| Author | Message | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 907 Registered: 11-2002 |
James,
Agree, but I can still yell at them  ... I'm an emotional person, and when I used to club race I used to yell at myself, if the car was not working right!!! I still support Ferrari, and always will but I will give them a hard time when they are not performing ... I am not one for being nice to my 'team' no matter how they are performing ... that is just rubbish IMO and sets low expectations (heh, I do not and could not live like that ). As for the Alfa, I have nearly fixed the damage caused by the shipping ... but working way too hard to get much time on her. Pete | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 369 Registered: 11-2002 |
Brigestone and Ferrari will be throwing everything into the upcoming testing at Monza. One of the problems has been the testing ban since Hockenheim. At Hockenheim we could see that the Bridgestones were not the tyre to have. We also knew that it wouldn't be possible to do any work on them in the 3 weeks between races because of the testing ban. We expected to be beaten at Hungary, but we hoped for better than 8th! Ferrai will have no excuses at Monza though. I'm going to Monza and the atmosphere should be pretty tense. Here's what James Allen thinks: "Going back to the question of Michael seeing the future upon the podium, he will now be asking himself the following - will he be able to get one more crack at the title before he�s ready to retire? How long will it take Bridgestone to turn this around? I�ve done a lot of research on this subject in recent weeks, talking to Bridgestone and Michelin people and to engineers and drivers from teams using both tyres. The answer I�m getting is that it doesn�t look good for Ferrari. Michelin have developed a way of constructing F1 tyres, which offers superior grip to the Bridgestones. It took them 18 months to develop the technology but from May onwards they have had a clear edge at most tracks except Silverstone, where they were about on a par with Bridgestone. Ferrari say that tyres are not the whole story, that there are many things to be improved on the car. They are brilliant at development and at fixing problems quickly, but I still think this problem is more out of their hands than in them. Ferrari has an extensive series of updates to the car for Monza, so we will see if any of them make up the shortfall. The results at Monza and Indy will give us a good idea of how competitive Ferrari and Bridgestone might be next year." | ||
| Kevin S. (Wolfgang5150)
New member Username: Wolfgang5150 Post Number: 34 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hubert: Not sure how the FIA found out - the rules state that each team must specify which compound they are going to race on before Sat. qualifying - perhaps the FIA checks them after the race, and noticed some inconsistencies (ie. if Ferrari chose a hard compound and the front 'hard' compound was different than the rear 'hard' compound). I'm surprised that more hasn't been written about this. I don't think that Bridgestone was cheating, but exposing a weak area in the rules. Kevin | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 260 Registered: 5-2003 |
"Montezemolo read them the riot act on Monday," That was one meeting that i was glad that i was not at. Personaly if it was myself i would be planting a size 15 shoe where the sun dont shine, but that is just me. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1292 Registered: 1-2002 |
kevin s: So, I guess it's true then, about using soft rears and hard fronts. Thought it was just a rumor. Further (since we can't get off the tire subject) michelin is now said to be reinforcing their tires with kevlar, also the profile that michelin uses (more block shape v. the rounded briidgestone) is said to provide a bit more cornering stability v. the bridgestone. Hey , kevin, so who ratted on ferrari w/ the tires? From what I heard it happened at monaco, but that a july date, not april. | ||
| Kevin S. (Wolfgang5150)
New member Username: Wolfgang5150 Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2003 |
The major problem is that Bridgestone was developing two different compounds for the F2003-GA; one set for the front tires & one set for the rear. They perfected this last year, that's why the F2002 was so dominant (well, part of the reason) The FIA slapped them hard in mid-April; hence the big drop-off in performace. Also that's when Williams started to understand their car and get the back end under control. Ferrari has now had to re-adjust the car by using only soft or hard; not a combination of the two. They can still custom make compunds for the car F2003, but they are trying to figure which one is fastest, and wears the least. KS | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1945 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mike, it doesn't take long in F1 to become middle of the field: 1999 Ferrari dropped their tools after Silverstone and the car went from a winner to an also run in no time. Only when Michael's leg was healing did the pick up the pieces again and also came back roaring. So I give you this, that it is possible for them to find the lost time and still come back this season. And yes, it is more than just the tires. Montezemolo read them the riot act on Monday, so there is hope. But if I had to bet $ 100 on a driver right now, I'd put it on JPM. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 327 Registered: 12-2002 |
