| Author | Message | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1585 Registered: 10-2002 |
You don't even have to bring up Arrows: When Ferrari was down and out, it was a blessing for them to get Alain Prost's #1 back on their cars. Luckily those days are over (the sucky ones, not about Alain Prost). | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 339 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andreas, you are right - nearly! The winning driver has number 1 and his team-mate gets number 2. That's why in 1997 the Arrows of Damon Hill was number 1, even though Arrows were a crap team! After that it is decided on constructors points, so the winning constructor would have 3 and 4 etc. If the winning driver also drives for the winning team then they have 1 and 2. You will also notice that there is no number 13 as that is an unlucky number. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1583 Registered: 10-2002 |
James, I don't think so: I *believe* the numbers are based on the team's standing in the constructor's title and only for the world champion, there is the number #1. So using 2002 as an example: Michael won, hence he gets #1. Rubens gets #2 by default (the numbers are always consecutive), not because he was runner up in the championship. Williams was second in the constructor's title, therefore they get the numbers 3 and 4 and so on. I *believe*, that it is up to Williams to give #3 to either Ralf or JPM. Same goes for the other teams. | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 147 Registered: 6-2003 |
Correct me if I am wrong here. Doesn't the number on the car correspond with the finishing position in the previous years WC races for the driver of that particular car. Michael #1, Rubens #2 etc. At least that is the way it was in the AMA professional ranks. If you were the championship driver in 2002, you ran the #1 plate in 2003. If you finished second in points in 2002, you got the #2 plate for 2003. I guess I could be wrong here, but isn't that the way the numbers are assigned, except for those who did not race in the WC series the year before. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1581 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rubens has nothing to loose, so he could drive to his heart's content and take risks. His only job: Score points for the constructor's title and snatch points away from Kimi. Kimi and Michael are fighting for the WC. That changes your driving. Especially with the current points system. You can't take any risk anymore. No, neither Ferrari nor Michael have the WC locked in: All it takes is one DNF and Kimi on the podium and Mc Laren takes the lead again. Scoring points is the motto. Not necessarily winning. | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
New member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2003 |
I guess Rubens just had the better set of tyres at Silverstone. I heard he was running hard rubber and Schummy the soft set. Or maybe Schummy was just conserving his car for the long run, he already has the WC locked unless he blows it completely. I guess Scudaria Ferrari wants to win it all and put Rubens in second. They are masters of their universe, for sure. Can they change the numbers on a car from race to race?? That might explain it. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 864 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mmmmm..... Have been looking at some numbers after the UK race. Let's not forget that RB is paid to play second fiddle and that the team is centered around MS. So far, both gentlemen each bagged 6 podium finishes (while admitting that MS bagged 4 wins compared to RB 4 x 3rd place). MS might have won (at least) 2 titles in a car which wasn't the fastest BUT.... MS NEVER won a title in a team where he was 2nd driver... and neither will RB... Having said that, I still think RB's performance as second fiddle is excellent. When MS's performance is under par, he gets comments like "very mature to conserve championship points". This boggles me, especially taking all the "flaming" of RB into account... Jack | ||
| Trevor Ely (Bmwm3n528)
Junior Member Username: Bmwm3n528 Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yeah, im really, really glad Rubens got this race, he definately earned it...I still tend to think JPM is a better driver, but this race certainly showed how good a driver Rubens really is...either way Kimi is a incredibly driver, that seems to (atleast recently) have lots of bad luck... trevor | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1570 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm not a Kimi fan (not much charisma), but he'll be WC one day. Rubens won't. Don't forget that the Mc Laren is still last year's car. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 297 Registered: 7-2001 |
Rubens proved today he is a RACER...just ask the so called RACER...KIMI...excuse me mate but Ive got a race to win.....see you later!  | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 858 Registered: 4-2003 |
