| Author | Message | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 417 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jack, All good points and totally agree. Andreas, Er, sorry post should have been address to all posters not just you. '94 as you say could have been the best year of F1 ever ... Atleast Ferrari are winning again after their amazing bad luck at the start of the season. Pete | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 740 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jack, LOL on the racing CV! Pete, I understand your point, but if it's low-budget racing you want, all you need to do is visit the nearest track during an SCCA meeting. There's some good racing, but it's not like an F3000 race. I don't think high-level sponsorship has negatively affected the racing so much as it has the overall character of the sport and its drivers. Like I heard Dan Gurney say, the engineering rules today are written way too tightly, and they need to be opened back up to allow creativity in the sport. If we were able to see teams bringing unusual designs and ideas to the track, I don't think we'd mind so much the domination of one team. What adds to the dissatisfaction of a dominator is the fact that, without paint and stickers, the cars look like they all rolled off the same assembly line. That, and the issue we keep hearing about which is "team orders". If we were allowed to witness Ferrari vs. Ferrari, things might be a little different. Granted, I doubt Rubens would have knocked MS out of the Championship, but a fair chance would have been appreciated here. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 844 Registered: 10-2002 |
PSK, after today let's add Alonso to the club of top drivers. Still hoping JPM comes around, but we haven't seen much of him lately. Just for the record: I don't 'hate' MS at all, I was merely listing some of the arguments I've heard over the years. Personally I believe he is simply the best driver there ever was, not just for his speed etc, but also for being able to share a team around him, that makes the winning car. He got Benetton onto the podium and did it with Ferrari. No Prost or Mansell ever did that. But you're quite right, it is impossible to compare drivers from different times. And it would be an awful close match between Senna and MS anyway. Just for the record: 94 was the year Senna was supposed to easily clinch the title. He was the best driver at the time (nobody ever heard of MS really) and he had the best car. But MS was able to put him under so much pressure, that he made mistakes in the first three races of the season. Not unlike this year with MS vs Kimi, but touch wood, the Ferrari hasn't broken apart so far and MS is about to turn the situation around. Again, the fact, that MS was pressuring Senna that much still doesn't tell us everything as both drivers were at opposite ends of their careers. But it sure would have been nice to see them go wheel to wheel for a lot more than those three races. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 416 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andreas, When somebody else comes along that is a worthy competitor then this will naturally end MS winning ... thus it is not MS's fault that he is so good, but the sports fault for not promoting and feeding REAL talent instead of these commercialised, scared to race drivers that we have making up the field now. We really only have 2 worthy drivers IMO, MS and Kimi ... even Montoya has allowed the commercialisation to remove his edge now. Hence we knock MS because of his talent ... pathetic IMO, simply tall poppy syndrome! The argument that Ayton was better because he beat Alain Prost (a 3 time world champ) is also weak, because MS beat Hakinen a 2 time WC ... we also have forgotten that Alain Prost also BEAT Ayton too ... so yes he was brilliant but not a God like people talk about him now. Ayton did some amazing things and I am very fortunate to have been able to watch almost every F1 race that he competed in, but so is MS, and Prost and on his day Mansell. We can not judge who was the best, because it is just impossible ... and rest in peace Ayton. Remember also at Japan when Prost and Senna were both in McLarens and Senna attempted the impossible pass that resulted in knocking them both out (Ayton was penalised BTW, and not everybody loved him back then with his ruthless racing and God is on my side, etc. ... but quite rightly that has all been forgotten now) ... same sort of desperate move that we all critise MS for ... but we have short memories. Ayton and MS are both winners and at all costs, and yet one we love, the other some hate ??? Personally I think the sport has matured and does not tolerate these sort of actions from its drivers anymore and this happened at the wrong time for MS and yes it had to be controlled somehow. But now we have lost the racing ... Then we get the other extreme like the rest of the pathetic drivers who will just about drive off the