| Author | Message | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 703 Registered: 8-2001 |
If you read my initial post below before the event you will see that I was convinced he would tear up the pavement and he did. Don't forget that this is not confined to four wheel cars. I am sure Art can shed some light on the matter but the same things that make a great four wheel racer (eye hand coordination, reaction times, quickk relfexes etc) also apply to the worlds best bike racers. Look at Surtees with Ferrari and now Rossi who tested both an F1 car and a Rally car and was running damn near the same times as the cars regular racers. Heck, McLaren test driver and former Benneton F1 racer Alexander Wurz racer BMX dirt bikes (pedal type not Motocross) and was European Champion twice as a kid before moving to Formula cars. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 499 Registered: 11-2002 |
I did not see this, but have read what you guys have said ... and other swapping events, like Rally car versus F1, etc. and it just reconfirms that the really good guys can drive just about anything, fairly well straight out of the box. This is the natural talent shining through. I have even seen Emanual Pirro drive a v8 Speedway car like he had done it all his life ... in front of a huge crowd and with in 2 of three laps he was as good as the regulars. The hard part is that last second or 2, and that is where the different driving styles for the different types of cars comes in to play. A saloon car moves around a lot, a single seater does not, a rally car needs more steering input due to the gravel, etc. I am impressed that Jeff was able to be smooth enough with the F1 to turn those lap times ... but I guess the oval experience helps with the smoothness required. Most saloon drivers grab their car by its neck and throw it around a bit ... er, the opposite with what is required for a quick single seater lap. I imagine Montoya just drove the Nascar like a road car ... ie, setting up real early to allow the suspension to settle, etc. Pete | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1240 Registered: 10-2002 |
That was very, very interesting. The ease with which Montoya adapted to NASCAR kinda confirmed what I was thinking about that series all along. Or as they put it in the show: "The step Jeff is going to take from his Winston cup car to the F1 is like going from a go kart to his car." Also was sad to see how such a talent like Gordon wasted his career on NASCAR instead of taking the next step into F1. What an opportunity missed, also for F1 as he (as an American) could have helped in a big way to make F1 more popular in the US. Having said all that, I have to admit, that I did like watching that NASCAR beast. Gotta drive one next time I'm in Daytona. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 673 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was very impressed with Jeff in the F1, he really adapted quickly and stood on the gas. I wonder how well he'd go without the traction control? Good show. | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 650 Registered: 9-2001 |
It was fun to watch, both did well and had lots of fun doing it | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 285 Registered: 7-2001 |
WATCH THIS SHOW!!!  Its great | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 668 Registered: 11-2002 |
1 PM eastern, 10 AM pacific, today! | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 649 Registered: 9-2001 |
You very well could be right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1236 Registered: 10-2002 |
Maybe the Cup cars are made of the same stuff your 308 is? They might simply melt. | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 648 Registered: 9-2001 |
There was some testing at the Glen a few years back with the Cup cars in the rain, never have seen a race in the rain yet | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1235 Registered: 10-2002 |
Do they drive Winston cars on road courses in the rain? F1 should be no problem. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1857 Registered: 1-2002 |
Rain is forecasted, unfortunately... | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1232 Registered: 10-2002 |
VCR has been set and programmed (hopefully!). Ready for a good show. According to a newspaper Gordon wanted JPM to drive in the oval, but Juan was skiddish claiming he hasn't driven in an oval for over two years. Which made me wonder, what would have happened if JPM had accepted? Would Gordon have taken the F1 out on the oval too? Now THAT would have been a treat. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 280 Registered: 1-2003 |
As everybody probably knows, Jeff Gordon is the best road course driver in NASCAR today and will probably do great times tomorrow. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1883 Registered: 6-2001 |
Terry: I've seen a contract or two for top level open wheel drivers. Sometimes there is a condition to guarantee a certain level of sponsorship money. The personal appearances are contractual, and sometimes they have to make x amount of appears, sometimes they get paid extra, etc. Art | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2001 |
Well, Minardi had Malaysian sponsors last year because it had a Malaysian driver. BAR's sponsors wanted a British driver and that's why Button is there now. Same for Jaguar. I also think there are indeed examples of driver's taking their sponsors with them when switching teams. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 564 Registered: 4-2002 |