Rich, I'm flexible on the timing.... ;-) Pete, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEE UUUUUUUUUUUUP! Jack | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 760 Registered: 2-2001 |
I wouldn't say he needs any excuses today. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 79 Registered: 5-2003 |
Pete; The only problem is that i think that the FIA and FIM require future champions to meet there trophy wifes at the race track. Good concept but replace psk with "Old an decrepit retired pro motocross racer 'beast' comes out of retirement and wins moto GP, F1 and Sun City Az Golf Cart racing championships in the same year!!!!." Damm i guess i better get my fat butt back into shape!!! LOL Rob | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 716 Registered: 11-2002 |
Heh,
He does not have to crash ... think of his kids guys. Otherwise great idea, or though I would rather it went like: 2003 PSk wins the Design your Dream Ducati Competition (yes I have entered ) January 2004 Ducati employes PSk to design new MotoGP challenger. April 2004 PSk is so fast in testing that they create a #3 position in the MotoGP team ... since he has never raced a bike before. 2005 season PSk brilliant destroys the MotoGP opposition and wins 80% of the races. September 2005 Ferrari purchase Ducati and discussions with Ferrari F1 start regarding PSk driving ... since he has raced cars before and is so fast on a bike December 2005 PSk tests 2006 prototype F2006 and impresses after nearly breaking the lap record. 2006 season PSk takes a permanent test driver role in the F1 team, while continuing to design Ducatis Midway through the 2006 season PSk replaces #2 driver and scores first win 2 races later!!! 2007 PSk narrowly misses out on championship in first full year. 2008 PSk World Champion , now that would be cool. Reaction from wife at each step would be interesting ... Pete | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 364 Registered: 10-2001 |
As a former, and surely future Ducati owner, that sounds great to me. In fact, maybe your schedule will be moved up a bit: Check the "Piero Ferrari offers Rossi a test" or something like that story on http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html -Rich | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 840 Registered: 4-2003 |
Rich, I couldn't agree with your more... This is what I wrote in an earlier post: >>> January 2005 Ferrari spa announces the acquisition of the Ducati Motorcycle empire. March 2005 Ducati signs Valentino Rossi as # 1 rider. April 2005 VR does his first laps in the Ferrari F2005 at Fiorano and proves to be fast. June 2005 Schumacher crashes badly at Fiorano while trying to overtake VR who has been consistently faster. June 2005 VR replaces MS as # 1 driver at Ferrari AND remains the # 1 in Ducati MotoGP team. October 2005 VR snatches second place in the F1 Worldchampionship behind Kimi Raikonen AND is again MotoGP Champion with Ducati January - December 2006 VR Rulezzzzzzzz! <<< Jack | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 357 Registered: 10-2001 |
And the next Ferrari World Champion driver of the post-Schumacher era....Valentino Rossi! | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 169 Registered: 5-2003 |
I can't see Alonso leaving Renault while his personal manager is on the Renault team. And Ferrari really doesn't need two #1 drivers splitting the team's focus. Williams might put up a good fight on the manufacturer's points, but with both Williams and McLaren splitting the points between drivers, they're probably going to lose the individual championship to Michael. Andy, Eddie might have had trouble with setup, but remember the number of times last year that Michael took pole at the last minute, and said that he finally just used Rubens' settings? I think the new qualifying rules are really hurting Rubens. Michael can drive a not-quite-right car, while Rubens no longer has a chance to get his car dialed in. | ||
| rick catalano (Tatcat)
Junior Member Username: Tatcat Post Number: 98 Registered: 9-2001 |
i like rubens alot too, but perhaps it's time for him to move on. i have to agree that an alonso/barichello swap would be a treat. young blood for the team and a chance for rubens to still drive a competitive car. me likey. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 213 Registered: 3-2003 |
Rubens has done a masterful job of number 2 driver. He NEVER has anything negative to say about his team mate and is always looking to support the team first. If MS and RB were fighting each other all of last year, MS wouldn't have clinched so early in the season. With the 2003GA doing so poorly this season, it really points out the gap in talent between our boys. Imagine where RB would be if MS wasn't driving any more... (remember how well Eddie Irvine did for the two or three races after MS was out with his broken leg - it was all on the setup and development MS had done, but once everyone had caught up and it was up to Irvine to give feedback to the engineers, he failed and couldn't do a thing right. Rubens unfortunately would be in the same position - IMO) | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5377 Registered: 8-2002 |