track to save themselves from any sort of REAL racing or contact ... they all seem to be trying to work out who could let the other one win the most ... not enough winners and this is why we NEVER see passes, not the rules or the cars simply the lack of balls! Thus my solution is to reduce sponsorship to get the sport back. Get rid of commercial pressures and the drivers are free to race again. Yep the cars might be slower and not so high tech, but we will have REAL racing again. Remember that during the 1.5 lt formula of the 60's we actually had the best racing, different race and championship winners ... and yet everybody hated that formula. Thus get rid of sponsorship and bring back racing IMO, and come on guys and girls stop knocking MS just because he can do his profession better than everybody else. Pete | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 837 Registered: 10-2002 |
Aside from the fact, that he is German (doesn't go down easy still with some Brits) and has dominated the sport, there are some other reasons for his unpopularity: - While with Benetton there were some issues about the car not being totally legal and him 'overlooking' the black flag at the British GP. That gave him the German nick name 'Schummel-Schumi' (Schumi the cheater) and was not helpful for his image. The FIA took him out of the WC for a few races, which cost him points and he saved his title by knocking Hill out of the last race. Deliberate or not, it ticked off a lot of Brits and Hill to this day. - He tried to save his WC by deliberately knocking Villeneuve out. - His press statements are incredibly clean cut. A sign of the commercialized times unfortunately. - He comes across as arrogant. I think that is only his demeanour, because everybody who knows him always makes statements to the contrary and having met the man once myself I agree with them. For many people it is not really a question of hating the guy, but simply of not rooting for him. Not because of who he is, but because he has won enough and it is time to let somebody else take the podium. Of all the arguments against him, I can understand this one the most. I felt similarly about Senna and Prost and was happy when that area was over (although of course I would have loved to see Senna live on and fight Schumacher). just my $ 0.02 | ||
| Steve Zivkovic (Stevez)
New member Username: Stevez Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2003 |
I too am completely baffled by the MS haters. Everything Mike B said about the guy appears to be true. For God's sake, the guy's worth millions and he brought a flea-ridden mutt home from Brazil because he and his wife felt sorry for it. I think what it boils down to is that a German has dominated a decade of what is largely a British sport, while the Hills, Herberts, Irvines, Coulthards, Buttons etc. have floundered. And it frustrates them to the point of a completely irrational perception of everything MS does and says. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1120 Registered: 7-2002 |
blah | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Junior Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 148 Registered: 12-2002 |
I can't understand why anyone dislikes Michael. I remember an interview where they asked if he was going to go back home and smoke the traditional cigar he liked after he won the race. He smiled and said yes, and quickly backpeddled and said he would ask the reporters not to print that since alot of children see him as a role model and he does not want to encourage smoking. That is class. Every post race interview I have seen the man is oozing with humbleness and humility. When he CLEARLY had a huge lead and no chance of losing and they ask "so was it an easy race, Michael?" he never says "Yeah those guys were slow - I had it in the bag the whole time". He ALWAYS gives credit and will say something like "a race is never easy and nobody knows who will win until the finish line" or something to that effect. When he gets penalties, he just says "that's racing" and never complains. When asked about the new rules (which OBVIOUSLY harm Ferrari most) he just says "our job it not to decide the rules, but to race with what we are given and I will do my best". I mean, come on, the guy is humble to a fault! I think the REAL issue is that people just LOVE to hate the top guy, and the fact that MS ISN'T arrogant and condescending makes people almost hate him more. They WANT him to be a jerk and a prick and when he's not it's frustrating for them. MS is a great champion in every way. He has that cold, icy German demeanor but from what I understand and see, it's derived more from an analytical mind and no preponderence towards boasting. He comes across as somewhat emotionless - but that's not a bad thing. You want to talk about arrogant pricks? Look at Ralph "Everyone love me even though I suck!" Schumacher, Jacques "I am not impressed" Villeneuve, and Eddie "No really, I am not washed up, really" Irvine. Or, the king of the dingleberries, old cubehead himself, Coulthard. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 540 Registered: 2-2003 |