Art, The F1 drivers definitely participate in tons of sponsor support efforts. Stuff like attending dinners, events, pressing the flesh and drumming up increased sponsor support. However, they do not go out and get sponsors. Michael Shumacher is not cold calling computer companies... When a F1 driver leaves one team for another, do you see that teams primary sponsors leaving with him? Nope. The next driver who comes in though will be expected to do all of the sponsor schmoozing that the prior driver did the year before. The F1 teams have marketing departments with serious professionals who do nothing but find and sign big dollar sponsors. The drivers are one tool these professional sales guys use. To say the drivers must bring in sponsors is a misnomer. The drivers do what they are told by the marketing boss.... and schmooze as required. The drivers primary job is testing and driving the car. Not prospecting for sponsors. Now a promising F3 driver.... I imagine he does very little other than prospect for sponsors! Unless daddy is VERY rich, being able to sell sponsors is your only hope. I have read about many young hotshots who sells shares of their future earnings should they make it to F1. I beleive Niki Lauda did this. They get a rich sponsor to pay $2,000,000 to fund 2 seasons in F3000 in exchange for 10% of their F1 earnings for a 10 year period. If the driver turns into a top level guy, could be a nice payback. If he fizzles.... oooops. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1877 Registered: 6-2001 |
Terry: They may not have to pay, but they do have to bring sponsorhsip in. Art | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 226 Registered: 4-2003 |
You have evidently never seen one of these take off like an airplane when the air flow going underneath the car gets disrupted. Actually if you watch enough NASCAR you will see that air flow problems are something the drivers deal with the entire race (on super speedways). Stock cars are glued to the ground by the same ground effects as the F1 cars. Hence one of the things NASCAR messes with most to slow them down are the spoilers. This loosens them up and to maintain control they have to slow down. Taking the air off the rear spoiler of the car in front coming out of the turn is the most common passing tactic. When that driver slows down to maintain control you have all the speed and traction to get around him. I don't care what kind of car you are in... air flow becomes a problem for anybody once you hit 150 MPH. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 562 Registered: 4-2002 |
Art... the top level F1 drivers are definitely not "pay to play". The teams are paying them pretty big dollars in salary plus incintives. There are occassionaly some bottom tier drivers for teams like Minardi that are indeed buying a seat or are required to bring in sponsorship. This is not at all the case for any "name" drivers. In F3000 however you are exactly right. They pretty much ALL are required to bring $$$ to the table in order to get a ride. No pay, no play. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1875 Registered: 6-2001 |
I don't know about Williams offering him a job, but I wonder how much money he would bring to the team. In these open wheeled series, most of the drivers, either pay for their ride, or are obligated to bring in a certain amount of sponsorship. Most contracts specify the amount, and provide, no money, no ride. Art | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
Junior Member Username: Zff Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2002 |
So you think if Gordon pulls off a stellar lap in the Williams a team might want to pick him up? Which one? Wouldn't that be interesting? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1874 Registered: 6-2001 |
The point about Gordon and F1 car is the ground effects. The wind has a very funny way of being unpredictable. When you watch an IRL race, and sometimes the cars get loose off the corners, because the guy behind them or in front of them changed the air. I understand that the stockers sometimes have that problem, but its much worse when 50% of your grip is dependant upon the air. He'd better be real careful until he gets enough knowledge about these types of things. Generally guys working their way up the ladder will drive a car such as F3000 or the Atlantics, etc. that are ground effects long before they get into F1 or the like. Art | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 629 Registered: 9-2001 |
Instructions given to the drivers To JPM, peddle to the metal, turn left, keep the greasy side down To Gordon, we don't have the bandwidth to print it all | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1166 Registered: 10-2002 |
I think Montoya will adapt quite nicely to running that Nascar car. After all he did win Indy in a CART (or was it an IRL?), which is also very heavy, down on brakes etc and goes in circles. But then again Montoya being Montoya, he might just slam the darn thing into the wall in turn 1. IMHO the best thing you can do with a NASCAR anyway... | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 626 Registered: 9-2001 |
The point I was trying to make is they both will have to make MAJOR changes in the way they drive, both have unheard amounts of talent. It really is a shame that good all around drivers, Gordon and Stewart ended up in Nascar, but money talks | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 220 Registered: 4-2003 |
DOH! JPM, Juan Pabolo Montoya. ::shaking head and rolling eyes:: I'm new to F1 and all the driver's initial thing that you guys use here. Bob, the post makes perfectly good sense now. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 498 Registered: 4-2003 |
I think, Bob wants to know how you get a car like that to go that fast. The question I have is: We sem to all think that Jeff cannot drive F1 as fast as Montoya, but can Montoya drive that heavy, underpowered, no good braking, left hand turn only, dynamically challenged, just plain ugly....as fast as Jeff Gordon can? Let me know who wins. thanks. I love F1. But I didn't find myself looking for the Monaco highligts. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 723 Registered: 2-2001 |
I don't think Montoya will have any problem at all JMHO. I think he will do much better in the stock car the Jeff in the F1. I would like to see Jeff do well however. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4472 Registered: 8-2002 |
Whew...! i thought i was the only one... Thanks, Craig... | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 217 Registered: 4-2003 |
What DES said! You lost me too Bob. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4460 Registered: 8-2002 |
