| Author | Message | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2003 |
Jack; 1 point for each ligitimate pass that sticks to the end of the race for example a driver starts last and wins the race. He passed 11 cars on the way to the front the rest were passed from crashing out and in the pits so the driver would get 10 pts for the win and 11 for the passing. If for example RB starts on pole and MS is second and wins the race. he passes Rubens 20 times and rubens passes MS 19 times on track. MS would get 10 pts for the win and 1 for passing on track. Doing it this way you prevent team mates playing i pass you/you pass me for points. For example in france if this was in place when Kimi passed MS he would have gotten an extra point for passing MS on the start. Since we did not see if MS got around Kimi on track or in the pits it is hard to say what would happenif MS passed Kimi while in the pits kimi would keep the point. If MS passed on the track he would lose the passing point. Same goes for Rubens any driver that finished ahead of him would have gotten a point for passing him on his spin. But he would not get points for passing back cars that started behind him due to his on track error. I will try to get a copy of the lap chart from france and figure out the points for passing at that race. Rob | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1118 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rob, interesting, but my question is this: Do you limit how many passing points a driver can score off of any one individual? Imagine Rubens and Michael, way out in front, passing and re-passing each other. Or even the Minardis, for that matter. They could finish 19 & 20 but emerge from the race with who-knows-how many points! | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2003 |
Jack; If you look back at silverstone last year Rubens starting from the back of the grid. If he receved a point for each car he passed in the race he would have scored more points than Michael for winning the race. Just think of all of the hot drivers that if they felt they could score more by starting at the back of the pack and passing there way up to the front they would start back there. Also if the Minardi Drivers could get points for making passes on the track The championship race be more interesting. The passing points would not apply to the constructors since the it is the driver that is showing as they say on SpeedTV "who has the larger attachments". Who knows Jos and Justin Wilson could be caught in the middle of the points rankings if this was in place. Also we might see more banzi dives into the corner it would bring the spectator into the events again. Last year durring the USGP I got into more the battle between the Minardi's and Jags at the back then what was happening up front. Just my 2 cents worth. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1109 Registered: 3-2002 |
Points are a creative way to jumble things up, but I think it dances around the real changes that need to be instated. S**tcan the drivers' aids, pave over the chicanes, widen the tracks, lose the tire grooves, trim down the wings. It's racing, and that's what should be happening on the track. We've got a pretty good season going, but I hope they don't mistakenly think they've "fixed" Formula One. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2003 |
Andreas; Better deal than the reverse grid. Have the normal championship points for 1st thru 8th then also have 1 championship point to the driver for each ligitimate pass on the track no points for passing on a pit stop or passing because the driver crashed or blew up.. Just imagine MS, JPM or Kimi going slow in qualifing just to get the back row start. now that would be a race what do you think?? Rob | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1102 Registered: 3-2002 |
If he can cannibalize parts, then it's a stroke of genius. It's so expensive to make all these carbon pieces these days. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1498 Registered: 10-2002 |
Speaking of feeder fish and repainted cars: Just read in F1 magazine (in Europe, not US), that Stoddart bought for a bargain price all of the Arrows teams leftovers. 5 cars and tons of carbon replacement parts. He is now testing last year's Arrows and will then decide whether to repaint the car as Minardi and use it instead. No joke. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1076 Registered: 3-2002 |
I'm sure that at some point in history, fate, along with the stars and planets, will all align and that scenario will take place. However, it's obviously not something we see on a regular basis. Perhaps we're overstating how exciting it would actually be, too. The feeder fish know their place in the ocean's food chain, and we'd probably end up seeing a racing version of the Autobahn--pass on the left, hide out of the way on the right. I could see Eddie Jordan deciding to repaint the front of his cars Rosso Corsa. Nick Heidfeld pulls over to let his engine supplier slip by, only to learn it's Fisi in disguise! | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1490 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rubens Barrichello, another supporter of reversed grid! He decided to spice up the France GP and politely let the field go by after one lap to make for some interesting passing. Unfortunately run out of breath on what, the seventh position? Can't even remember anymore. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 992 Registered: 1-2002 |
jay- you & paul stodart would get along; he's been at whits end w/ the F1 biz for a while now, and the bigger team princpals for that matter b/c his slice of the pie isn't big enough to keep his head abouve water. sepaking of which, did any of you persue the arrows auction? i couldn't believe how much equipment a "smaller" f1 team has (something like 2900 items ) and that wasn't even itemizing every ratchet, etc. amazing. btw- all the tools were facom. no wonder they went belly up. | ||
| Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1409 Registered: 10-2001 |
I would like to see points given for qualifying. That way if you qualified 1st and won the race you would get the extra 1 or 2 points. It all comes down to money. Minardi needs money to get points and they won't get any money if they don't get any points! Bernie needs to share more of the wealth with the smaller teams. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 990 Registered: 1-2002 |
Andreas- of course it could happen, and I'd love to see it- TV screen has been spattered w/ a pint of guiness, out of laughter, in a long while. but, and this would really be the novelty of the event: how quickly the minardis would get passed, and how many car can get by before T1. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1486 Registered: 10-2002 |
Another champion for inversed grid. Good! Jack and Hubert, one more thing: Yes, the Minardis on pole was for naught and just a catchy media thing. BUT: Imagine for one second what had happened if we had the France weather on opposite days: We would have had a regular Friday practice and now really a Minardi on pole! It could happen. Indy and Suzuka are prone to have some bad weather moments in between. I haven't given up hope.  | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 51 Registered: 5-2003 |
