his world championship status (but the Williams was) .... unless Button is a undiscovered legend, but Panis was giving Jaques a hard time last year too. Lets just say that it won't do Button any harm pushing him all season, but Jaques might become a little cheaper Pete | ||
| Steve (F1gearhead)
New member Username: F1gearhead Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2003 |
The minute I saw both BARs pit at the same time last night I was suspicious of JV. Button was supposed to come in for a pit first, meaning that JV would come in afterwards. I have a suspicion that maybe JV thought he would permanently lose his lead over Button, and after all his ••••-talking in the off-season this would be unacceptable to JV, so he "misunderstood" the pit radio and came too, making Button wait... Just a thought |