| Author | Message | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
New member Username: Zff Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ok... I'm probably remembering it wrong. From the camera angle of the replay I keep seeing in my head makes it look like DC had clearly won the position.  What I don't understand is why DC felt like he needed to get back on the line so soon for T2 (which I'm assuming is the left-hander) I think he could have used the line he was on to defend his position into T2 and through T3 (which I'm assuming is the long sweeping right). Oh well. Hey, but I'm no F1 driver, I'm sure there was more to it than that. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 784 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>Button had clearly lost the position and had nothing left to defend<< Button was apexing T1. It was his. DC doev in, thought he could unsettle Button (get him to back off) and get around. JB stuck his line (didn't have anywhere to go but the gravle pits anyway.) which is why DC got punted in the right rear; had JB "dove" in he would have cought DC midship. | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
New member Username: Zff Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2002 |
It looked like DC had pretty clearly passed Button when he tried to move back in, but I don't know why DC tried to move in so soon. Was it turn one and he was trying to set up for the left-hander? I don't remember. If it was, I still don't understand why DC tried to get back on the line so quickly. I think he could have held Button off on the line he had. It's tough to say who was at fault. IIRC, Button had clearly lost the position and had nothing left to defend -- but someone with DC's experience should have known better. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1147 Registered: 3-2002 |
i thought the commentators said that button was exiting the pits, which puts you right into the line at the first turn, and dc said he did not see him? it is common for non-tifosi to accuse everybody from bernie on down, of doing everything to make it easier on ferrari. some of it may be true, but not everything all the time. the race probably should have been red-flagged, but in that split second when they made the decision i really don't think they sat around debating whether it would help ferrari or not. alonso rocks ! he and kimi are definetely the duo of the future. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 779 Registered: 1-2002 |
Re: Button v. DC That incident was DC's fault 100%. Jenson had the inside (drivers line), and DC got overzelous in trying to pass on the outside. He thought Jenson would give way seeing DC diving in on the outside, but didn't and DC got his. Too bad it took Button out, too. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 414 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>>The acceleration of those cars is just amazing. Pizzonia was only about what, 40 feet away? I wonder how fast Kimi was going when he hit. The actual accelleration of a current F1 car is around 2.8 - 2.9 seconds for a 0 - 62 MPH dash (100 KMH) (often overestimated and quoted at around 1.1 - 1.5 seconds!). So, just "guestimating", Kimi would be at around 60 - 70 MPH when he hit Pizzonia? I didn't watch a replay to time it. Jack | ||
| MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Junior Member Username: Kiyoharu Post Number: 239 Registered: 2-2003 |
Actually, Button had the inside line, and therefore, the right line and he's merely defending his position. DC was just pushing it too hard, especially after the first corner accident with Trulli that required a new nose (and an early pitstop). | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3514 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am no fan of DC but I did think that crash was button's fault 100% | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
New member Username: Zff Post Number: 44 Registered: 12-2002 |
The acceleration of those cars is just amazing. Pizzonia was only about what, 40 feet away? I wonder how fast Kimi was going when he hit. ..and what about the move that took out the other McLaren? Did you think DC tried to move inside too soon or Button was being over zealous trying to defend his position? I don't think they would've been out of line if they restarted the race, but I don't think it was really a problem that they didn't. ..and I don't think F1 should ever do away with the standing start. A lot of cars get mangled at the start or on turn 1, but no one really ever gets seriously injured, do they? | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 407 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>>A restart would have been the right thing to do: Too much sharp carbon fiber shrapnel all over the place. Very dangerous. Mmmm.... Nobody suffered from flat tires and the scrap was all on the right side of the track and they moved the cars to the left. I see not need to red-flag it. >>>F1 without a standing start wouldn't be F1 anymore. Only 'whimps' do rolling starts (hey, I live in the US...). I don't live in the US but I agree... ;-) >>>Dunno why Kimi hit Pizzonia In an interview Kimi said that Wilson was blocking his view, Wilson suddenly moved to the left and out of the blue there was Pizzonia... Oh well.. Jack | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3511 Registered: 9-2001 |
if you watch the replay, there were yellow flags waiving before Kimi even hit him so don't be quick to blame Pizzonia. Apparently the distance between the boxes was doubled this year - all that meant is more speed before you hit the guy in front | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 854 Registered: 10-2002 |
A restart would have been the right thing to do: Too much sharp carbon fiber shrapnel all over the place. Very dangerous. Not a question of Kimi deserving anything, just pure safety. F1 without a standing start wouldn't be F1 anymore. Only 'whimps' do rolling starts (hey, I live in the US...). Dunno why Kimi hit Pizzonia, maybe too short of time in between, but Pizzonia should have raised his hand(s), the start should have been aborted (red lights flashing) and/or Kimi warned by his crew over the radio. Sounds like another brain fade by Pizzonia (but he'll be out of F1 shortly anyway). | ||
| DJ (Godfather)
New member Username: Godfather Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2002 |
Is the FIA waiting for someone to get killed before they eliminate the standing starts? Also, Kimi really hasn�t accomplished anything in terms to deserve a restart.  | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3507 Registered: 9-2001 |
there will always be complaining - I would not have had a problem if they red flagged it - they just happened not to. The race you are refering too involved a driver going flying though the air and much more crap spread over the whole track. | ||
| MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Junior Member Username: Kiyoharu Post Number: 232 Registered: 2-2003 |
Martin Brundle (ITV-F1 commentator, the feed that we get here) said that the start should have been red-flagged. Do you think Ron Dennis will complain to the FIA that the stewards allowed it to continue, instead of red-flagging it so Kimi could start the race on the spare? I recall a race back in 2001 where Schumacher stalled at the grid and someone (Burti?) rammed him from the back, and the stewards re-started the race. A few people grumbled that they only did a re-start because of Schumacher (who's championship was still unconfirmed at that time, though he was leading by quite a margin), but of course, Schumacher DNF'ed that race anyway. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3506 Registered: 9-2001 |
GA looked great, alonso did well also. They have to be so happy the both cars stood up. KR DNF also helps |