...which, by the way, only has 4 gears and still i managed to eat a Mustang the other night, the RPM needle groping the red line at 101mph, in a turn his car could obviously handle, but he couldn't... Someone else mentioned, "it's not the car, it's the DRIVER..!" Bring it on, boys... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5372 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL, you two are bugged out - alotta racing lingo there that i didn't understand much of... Hubert, i don't need that car, i'll bring the Scuderia Imitazione and roast you guys in that...! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1043 Registered: 1-2002 |
DGS- Green track, bah! Who needs grip anyway. I'm chairman of the local "drift/slowline sideways" community group; watch those lap times grow. | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 161 Registered: 5-2003 |
DES, we can let Hugh take the car out on the green track. Unless you prefer to be the Minardi of the session.  What's the weather forecast for that day? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1032 Registered: 1-2002 |
des: ya caint drive a car dats blown up. | ||
| DESperately awaiting Friday (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5342 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hubert, you're third - DGS is first, then me - quit shovin', just wait in line like yer 'sposed to...! | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
Junior Member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 105 Registered: 6-2003 |
Ferrari is leading the manufacturer's championship and it talkes two drivers to do that except for last year when Michael could have done it alone. This year he could not. Even with the poor job the Bridgestones have been doing this year, I believe Rubens holds more talent than half the field. Yes, he has had lapses in concentration and real world championship quality drivers usually do not suffer much from this but I still believe he plays his role as #2 driver quite well. He is scoring points for Ferrari even after a wonder why it happened spin. Whenever Ferrari does not finish 1&2, someone is always wanting to replace #2. If Ferrari takes the Manufacturer Championship this year, Rubens will have done exactly as he is paid to do. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1012 Registered: 1-2002 |
DGS- Bah. Even schumi spun (USGP circa '00). Then again, he (RB) qualified 8th, right? About the spin, though, I thought he got tapped; I was opening a beer when it happened. Anyway, I got dibs on the f2003-GA ride. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5234 Registered: 8-2002 |
DGS, sounds good to me...! | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 156 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hugh, I think that's the issue: "real" drivers never spin. DES: Poifekt: The First Annual FerrariChat Rubens Replacement Drive-off : Everybody from FerrariChat gets five laps in the F2003GA, and the fastest lapper gets Rubens' seat. (And no, sucking up spilled beer doesn't count.) All in flavor? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5205 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sounds like it's about time he be replaced... Someone give Ferrari my number so they can call me and we can work something out, mkay...? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1003 Registered: 1-2002 |
In rubinos defense. He was back in 13th b/c he spun at the outset of the second lap, and was making his way back up. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 750 Registered: 8-2001 |
Don't get me wrong I like Ruebens but he isn't helping the team much and in the end that is why he is there in the first place. He's been so far back on the grid that he hasn't been a threat to cause problems for Mclaren or Williams. We all know MS is #1 but we also know RB is there to help MS win the Championship. Trulli will never drive for Ferrari. He has no charisma, isn't known for giving mechanics good feedback, not the ideal team PR/sponsor guy, and has never delivered on race day. I cetainly don't think we need to be looking for a future champion right now, after all that is not RB's role. However, it would be nice (and good PR) to see Fisi, an Italian, driving for Ferrari. He is near the end of his career and although a great driver, I doubt he would threaten MS since it would be made clear he is a #2 at Ferrari. I also think it times to get rid of the "stigma" attached to having an Italian driving for Ferrari. I know Enzo had a thing against Italians driving for him but that time has