Bob, i'm DESperately trying to understand what you just said but none of it's registering... Isn't the F1 car lighter than Gordan's nascar...? Doesn't it have open tires...? Doesn't it have more horsepower and better braking...? Am i totally in the dark here...? Please be patient with me, i'm really stupid sometimes, but i just can't figure out what you mean... Sorry... | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 624 Registered: 9-2001 |
So far all we have discussed is what Gordon may have trouble with, points to ponder for JPM, car is 2.5 times heavier with 200hp less and 1/3 the braking of the F1 car, plus front indicator points ( tires ) now covered up. Will the extra weight carry him to far out, will the lack of brakes put him into the wall? Or will he do so good he is signed on the spot by Dodge | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4427 Registered: 8-2002 |
Won't be able to watch it... Hope the rest of you can fill us in... | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 623 Registered: 9-2001 |
It will be live on Speed,1 pm eastern June 11th, replay June 20 I believe at 8:30 pm | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4423 Registered: 8-2002 |
Keep us posted on this...! i'd love to see Gordon make the transition from oval to, um, real racing... | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1163 Registered: 10-2002 |
Since we're all speculating, here my $ 0.02: I think the grooved tires will give him the most problems. I bet he'll say something like the car felt very nervous and I wouldn't be surprised if he loops it a few times because of that. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 559 Registered: 4-2002 |
The part that is going to throw Jeff is the braking. Nothing he has driven can prepare him for the capabilities of todays F1 brakes, they are insane. His sprint car experience will serve him well for handling the power/grip issue. I also think his reflexes and overall driving ability would probably allow him to build up to decent competitive times. However, give the relativly brief encounter he is going to get I dont see any way he will have time to really come to grips with the brakes. Wait and see.... he will be braking way too early even at the end of the session. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5145 Registered: 12-2000 |
Jeff Gordon has quite a bit road racing experience, I don't know how much in open wheel though. I bet he does really well, remember last year when him, another NASCAR guy, and a 3rd American won the world country championships in Rally cars against all these Euro nations made up of actual Rally racers! USA kicked butt! | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2003 |
Also don't forget that NASCAR does run at least two road course races a season. Gordon will not be a total stranger to the right hand turn. Well they used to anyway... it looks like there may only be one this year at Watkins Glen. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 689 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think Gordon will tear up the pavement. Kurt Busch also of NASCAR drove and open wheel Indy car this year (Can't remember which team) and was claimed to be only 1 1/2 second off the pace of the regular driver. Don't forget that Gordon came up thorugh the sprint car ranks and dirt tracks. He has raced open wheel 700 hp sprint cars on dirt. Racing is racing. Art is right that open wheel ground effects takes some getting used to but the principles are the same. Look at some of the guys who come from off road truck racing or 2 wheeled motorcross and are instanly competitive in NASCAR or CART. Can't say that there appears to be much in common between running the Baja 1000 in a truck vs. a Winston Cup car vs. an IRL/CART car (Robbie Gordon). Jon | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 619 Registered: 9-2002 |
This might bring more people to the sport in the US, a good thing, I think.... | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Junior Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 203 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think Jeff would have been a successful open wheeler but lets face it the money is in nascar in this country. And seats were hard to come by back then. Not to knock Zanardi but he couldn't hack stock cars remember he wrecked 2 iroc cars in 1 race and quit. Although I know superspeedway racing is a different animal. I hope he does well, not that I expect him to be jumping series any time soon. | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
Junior Member Username: Zff Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2002 |
Must be a dream come true for Jeff. I know the guy's a huge F1 fan. Let's see how well he can manage a right turn. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 969 Registered: 3-2002 |
SpeedChannel is showing it live. I believe it's 12 Eastern. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1863 Registered: 6-2001 |
Given what he's been driving, unless he's gotten experience in an open wheel, ground effects car, I would hope he doesn't hurt himself. Art | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 617 Registered: 9-2001 |
The sad part is Gordon might have been good in F1 before he got lured into Nascar, the man can drive | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1146 Registered: 10-2002 |
Very true. I wouldn't expect any wonders either. Remember Sarah Fisher last year? She was several seconds slower on a Mc Laren than the F1 drivers and she is used to a monoposto open wheel car. OTOH I'd expect Montoya to be fairly quick. He obviously has the oval experience (to say the least about an Indy winner). | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 249 Registered: 1-2003 |
Keep us up to date and report the test. I'll be surprised if he adapts quick. There's alot of difference between NASCAR and F-1. Remember Michael Andreddi? | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 614 Registered: 9-2001 |
I think it is June 11th, hope there will be a replay of it later in the day I believe it is around noon | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3823 Registered: 9-2001 |
is that this week when he is going to drive the williams |