JH, PSK restated and refined my comments to you, simply, those of these fellows who really race (and let's face it, ALL F/1 drivers give it tremendous stick), would do it for free. When GV came back to Quebec City in '77, he told us a really funny story. Apparently, he and his manager had an audience with Ferrari, and beforehand, they had no idea what to ask as salary, and GV didn't really care. Expecting maybe $50k (in 1977) he was shocked when Ferrari said, "I will pay you no more than 400,000." GV told us he said, stuttering, "dollars?" and Ferrari said "No, Pounds of Course!" Point being, he didn't know how much he'd be paid, he didn't CARE how much he'd be paid, and he was SHOCKED to find out. Money doesn't drive those of us who loved to RACE, nor certainly does fame. Schumacher is apparently far more down to earth than many of his contemporaries, in an age when these guys are venerated beyond belief, and when demands on their time and personality are unimaginable. Guys like GV, a genius without an ounce of pretention, are one in a million. Schumacher qualifies as genius, and is apparently quite decent, see e.g., his interview comments about waiting on line at Texas. Give respect where it is due, and don't imagine for a second that our opinions count for anything more than the joy of discussion. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 383 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jack especially, I have watched all forms of motor racing all my life, infact I was born while my father was in hospital due to a motor racing accident (broken neck) in a Cooper Norton that he was multiple hill climb champion in ... and other vehicles. I then spent many of my early years watching circuit racing as my father was chief flag marshel and other things for NZ motor racing ... thus you could say I have lived and breathed motor racing ... and watched F1 live and on TV since I could read. I also have raced my own vehicles for around 9 years (club champion, etc.) and look forward to the day that I can get back behind a race car wheel after my family life as stabilised, and this sort of selfish activity can be continued. Thus I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable on this subject. What really anoys me about about the so called F1 fans is that they think that the racing is FOR them, and that they as a spectator should have the red carpet rolled out and the drivers/teams touching their toes so they can give them one up their a**e. If you have that view, and I think you do, you do NOT understand motor racing as a sport. Drivers and mechanics do NOT spend their life pulling out pistons and drifting around corners to become FAMOUS or a house hold name and thus a hero to spectators ... they do it for FAR BIGGER reasons, to prove to THEMSELVES that they are the best car controller of their time. They could not give a flying sh!t whether a single spectator turned up or it was shown on TV or not, they are racing themselves ... their passion and personal commitment, so stop f*cking on about how they owe the public to be everything you expect. They are just racing their cars and YOU the spectator decided to go and watch them NOT the other way around. Now you say they would not have the huge salaries and fancy cars if the money did not come rolling in ... and I can tell you if the cars were all stripped down Ford road cars, MS would still be there just about everyday loving every minute of it because motor racing is MS. He still races go karts for fun, and I also cannot refuse the opportunity to have a go even in slow indoor go karts because for many of us it is what makes us tick. MS's car control (if you really know what to look for) is amazing and head a shoulders above ALL others on the grid, even Barrichello who is very good, but the way MS balances the car on the throttle is better even than Ayton Senna (BTW Ayton made mistakes too, but we all forget that now ... and MS has a better win record. Ayton was brilliant but also human, MS is definitely in his class and what a fantastic season '94 should have been). You don't see this so much now because the Ferrari is finally a car worthy of his talents, but in the early days he made a piece of SH!T a race winner. And those Ferraris were pieces of complete and utter sh!t. Compare his qualifying performances with his team mates ... he ate them for breakfast (and he did not do that for YOU BTW). The fact that you considered Imola's race boring shows that you are not a real passionate motor racing enthusiasts, because that was vintage MS. His laps while his brother pitted were just brilliant, he was doing qualifying laps and nearly went off he was pushing so hard ... but yet you never noticed that. Those laps were real exciting to those that can really watch a car and understand how it is moving and how absolutely difficult it is to perform on that level under that pressure ... you don't know and thus it went over your head. A race is more than just passing (great move though by Barrichello), but a high speed chess game and this is where nobody holds a candle to MS's abilities ... Kimi is getting close and we are fortunate to finally have somebody that may continue to raise his game to push MS ... aren't we luck spectators  MS as a person, well I like to meet people before I slag them off. From what I have heard he does a lot more than other drivers ... and can you imagine his life, the endless people (like you) that think they know him and thus have the right to kick him in the balls PUBLICLY, and because he races cars think that HE owes THEM the time of day. Next time you walk down a street, think about how YOU treat every single person that walks past you and imagine what it is like having to be a saint FOR every person. Jack f*ck off! ... I could never have raced after loosing my Mum. MS is the greatest of his time, and deserves to re-write the record books as a RACING DRIVER, and I am damn sure he is a better person to strangers than me ... thus give him a break, and if you don't like him go and watch another sport (something like a flacky American sport where they play simply to become famous, because the art of true sport has been lost to the pathetic alura of the TV). Pete ps: If I was a F1 driver, I could not give a sh!t what the rest of the world thought of me, I would be sooooooo involved with what I was doing that if would be my whole life. I bet MS's wife even comes second he has it that bad. ps: Ayton Senna dumped Miss Brazil (his wife) because racing was more important ... that is how bad these guys have it. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2003 |
I'll try to word it differently although I think you already caught my drift. I see a prejudice as something that is is negative, not based on fact but on stereotypes etc. These prejudices live in the minds of people based on god knows what. I hear more and more around me comments on MS that are directly related to him being German and conclusions like "he's so typical German" (to put it VERY mildly...) and, believe me, those comments are NOT meant in any positive way... THAT is what I meant with "he confirms every possible prejudice against Germans". I hope that everybody who reads this post understands now what is behind that sentence. But hey, let's look at the bright side... He read the post, thought "Damn... it IS time to win a race again!" and so he did! Hehehehe... Jack | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 536 Registered: 2-2003 |
JH, to give you the benefit of doubt you seem unwilling to accord others, perhaps this is a language disconnect. When you say he "confirms" prejudices, you are saying he validates them, or stands as proof positive that these prejudices have basis in reality. I know that ethnicities have certain traits that are inescapable; nevertheless, your comments don't seem to have an upside. None of us know M Schumacher, and I have no ax to grind personally as to his career, mine was vastly less successful (although personally fulfilling), and also in a different generation, but he has earned universal respect. My opinion. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>>and your ethnic comments are beneath contempt See below: >>>If I say that he confirms prejudices, you COULD open your mind and think that that is meant in the way that I am NOT happy with that as it reflects on ALL people that have some German blood and that includes myself as I'm actually half German<<< | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 534 Registered: 2-2003 |
Wow, pretty contentious thread! Jack Habit, I'm no M Schumacher fan, but considering the enormous pressures on these fellows' time, and the tremendous pressure on them to perform, MS handles it well, particularly compared to others I've known personally. First, much as I hate to admit it, he is without doubt among the 3 or 4 all time greats, and his achievements dwarf those of any other F/1 great, PERIOD. Second, I've known fellows like an old F-3 mate Gunnar Nilsson, who upon getting their Grand Prix ride, stop talking to anyone; friends, fans, or mechanics! (and this was in the old days, with about a thousand times less pressure and competition) Rosberg, although a fun guy when we were in Atlantic, used to piss and moan about press and fans despite the fact that he was banging umbrella girls and making money driving racers; he couldn't have carried MS's helmet bag but acted "put-upon" all the time. Wanker. Similarly as to arrogance, Schumacher apparently stood on line at Texas World Speedway for some deal where people were paying for a few laps at the wheel of a stocker, and he NEVER mentioned "I am the World Champion" or anything like that. Just stood there patiently. Imagine a certain driver from Nazareth Pa. doing that. I don't think so. This guy nearly single-handedly grabbed Scuderia Ferrari by the neck and dragged it kicking and screaming into the 21st century, making it THE dominant team in the hottest competitive crucible in all of sports these last three years. You're not talking about some guy who drives fast; super quick drivers are a dime a dozen (trust me on this one!); you're talking about a guy who ran up Everest with a transporter on his back!! Give respect where respect is due. (and your ethnic comments are beneath contempt). | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yup, agreed. THE drive of the race. Jack | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1204 Registered: 1-2002 |