passed. I also don't think Massa would be much of a threat to MS but would learn more valuable seat time along MS. testing is all well and good but it doesn't teach much in the way of race craft or setup and this is something that Massa severely lacked at Sauber. Reubens has shown outright speed and flashes of brilliance in the old car which had a major advantage with the superior Bridgestones, but he has looked very "off pace" in recent races. Yesterday at one point he was back in 13th trying to battle with JV and Panis. Even with all the problems with the tires MS was cranking out hot laps on his third stint that were way ahead of RB's pace. I just think it's time for a fresh face. I remember when it was time for Eddie Irvine to go and now I think RB's time is up. Regards, Jon | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 308 Registered: 11-2002 |
I think Rubens is finding things particularly tough this season. I do like the guy and I try to defend him, but he has simply had too many 'ordinary' races this year. His spin in France was unfortunately pretty typical. My understanding is that Rubens will keep his seat for next year and Massa will do a season at Sauber before racing for the Scuderia in 2005. If Rubens doesn't up his performance this season then maybe he'll be the one in a Sauber next year? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1000 Registered: 1-2002 |
rubens won't be champ b/c ferrari won't let him -- that is, not until MS secures WC # 6. After that it's a possibility; ferrari may try to becoming the most successful team, but RB's contract extension is only until next year (if i remember) while the rest of the "squads" contracts last until '05/'06. plain to see that RB isn't seen as an integral part of scudderia ferrari marlboro. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 659 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rubens might as well stay. Unfortunately he will never be champion, as he is not mentally strong enough. As has been discussed, if his car is perfect he is fast ... if not he cannot handle it. Unfortunately racing is not this easy, thus he either needs to learn how to drive around problems and keep the pace up, or keep earning the bucks and accept that he has not got what it takes. Pete | ||
| Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1411 Registered: 10-2001 |
Personally I like Rubens. I think he does have the talent to be a great driver, but how would you feel playing second fiddle to MS? I think alot of his problem is mental. As mentioned Rubens has been consistant in scoring points this year. After MS retires I would love to see Trulli and Fisi both at Ferrari...let's keep it all Italian. Rubens by the way is of Italian descent, he just so happens to have been born in Basil. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1096 Registered: 3-2002 |
Didn't Michael just recently confirm another contract extension (05 or 06)? That being the case, I don't think Ferrari is the ideal destination for a driver, unless written into the contract was the understanding that MS already has 5-6 Championships, a buttload of wins and points, and if you really want a young hot driver to maintain this run of success, then he has to be allowed to race, and MS will stay out of his hair. I mean, would you really want to deal with that kind of BS for 2 or 3 years? | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2003 |
Perhaps Alonso will be champ some day. But that doesn't mean that Ferrari needs him as a support driver this year. And the only drivers "doing a lot better" than Rubens (in the points) are Kimi, Montoya, and the Schumacher brothers -- the other drivers that consistently pull in points most races. I suspect DC and Trulli are wishing they were doing as "badly" as Rubens. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1494 Registered: 10-2002 |
Actually I quite like the new points system. It keeps the field together. That's what makes for an interesting WC year. I like Rubens, but recently his performance is going down. Even in a team and car tailored to Michael (you're quite right about that), he ought to be doing a lot better. I stand with my Alonso prediction. If his engine hadn't blown, there had be no way for Michael to get past him. And comparing Alonso in his, what 2nd season and first one in a real car to Rubens who has been around for ten years or more, is a bit unfair. But just wait and see. He'll be champion one day. | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 149 Registered: 5-2003 |