The reason I say it is nuts for Ferrari to run to Michelin, is because it has been, what 4 or 5 races that the Michelins have been superior? And the reason Ferrari can't keep up is because, as I understand, the entire Ferrari car (suspension, the way it transitions, etc) is built around the tires. They can't just put a new tire on there - it would require major redesigns to the car. How quickly we forget that the Michelin cars were SLOW for the first half of this year. Then they come up with a different compound and everyone wants Ferrari to jump ship? It would probably set them BACK because the entire relationship with the tire manufacturer would need to start from scratch. I say it's a silly proposition because they have so much invested in Bridgestone, and until Bridgestone tries (and fails) to come up with an alternative and better package, it's WAY premature to suggest ditching bridgestone. What happens next year if Bridgestone closes the gap or leapfrogs Michelin? Should Ferrari go back to Bridgestone (who would be perfectly within reason to tell Ferrari to shove it). And yes, I have seen the races and see the slower pace of Ferrari. That doesn't mean they can't win the WC. Hungary is a NOTORIOUSLY bad track for the Ferrari in it's current form, the other races should be much more interesting. MS still has the most wins, and is still leading the WC. Look at the overall picture - MS (and RB) had a disappointing start to the season. MS wasn't on the podium in the first 3 races, and RB had 2 DNF's. At that time, everyone was lamenting the fall of Ferrari. THen BAM! MS has 3 straight wins, a 3rd and then another win, and RB has three 3rd place finishes and everyone is talking about how they knew all along Ferrari could do it. Then only 5 races later (during which MS got a 3rd, RB got a 3rd and ALSO a WIN!) everyone is saying how Ferrari lost it, and it's all over, and they might as well pack it in. Man, don't some of you guys have ANY faith in Ferrari? RB WON just three races ago. In TWO races you guys think Ferrari has gone from #1 to a junk backmarket team who would be re-evaluating their whole car and bringing back last years car? That's NUTS! Nobody has a better chance to win the WC than Schumacher. True, Ferrari is not looking like the #1 choice to win constructors, but all it takes is another bonehead move by Ralf (taking himself out of the race) or JPM (spinning/crashing/blowing up) and a 1-2 finish by Ferrari and they are RIGHT back where they want to be. And then everyone here can say how they knew it all along and how they never lost faith and how great Ferrari is and how they never faltered in their loyalty even for a moment. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Junior Member Username: Wax Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2003 |
That's true about being a fan(atic). Yelling at or for the Team is part and parcel of the commitment when one chooses their team colors. Live and die by the team through highs and lows. Before Hungary came and went, I'd read that Renault was *really* excited about their chances. They were right. "They" being the operative word when one is a fan of a different team. Ferrari. | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member Username: Aventino Post Number: 69 Registered: 6-2003 |
Pete, Part of being a fan is supporting them whatever. The lows will only make the highs better. Was strange watching Micheal struggle in practice though, it doesn't go through the twisty bits anything like the Renault. How goes it with the Alfa? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 906 Registered: 11-2002 |
Doing a good demonstration of a team who does not give a f**k!!! I'm all for destroying all the F2003GA cars and bringing back the F2002 ... which actually worked with the Bridgestone tyres ... and lets face it, it has been absolute BULLSH!T all along that the F2003 is faster than last years car. They should have kept racing the F2002, as it was doing okay. If the luck had been with MS at the beginning of the season the F2002 would have won the first 3 races ... We also need to remember that Bridgestone will be supplying a tyre that Ferrari requested ... after all Ferrari is the only Bridgestone team that matters ... so it is not all Bridgestones fault. Pete Thus Ferrari admit the F**k-up and scrap the F2003GA to the hall of shame. (Maybe in their attempt to improve aerodynamics (which IMO they have NOT) they have structurally weakened the car so that it is not applying the power correctly and consistently ???) | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1944 Registered: 10-2002 |
It is a secret agreement between Bernie and Michael: Let Montoya become champion this year. That will boost the long desired American audience and stop the talk about the boring Ferrari dominance. Then next year Michael can get the sith crown and retire afterwards with a new record. The drama is perfect. ...or maybe it is just life imitating Bernie. | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 279 Registered: 5-2002 |