Man, RB is a total stud--I am glad we agree on this! Pit crew messes up his stop (and why on earth did they change his tires with 10 laps to go instead of just giving him a splash of fuel??) and delays him 5+ seconds; comes out 6 seconds behinf Kimi; makes up nearly ALL of that in 10 laps to the point of, had there been one more lap, propbably would have passed Kimi. Now, THAT'S DRIVING! | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>>And RB getting past Ralf was very good driving by a man who is not given enough credit for his talent. Now THAT is something I can wholeheartedly agree to! Jack | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 408 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jack, I can see you have a lot of racing experience to draw on yourself, so you really know how a person reacts when their performance is not up to their usual standards. I rode professional moto-x for the Mean Green back in the 70's when we still had the short travel rear suspension and let me tell you, professional racing is not like club or regional racing. The pressures put on you to perform are extremely high. Not only do you put yourself under pressure to perform to your own expectations, you have to perform to the expectations of those who put you in / on the ride. I do not agree at all with your saying that because of what MS is paid that he should never make a mistake. When you push, you can more easily make mistakes and when you make a mistake in cars like F1, most of the time you are not allowed the opportunity to make it up. Michael hits the rear of the car in front and has to make two unscheduled pit stops. One to change the nosepiece and the other a drive-thru for causing the accident. (Maylasia) and still he only finishes one lap back and sets fastest lap. How many other drivers (JV) would have gotten upset and either held back or even in the case of the temper of JV maybe have caused another accident by themselves? In Brazil he goes off track in the wet where several other drivers had gone off. It was said yesterday that that section of the track is being redesigned because of the amount of water accumulating and running across track in rain. Have you ever driven at speed, I mean real speed, thru thick water. Can you say hydroplane with absolutely no control no matter who you are? Jack, it is okay to expect exceptional performance out of a highly paid professional, but know that even professionals make mistakes. Look at Tiger Woods at the Masters. For what Nike pays him a year, they still allow him to be human and make mistakes because they know he will rise to the occasion and reclaim his spot at the top. If not this week, over the coming weeks. To judge Michael so prematurely is unjust to him. Lets look at mid-season and see if he is still performing at sub-par (which I do not believe he is doing now) and then reassess. And as for arrogance, I believe that Michael showed a lot of respect for the brand and for the fans when he went ahead and went to the podium yesterday. He had permission not to attend and leave but he chose to stay and allow the team and fans the opportunity to celebrate a Ferrari victory. He showed a lot of maturity by driving the way he did and then taking the podium also. I respect him for that. Last year he showed up at Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth unannounced during his motorcycle trip across part of the US. He went to the Nascar Richard Petty experience and did not let anyone know who he was. He stood in line to get his turn at the wheel and did not use his name to get any special priveleges. He could have said "I am Michael Schumacher, 5 time F1 world champion." Did he do that. No. He waited his turn and went out of the track just like anyone else. Although the head of marketing for TMS might have gotten reprimanded for not capitalizing on Michael's being there, I believe it was a very good jesture. So, that being said, I believe you are being way to judgemental toward him. You are looking at overall results and not looking at circumstances that happen. And as far as a boring race. It was much less boring than many other races I have seen. And RB getting past Ralf was very good driving by a man who is not given enough credit for his talent. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 85 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hubert, In order to lighten up this whole subject, here is photographic proof of my racing CV... it sucks... NEVER try to overtake a Lola B2K on the outside in turn 3 with brand new, grooved, tires under a street Modena... Regardless of scale... Hahahaha! Cheerio! Jack BEFORE:  AFTER:  | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dave, I also don't feel like debating it any further. BTW, boring race today... Jack | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1202 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hubert, I believe that is him. Black Prelude--GREAT driver. Jack, I am not going to debate it further. I respect your opposing view. As for MS behaving badly? Well, I imagine ALL professional athlets have done so once or more. Not a defense--but they are human after all. Have you ever behaved badly? I have. But the difference? Neither of us has cameras around us 100% of the time. I ask thisH how do you HONESTLY know who are nice, friendly chaps in F1 or in any sport? From their PR? Because they haven't yet been caught getting angry? Come on, man. Every world-class professional reacts to stress differently, no? It doesn not seem fair for you to sit there ragging on anyone for behaviour we all engage in. Please illustrate to us how MS "behaves like a god but treats people like dirt". I have seen none of that, and definitely not to an extent more than any other winning professional driver. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hubert & Dave, you're both too simple.... Both of you followed your own imagination (second time Dave did that here, also see the fake Puma add) into thinking the worse. If I say that he confirm prejudices, you COULD open your mind and think that that is meant in the way that I am NOT happy with that as it reflects on ALL people that have some German blood and that includes myself as I'm actually half German. Sorry Dave to ruin you punch line... Maybe you're thinking too much? Hubert: "MS is a professional, his job is to drive F1 cars as fast as he humanly can, and that doesn't include being a PR pansy." Wrong... It DOES include "PR pansy" as why would PR duties be included in driver contracts if it weren't? That is what I mentioned earlier, he wouldn't get a dime for what he's doing if there wasn't an audience for the sports. So, having looked up the word "professional", I come to the conclusion that he is the worlds best F1 car driver at this moment but that, IMHO, he is not a true professional in all aspects of his job. It is the audience that creates the mega bucks involved in the sports and he totally disrespects that very same audience... And indeed, I gave both boys a thumbs up for what they did today under the given circumstances. Is that so strange? Jack | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mmmm.... Then how come that a good number of F1 drivers (definitely not all!) with a similar background as MS are nice, friendly, chaps and MS is behaving the way he is? I have no disrespect for MS for being a peasant from Kerpen (I'm a peasant myself albeit not from Kerpen) but for being a peasant from Kerpen yet behaving like "a god" and treating other people like dirt. He even openly admits to hate the "publicity, fans & press" part of his job... I'll see if I can download the videoclip somewhere which shows how Mr. S. treats fans (children in fact) when qualifying hasn't gone the way it should. I saw your reaction to the fake Puma ad (and how you got taken away by your own imagination which says a LOT...) and how glad you were not to be a parent. If you would see the clip that I have in mind (IF I can find it...) you wouldn't let your kids get near him and all that these poor kids were doing was just hoping to get an autograph... It is THAT attitude that I am talking about and apparently I am not allowed to form and ventilate my opinion about that? Now THAT sounds pretty elitist to me.... Jack | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 734 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dave- Yes, that's my piglude in the profile. Are you talking about David Rierson? He runs in ITS. Yah, I know that guy -- via internet-- he is a great driver, and quite the 5th gen Prelude guy; me and him email once in a while. He actually runs the NTPOG club events. He recently got an s2000 as a daily putter as well. Nice guy, and great driver. My prelude is still doing double duty, but I've got it down to 2,7oo lbs w/ a full tank, but it's still go all the interior panels, A/C, cruise, sunroof, etc. All of that, probably, woud add up to 500 lbs., but I'm not that fast, nor that competative, yet. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1199 Registered: 1-2002 |