The team that has Michael isn't likely to go looking for a world champion -- they've got one. What they need is a good support driver. Let's not forget that Rubens has scored points in every race this year except Australia (wall) and Brazil (engine). He's been on podium for five of the ten races. And Rubens has as many points as "future champ" Alonso (whose only been on the podium twice -- plus a post-race ruling). Is it all that surprising that Rubens isn't doing as well as Michael in a car tailored to Michael? But Michael has been on podium six times this year to Rubins' five -- and it took Michael until Imola to get there, while Rubins finished second in Malaysia. Wait 'till Ralf and Montoya take each other out of a race (again) before you wish for two front runners on the team. Ferrari could do much worse in their #2 car. I think the problem this year is that the points are spread too thin. Michael won four out of ten races and got points in five others, and is still only eight points ahead of Kimi, who only won once and DNF'd twice. They went from 9 to 10 points for 1st because three points betwen 1st and 2nd was considered too few. Now they're down to two points difference. Don't blame Rubins because Ferrari isn't smearing the field. FIA rewrote the rules so that the driver with twice the wins isn't way ahead on points. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1489 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jon, it looks as if the race just confirmed your thoughts: Spin in the first lap for no good reason. Well and Ferrari probably thinks the same way, that's why his contract is the only one not renewed so far. Mass I like a lot, but not sure he could fit these shoes yet. I think he'll be back in the Sauber next year and if he does well, he might be in a Ferrari as early as 2005. I would love to see Montoya in the Ferrari, but that won't happen either. Fisichella? No thanks, might as well keep Rubens. So who's left? ALONSO - FUTURE WORLD CHAMPION! | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Junior Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 179 Registered: 1-2003 |
Should not this be detrimed after all the races? The French GP starts shortly. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 53 Registered: 5-2003 |
Rubens is truly not that bad of a driver. Last year it seemed as if he was more in tune with the car than this year. It seems to myself that Ferrari is a good car but there is a few small problems when totaled together creates what appears to be a weak package. So far this year these are the problems i have noticed with the team: 1. The Bridgestone tires are not up to the task in the dry. 2. Rubens and Micheal have not totaly gotten used to the new qualifing in race trim. 3. Ross Brawn is having problems with race stratagy. 4. The team lost a lot of development time due to crashes on the 2003-GA. Total up all of these and it has allowed Williams and McLaren to catch up. I have faith in the team since the one item they seem to be super strong on is reliability. where as the other 2 are having problems keeping the car going to the finish. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 993 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jon- I agree. While RB may be a "good" driver, he's not a great driver. I'm not sure that Massa belongs in the race seat, Fisi, however, I'd like to see in a competative car (him being italian isn't a bad bonus either.) What're your thoughts on the f2003-GA? I think the car is being held back, somehow, maybe it's the tires, or maybe it's underpowered, but there's something not right with the new car, IMO. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 749 Registered: 8-2001 |
Many of us on this board got into a lenghty discussion last year on RB's speed vs. MS. I was one who pointed out that except for a few isolated races/sessions RB was never on pace with MS. He was closer to MS last year because the car was by far the best on the grid and possibly close to being a "perfect" race car. Now, this year the Bridgestones are not holding up and the car isn't as good. Even with traction conrol RB is way behind MS. I like RB, and no doubt he has boat loads of talent but against a potential six time world champion he has come up short. My biggest gripe this year is that RB has an excuse nearly every race for why MS was faster or why he finished behind MS on the poduim. it's always one of two things 1) My second set (or third or whatever) of tires didn't work well and ....... 2) The car was extremely unbalanced and hard to drive I was struggling with grip....blah, blah, blah..... When MS doesn't do well he attributes a superior performance from his competitors or he says they were not able to match Williams, McLaren, Michelin, etc... We all know the Michelin's are better this year in the dry but MS refuses to make excuses. Excuses is about all we hear from RB. Nice guy and helped MS win some Championships but it's time for Fisi or Massa to step up. A world class driver can win with a less than perfect car. The true test of a champion is winning in a non-competitive (or a car that is second best). MS won two titles with Benneton and at least one more with Ferrari with a car that was not the best on the grid. RB is not and will never be Championship material. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 |