And after all of this, we still have to remain calm, and remember that Michael still does have the lead in the championship... and after last year I think Ferrari's current team wants it enough not to just throw it away just yet. | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 278 Registered: 5-2002 |
http://www.f1racing.net/news.php?ID=61903 Looks as though Niki Lauda's opinions echo some of ours... why is Rubens outpacing Michael, and is there more to the this slowness than tires? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1289 Registered: 1-2002 |
jack: sorry that "was" in my post should have said "wasn't" oopsie. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 926 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hubert, what I noticed is that, coming out of the last turn, the Renault of Trulli would pull away slightly from MS and that MS could NOT close the gap far enough to position himself to overtake Trulli at the end of the start/finish straight. The Renault enigine is immensly strong and they have power upgrades almost at every race. MS was a consistent 8th place this weekend, setting 8th place in quali, 8th in the race and also 8th fastest lap. Even Da Matta (just to pick the least likely one) was faster than MS. I don't think that "MS was held up by Trulli" is so valid. If he was faster, he should have passed him..... grinnnnnnnnnn Jack | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1288 Registered: 1-2002 |
jack: compare the sector times http://formula1.com/race/timings/30/8.html ms and trulli were the same. ms was held up by trulli, considerably. imo, if the 2003ga was or is better than the 2002, he should have gotten around since in '02 the 2002 was posting lap times in the 1.16 range v. 1.24.9's this year. i know the circuts been changed (slightly), but not 11 seconds worth. there's something wrong. b/e we all know trulli isn't a better driver than MS. further ralf and JPM both got around trulli, and ralf got around MS. they both went on to pass webber and DC. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 925 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hubert, no I don't have the exact speeds at hand but looking at the "fight" between Trulli and MS in the final stages of the race, the cars were quite evenly matched both in terms of grip and speeds. Assuming that the F2003GA is indeed faster than the F2002 (which I maintain as a safe assumption), it is the other manufacturers (in this case Renault) who have closed the gap. Jack | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1287 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jack: I didn't say they should switch tire makes, I just said that their equipment is , obviously, part of the problem since the perofrmance is not equivelant to last year. There's something lacking. Also, someone said the 2003ga was as fast down the straights (do you have the #'s?) or even the avg. time for MS v. the rest of the field? And, a lot of you are starting to sound like MS is as has been, wtf? Has his consistency wained? Is he crashing or making stupid mistake every race? Has he in any way shown a lack of concentration? I haven't seen it. Anyway, fact of the matter is, the new rules , and some technical issues are houding the team, but the other teams have steeped up the plate, and so has the other tire manufacture. Also, there was a rumor going round that at monaco, ferrari were running soft fronts and hard rears (technically a no no), and someone made an annonymous informal inquiry to the fia; since monaco, ferrari has been lacking. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1939 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jack, I agree to your MS statements. He did some great driving and kept his calm in the Zeltweg fire, but it wasn't as paramount as previous years. True. I think you're also quite right about the 02 vs 03 car comparison. They're too professional to make such a blunder. I still would prefer to see the Ferraris with Michelin tires, if for no other reason than bringing back memories from the good ol' days (similar argument could be made for Goodyear). I wonder what contractual agreements Ferrari might have with Bridgestone. Do you guys know whether Ferrari production cars are delivered solely on Bridgestones? Maybe they can't just switch like that even if they wanted? | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 919 Registered: 4-2003 |
@ Andreas: Sure MS's record is unheard of, the number of wins, poles etc. But looking at this season, He is BY FAR not as impressive as he used to be. I am by no means a fan of his which doesn't mean I can't respect his performance, which I do respect. But forget the past and look at the last few races and assume all drivers are rookies... Would MS catch your eye AT ALL? I don't think so, he performs like a nice second driver in a red F1 car. I wrote a quite critical and sarcastic post about him early on this season (which didn't make me popular, but who cares... it's still my opinion...) but at this stage in time, I still have a lot more respect for RB than for MS. @ the rest: I also don't agree to switching to Michelin to try and turn the tables. As much as this sports maybe about having the best equipment, it is also about partnerships, preferably long lasting ones. If Michelin has made quantum leaps in performance, it is time