You tell him, Hubert! Some folks still haven't gotten over the War, if you know what I mean here... Methinks Jack just hates Germans "peasants" from Kerpen, if you follow my drift... By the way, I don't know if the Prelude in your profile is yourse...but if it is, I know a guy here in Texas--a fellow driving instructor--who has prepared one for the track. Stripped of nearly all interior, it weights ~~2,200 lbs, and, according to him, makes ~~250 hp at the WHEELS! And, boy can he drive!! He regularly spanks me on track when I am in my M3. Quite a great track car, and it sounds wonderful!! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 732 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jack- I'm German, and would like you to expound your intimated "stererotypes" so judiciously dealt out by Schumi-- for I'd like to know how I'm being "represented". But, before you do, why don't you look up the word "professional" as it might save you the trouble. MS is a professional, his job is to drive F1 cars as fast as he humanly can, and that doesn't include being a PR pansy. Also, and if you don't mind, why don't you post your racing CV so that we all may bask in your, most elaborate, professional opinion, alright? I can't stand people of your cloth; get up on your soapbox at the most popular place in time, and berate a man who's greatness is obviously over your head, and too deep for you comprehension. I'm sure if you'd done your due dilligence with "the marque" (how long have you been watching F1, anyway, since last season?) you'd have seen the radical transformation that MS brought about working w/ Byrne, Todt, and the rest of the scuderria; contrary to your belabored tirade, dear critic, Ferraris MO was not one of throwing money abjectly about; rather, they worked, and worked, and worked.. and Schumi's championship -- however many-- have been EARNED. He may be paid, but that's the nature of the business, but also the nature of world; high profile vocations tend to lead to high profile slaries. Oh, and the best part, sir, is your flimsy rebutal in the thread next door: commending the two "boys" for doing such a good job; hand up front, knife in the back. Cut of this cloth you can keep, friend. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1197 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jack, Don't like it much when the shoe is on the other foot, eh? But I admire your rapid backpedal... Glad I struck a nerve. I never suggested anyone worship anyone connected with any marque. But for you to so disrespect Schumacher for being just a "peasant" from Kerpen, and for uniting "EVERY single prejudice you could possibly have against Germans", tells me that the prejudice is REALLY within you, friend. And I would have responded had the object of your wrath been those "simple peasants" from England, Mark Webber or Jenson Button, or from Finland, Kimi, etc. Not just because it was Schumi, but because it was elitist, racist, and WAY out of line. Have a nice day. And practice what you preach, OK? | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dave, you ALMOST left me speechless.... What GREAT respect for different opinions... I bow deeply (while carefully protection my pie hole) for such a great spirit as you... It is only since I read your comments that I realize that if one loves Ferrari, one also HAS to love and worship EVERY single person involved with the make. Boy... am I glad I don't like BMW's as that would add another 20,000 or so people to the list that I MUST admire.... Oh, and let me know if you have had your own first-hand experience. OK? BTW, on your last line invitation, nah... I'm not in the mood so you I guess you'll have to do that yourself. Jack | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2003 |
MFZ, Yes I do realize that and also that she died last night so my condolences to the whole family (including Micha-el). But having said that, it has nothing to do with the poor performance in the first three races with a car that has already proven to be quick and realiable. Also his his behaviour in the last years has nothing to do with his family circumstances. Disagree with me? Fine! Jack | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1196 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jack, I have taken some liberties with your head-up-your-arse post. See if you can pick out where they apply to you: "I must admit, I just can't stand the guy Jack.... Simply because of his incredibly ARROGANT attitude towards the 5 time world champ and even towards his fans. [and Jack, don't confuse aloofness & awkwardness with arrogance--Schumacher has the former, but you definitely have the latter, in addition to some unresolved anger issues related to Germans] He unites EVERY single prejudice you could possibly have against the Dutch into one person... He should not forget he's just a simple peasant from Rijnsburg who happens to be able to sell Ferrari stuff very poorly. Other people are possibly very good at THEIR profession (like F1) but that's no reason to treat them like dirt...right, Jack?? What would his income be if there was no Ferrari mystique at all? I guess he would have to work VERY hard and sell a LOT of McDonald's hamburgers before ANYONE would let him near their Ferrari car. But helas, he seems to have forgotten about all that... So for that reason, Jack-o: do what you're being paid to do and no give up being an armchair quarterback. When you start driving F1 races, Jack, then you can sit in judgement of other racers' performance. Until then, please shut your pie hole! UND LECH MIR AM ARSCH! (Freely translates into "Kiss my a$$, clown!)" | ||
| MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Junior Member Username: Kiyoharu Post Number: 221 Registered: 2-2003 |
I'm no big fan of Michael Schumacher, but your comments are way out of line. Do you realise that the man's mother was in a COMA while he was doing his job? | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2003 |
I must admit, I just can't stand the guy.... Simply because of his incredibly ARROGANT attitude towards the press and even towards fans. He unites EVERY single prejudice you could possibly have against Germans into one person... He should not forget he's just a simple peasant from Kerpen who happens to be able to drive a car very quickly. Other people are possibly very good at THEIR profession but that's no reason to treat them like dirt... What would his income be if there was no F1 press coverage at all? I guess he would have to work VERY hard and bring a LOT of money before ANYONE would let him drive their race car. But helas, he seems to have forgotten about all that... So for that reason, Micha-el: do what you're being paid to do and no excuses whatsoever. UND JETZT AN DIE ARBEIT! (Freely translates into "Get you a$$ moving!) Jack | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 691 Registered: 2-2001 |
Oh come on. Three bad races and you are calling him washed up. I still think he is without question the best driver out there. As far as being paid that much so he shouldn't make a mistake. When you are driving to the extreme and that close to the limit drivers will make errors from time to time. Hopefully you can get the guys who just makes very few of them which I think he does. People always call him lucky, I think often people make there own luck. I would say this is why he has had so many finishes and so few crashes. When I say people make there own luck I mean both ways. He made poor decisions in the first three races and paid for it. Bottom line he will make far more better ones then not. I still say he wins his 6th this year. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 407 Registered: 1-2003 |
I read that there is a possibility that Ferrari may ask him to take $10M less in 2004. I forget what brought it up but it could be the financial shape that Fiat is in right now. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jere, at the odd million or so $$$ a race there is no room for whatever excuse... He's paid to perfection to perform to perfection and he has failed to do that 3 times in a row. Puts him in the same "overpaid yet underperforming" league as JV (AUCH!). So my suggestion: Lower his salary as long as he under-performs and use that money to lower the prices on the parts for 348's which just went up by some 50% at the factory... Just my Fl. 0.02 for what it's worth. Jack | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 402 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jack, Don't you think it is a little premature to be writing him off? I do not think he is slipping, I think he is maybe trying to drive a little too aggressively to make up for the new rules in qualifying and the way he has had to begin the races. Last race he hydroplanes off the track under yellow. Too aggressive. The race before, clips the rear of another racer and has to come in for a new nose and then back in for a drive thru penalty for causing the wreck. Two unnecessary pit stops and he still only finishes one lap back and sets fastest lap. He still has the stuff and so does the car, he just needs to stop doing the Juan Pablo Montoya imitations of immature judgement. Give it a few races, I think you will see a return of the Michael of old. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2003 |
MS is slowly slipping from the thrown... 3 x no podium and now an UTTERLY BAD 3rd section! 0.014 faster than a BMW? Nah... With all that money behind Ferrari and with THAT salary he should do better! NO EXCUSE ! Makes Jos' crash look like a flawless lap... ;-) Jack | ||
| Bart Boonacker (Sharky666)
Member Username: Sharky666 Post Number: 307 Registered: 9-2002 |
Great Qualifying I though MS would kick his little brother's @$$ but it ended up with just a few hundreds. But who cares And I felt so ashamed when Jos flew off the track. At first I thought it was a mechanical failure, but it was just his own stupid fault. He was pissed because he drove a new engine with the wrong air/fuel mixture, which he hadn't driven before. IMO no reason to fly off the track. Hopefully he can show something in the race, but I don't count on it any more. Thank god there's still Ferrari | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 329 Registered: 11-2001 |
Michael (a complete disregard for the forces of nature) Ralph Rubins Juan Webber (great run with the Jag!) Kimi |