If they use a combined system of times from both days let them run on friday in order of championship points. Then on saturday before qualifcations start have the drivers pull numbers from a hat to determine there slot for Saturday. This way if the driver puts in a scorcher on friday and pull #1 and ends of with a damp track like France on friday was they will more than likely be running with the have nots at the start. If the grid looks to be nothing but the top teams in front after both days then the stewards at there discression can invert the grid and make for an interesting race. When i raced professional motocross, if i was competing at a local track where i knew i had little to no competition I would start the race after the rest of the class was gone at least a 1/2 lap. It made the racing fun for myself since i was forced to push hard and i am sure who ever watched the race got some entertainment out of it also. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1485 Registered: 10-2002 |
You're quite right Jack. It is pretty much meaningless. The only advantage you get out of a quick run on Friday is that you start last on Saturday when there is more rubber on the track, which allegedly helps your speed. I think they made it two sessions in order to connect to the traditional 2 day qualifying as before. But you're right, even if it rains on Saturday, you would not fall back to your Friday's times but establish new ones. In essence it is half cooked. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1072 Registered: 3-2002 |
Here's what I don't understand. While the single-car format makes for good TV, why do they run it that way on Friday if the time is only used to establish Saturday's order? They should average the times to establish a composite qualifying time. It was fun to see Minardis running "fastest", but you knew it would mean nothing in the end. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1484 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hubert you got some good points. Definitely agree with your statement about the midfield runners. The qualifying system would be a lot more interesting, if the teams were allowed to work on the cars afterwards. Then the whole fuel thing would disappear. But I do like the single laps because it gives me a chance to see the midfielders with as much coverage as the front runners. You're right about the lost incentive to go flat out for victory (see Ralf in Canada), but it did level the plainfield somewhat. MS would already have a more substantial lead and therefore making the whole WC less interesting already. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 989 Registered: 1-2002 |
if you want to see passing, send bernie an envelope with, oh, a couple million and request more footage of the mid-pack; the front runners don't do much passing (granted), but there's a lot going on behind them. it's not shown, for the obvious reason, that the money is at the top of the grid. imo, the new qualifying rules are bollocks, really. it's painfully obvious that while they may have "spiced up" qualifying, it's still the top teams (ferrari, williams, mclaren, renault) that take up p1 - p6. above the shake-up, however, is the fia's intention to produce shocking news bites like today's "minardi on pole"; it garners interest, but at the end of the day is w/out substance, and the point system, frankly, discourages risking battling for 1st since the gap b/w p1 and p2 isn't as substantial as it has been in the past. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 988 Registered: 1-2002 |
all the f1 critics: if you want to see passing, send bernie an envelope with, oh, a couple million and request more footage of the mid-pack; the front runners don't do much passing, but there's a lot going on behind them. it's not shown, for the obvious reason, that the money is at the top of the grid. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1334 Registered: 11-2001 |
what's the weather forecast for the race? doody. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1482 Registered: 10-2002 |
Yes Jay. Donington in the rain. Reverse grid would bring back passing. No arbitrary weather dependant qualifying session needed. I wish I had Bernie's email address. Somebody should tell him this. Simple rule, highly efficient. | ||
| Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1407 Registered: 10-2001 |
Remember Senna passing 5 people on the first lap in the rain?!?!?! Can't beat the action. Bring back passing in Formula 1. I'm tired of seeing everyone wait for the pit stop to make up spots. If there is only one pass in a race it makes all the highlight reels on TV. How about we get back to racing and scrap the high speed cruise? Minardi rocks! LOL | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 303 Registered: 11-2002 |
Minardi star Justin Wilson is under investigation and his qualifying timer could be scrapped. It's understood that the Englishman's car is believed to be 2kg underweight. Stewards are currently looking into the matter which if proven would mean that Wilson loses this afternoon's time. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1477 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rob and DGS: Yes, yes. Yes to demolition derby (possibly) and yes to the best racing ever. I once watched the son of former UK premier Thatcher do a touring car race in Brands Hatch and just for show they forced him (the points leader) to start from the pack. It was fantastic and he won. Also I never forget the two McLarens in Monaco who blew qualifying and had to start basically from the back. Of all places in Monaco! And Lauda and Watson piled through the field and did win the race (I believe, all from leaking memory). So yeah, the potential for first turn accident is there (make that the Adelaide hair pin in Magny Cours, not the first turn really), but it would make for some spectacular racing. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
New member Username: Beast Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2003 |
Andreas; I would love to see a race set up that way based on WC points, With the top 2 in points last on the grid. it would make for some of the greatest racing ever seen. | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 138 Registered: 5-2003 |
SPOILER: News flash: Ferrari beat by Minardi, Toyota, Sauber, and Jaguar! Oh ${DEITY}, can you imagine the demolition derby going into turn one if they actually started that way?! Oh yeah, these new qualifying rules work good. I can't wait for next year's qualifying rules: Pin the tail on the grid map. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1476 Registered: 10-2002 |
...sheesh, never thought I'd ever be able to make that announcement. First qualifying session in France started with rain and ended with sunshine. Hence the unusual outcome. So it'll be interesting what tomorrow's weather will be like. My ultimate dream might come true: Reversed grid with the Minardis in the front and the WC leaders in the back. Can you imagine that race? Jos the Boss! |