for Bridgestone to wake up, NOT time to switch suppliers for Ferrari. I also don't think that the 2003GA is actually SLOWER that the F2002. I value Ross Brawn and the rest of the decision makers high enough to not be so stupid as to enter a car that is actually slower than what they have sitting around in the garage. Major "problem" is that in recent years, Ferrari made HUGE steps in car development (along with their partners) which gave them the power to be the absolute dominant force in the game (combined with what is probably the best driver in teh world... grrrrrrrrrrrr.......). This year, "the others" and their partners have made even bigger steps and caught up with Ferrari, also thanks to increased budgets (ferrari always spent the most but is now almost on par with Williams I believe). This doesn't make the 2003GA a slower car than the F2002, it is simply not as far ahead (if ahead at all) of the rest this year as the F2002 was last year. Jack | ||
| Kevin S. (Wolfgang5150)
New member Username: Wolfgang5150 Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2003 |
Monza - Time for some home cooking! This is just what the Boys in red need. Seriously, everyone knew that Budapest was going to be a f(&ing waste of time for Bridgestone runners. Just look at the third sector times for both RB & MS. They had to back off the throttle or else risk losing it altogether. Ferrari had basically the same speed down the front straight, so the engine/aero package is pretty equal to BMW/Mercedes. Not enough grip means you can't apply full throttle. I'm sure that Monty has layed down the law with Bridgestone and that they will be testing some seriously new compounds for Monza/Indy/Suzuka. Combined with a new aero package, I think they will be able to counter the Michelin attack. By the way, they are testing FOUR cars this week - that's unheard of. Kevin S. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1282 Registered: 1-2002 |
ps: It's also possible that there's some beta testing being done on rubens car, hence the failure. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1281 Registered: 1-2002 |
Mike B: if you've ever done any competative driving, you'll understand the annoying frustration of being beaten out by someone else on account of better equipment. Racing is about having the best equipment possible (including the driver, who's part of the chassis, or should be), and tires are a huge part. I also believe the '03 car is down on power. I just doesn't pull down the straights, and the mechanical and cornering speeds aren't there either (that's either a tire problem, poor setup, or a set of peculiarly small balls behind the wheel); thing is, if you haven't got the power to win, you've gotta have the momentum to win (read: you don't brake as much), but if the feels ragged (like you'll pitch it into a wall if you push it to gain that momentum) then you're gonna go slow , and collect points. I think ferrari should survey their options, but it's obvious that the big boys have more power then they do, and the renault has better grip (i.e. exit speed), and better cornering (i.e. overall speed) | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 240 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mike B: Why is that nuts? The fact is that Michelin has clearly raised its game and has left Bridgestone in the dust. The fact is that Ferrari can and should go with the best technical partners available and unless Bridgestone turns things around while by some miracle Michelin stays stagnant, it is game over IMHO. I am not a racer but having just heard Mr Baldi, one of the world's best drivers, tell me that the Michelins are making that much difference I tend to agree. Regards, Mark | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1935 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mike, look at the trend in the last few races. Ferrari stood still and Williams and Mc Laren won. Continue the trend and you'll know who will win the championship. I agree, that MS is the best of the three drivers, but if your car doesn't go any faster... | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 325 Registered: 12-2002 |
How quickly attitudes change. Do some of you really think Ferrari needs to talk to Michelin next year? All of last year and the first 1/2 of this year, everyone was talking about how closely Ferrari and Bridgestone work together and how the combination was unbeatable. Now Michelin tops the Bridgestone and everyone wants Ferrari to jump to Michelin? Thats nuts, IMO. I think Ferrari ought to work on their package. I don't think they can do too much about it this year, because it's clear that they would have to change the car significantly. Some are suggesting "it's over" for this year - how can anyone seriously think it's over? There are 3 people running for the WC. There are 3 races left. If any of the three has a DNF in any of the races, it's a 2 horse race. MS is winning - he has more wins I believe than anyone else. If MS's record was of any other driver, people would be praising him - but since it's MS, everyone expects a 100% win record. MS is the best driver by far out there - not sure why he seems to be lagging RB a lot though. But there are 3 races left and anything can happen. Of the three drivers, I would say MS has the best change. JPM is a hothead - look how he spun in the last race even! JPM is likely to go off track, crash in qualifying trying to get pole, or crash out of the race. Same with Raikkonen - he's another hothead. Statistically MS has the best chance to win - and I think he will do exactly that. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 239 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think much of what we are seeing is very much tire related. I had another nice chat with Mauro Baldi this morning and we discussed the situation. He really feels that Michelin, given its history of success in F1, vast experience ,is usually unbeatable when they are focused. I am no expert but I think he is right. He was pointing out how crucial mechanical grip is especially at a place like Hungary. Hence, Michelin ate Bridgestone's lunch. I just hope Ferrari starts looking seriously at Michelin for next year. By the way, don't be surprised to see what is essentially an Enzo rebadged as a Maserati in Grand Am OR ALMS in the latter half of 2004! Regards, Mark Mark | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1934 Registered: 10-2002 |
The wake up call for Ferrari should be to stop being loyal to Bridgestone and start talking to Michelin for 2004. Good news is that they're planning on coming out with a stronger engine for Monza. | ||
| Jamil Jamal (Jameel)
Junior Member Username: Jameel Post Number: 110 Registered: 9-2002 |
Who would have thought at the beginning of the season MS would be getting lapped by Alonso in a Renault. Wow that must be a wake up call for Ferrari. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 308 Registered: 7-2001 |
Well, say what you want but Id say the old car was the car they should be driving now! Mclaren is not out of it and they are driving LAST YEARS CAR, although it has been improved. The true measure of how bad this year is for Ferrari is the fact that Mclaren is beating them with last years car and how BMW is really showing them who has the better NEW CAR. The 03 GA is a myth as far as reliability and performance. I wonder if an improved 2002 would be the better bet tires not withstanding. Too much blame is being put on the tires. The car seems down on power. Rubens is clearly beating MS at every race now and that may allude to MS having some of his own issues with the team and maybe some depression from the loss of his mother as well. He has been champion and I wonder if this year just isnt his due to a set of circumstances. I hope 3 weeks off and some testing are going to help Italy. At least its a race this year and not a blow out like last years championship. Id rather see Kimi win it if not MS. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 905 Registered: 11-2002 |
There is no doubt in my mind that MS has given up. This is very sad. I have always admired his never give up attitude, but because the car and tyre package is so bad ... he has been forced to just try and scrape in for points. This is not how MS operates, and has taken the edge of his driving. Imagine what it feels like starting a race, knowing the best you can do is hope for 1 point (I guess MS now knows what it is like driving for Minardi ) ... and watch your competitors scream away into the distance! Yes MS used to throw the car around and perform miracles, but know he has to save the car and ensure he gets any points ... we can thank the stupid rule changes for this!!!  !!!! I just hope MS can keep motivated for next year, as unless they find a full second RACE pace, it is all over this year. Pete ps: Andreas, yes I am aware that the F1 team is multi-cultural, but its parent company is still Italian ... don't get me wrong I would not have it any other way . Without the passion of the Italians motorracing would be as exciting as lawn bowls | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1930 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jack Habits, I disagree with you over Michael. Like him or not, but he is the best there is. He will be succeeded by Raikkonen and Alonso, but right now he is the best. I'm not saying that as a blind Schumi fan, I'm not (I'm an Irvine fan, but that's besides the point), it is just my honest opinion, that looking at it as neutrally as I can, the man is the best racer overall. Rikky, yes we had 4 wins, but I believe (just from leaking memory) not all with the new car, one (Imola I believe) with the old one. Williams looked like a dog, but once they sorted out the rear end of the car, it was perfect and now it kicks ass. The engine was always perfect (remember when BMW threatened to quit after the first lack luster results at the beginning of the season?). So is it the driver? True, Rubens outqualified Michael and would probably have outdriven him today. But he is in a different game, he is not walking on thin ice for the WC. With the current points system you cannot afford to have a DNF and with the current qualifying system you cannot afford to have a spin or an out. Case in point: Raikkonen in Spain. That ultimately cost him the race. So the name of the game is to play it safe. Aside from the fact, that we don't know what fuel strategies Ferrari (or anybody else) had for that matter. Having said all that, it was still puzzling to watch Michael drive home that one freakin point. I expected him to be more aggressive than this if all there is to loose is one point. But maybe it just wasn't in the car. Yes, his brother looked stellar in comparison, but again that guy has nothing to loose. Neither did Montoya just a few races back and he risked everything and won everything. But now that he is in the WC game, he too drove very conservatively. Anthony, as (almost) always I'm with you bud: Yup, if Ferrari doesn't win it this season (and I think they won't), then with Michael in the team, they will make extra sure they will get it next year. After all Michael wants that ultra exclusive club ticket of the six time champion. THEN he can retire. And sadly probably the rest of Ferrari as well... | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 277 Registered: 5-2002 |
The car is definitely not up to par but what about Michael's driving? The last 3-4 races or so he has been outqualified by Rubens... He should easily be able to outpace his teammate, car problems or not. Also, is it really possible for the Williams to have improved THAT much from the beginning of the year? We know the Ferrari has speed, it has won 4 races this year... so what now? Is it the tires, circuits, or dare I say driver? Michael is without a doubt the best, but he certainly does not look that way right now. | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member Username: Aventino Post Number: 60 Registered: 6-2003 |
Maybe if there was only one tyre brand? | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 918 Registered: 4-2003 |
Am I mistaken of was that Schummi's first "blue flag" EVER? A sad day for Ferrari especially since Rubens his accident cause is still unsolved, as far as I know, but I hope that it brings all the schummi worshippers a bit back to earth. When he was winning countless races in a row, it was all down to "his driving skill" but now that he doesn't have the best car in the field and ends up midfield it's all of a sudden tires, bad car etc..... Snuggle.... :-D Jack (NOT a schummi fan!) | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Junior Member Username: Wax Post Number: 149 Registered: 7-2003 |
I missed HGP. Q: Why did MS pit at lap 50? Play-by-play http://www.fia.com/FreePress/news4.htm | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 366 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pete, you are wrong about Ferrari. You talk as though it is an Italian team. It hasn't been for a few years. It has kept the passion (believe me those guys are desperate to win!) but it has lost the politics and other time/energy wasting elements that dogged it in the past. I still think Michael will win. If he doesn't then next year is going to be even greater than this year cos Michael will make sure that he kick's ass! Michael does not think like normal people. He does not know when he is beaten and he will never ever give up. Alonso, Montoya, Raikkonen etc are all great and they are the future of F1, but they are not Michael. The best thing about Michael is the absolute and complete devotion that he has instilled in the team. I hate to think what will happen when he leaves. There are many great people there, at all levels, who are only there for Michael. My wife had dinner with a few of the guys on Friday night and they were all talking about their plans after Michael had left. They would feel like they were betraying the team and Michael by leaving while he was still there. Sorry for going on so much. If you want to be angry, send your anger to Japan and Bridgestone HQ, not Italia! | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 904 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andreas, I am just so frustrated ... Pete | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 233 Registered: 5-2003 |
Andreas; Oh i dont take them too seriously. Plus the last time one of them gave myself crap at work, he had trouble getting his BMW to start up. HMMMM i wonder how that happened!!! LOL Seriously The way i look at it is that they are just green with envy, due to the fact that i have had to chance to drive and work on Ferrari's and they have not even had the chance to sit in one much less go for a ride. And i agree with you that once you build both the chassis and engine then you are truly a F1 constructor. Rob | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1927 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh Rob as far as your Bimmer friends go: How many years has BMW been active in F1? And secondly, where is the BMW or Mercedes F1 car? It is a lot easier to just focus on the engine and leave the chassis to some competent Brits. As far as I'm concerned, people with Renaults and Jaguars can tease me today. That's acceptable, but no Bimmers or Daimlers. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 232 Registered: 5-2003 |
with all of the adjustability and computer simulations of the suspension systems it would not be as difficult as it would seem. A few changes to caster, camber and control arm length can compensate for the different shapes and construction between Michelin and Bridgestone. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1926 Registered: 10-2002 |
Unfortunately it ain't that simple, your car needs to be built to suit the Michelins. That's why I'm saying, forget this season and switch now and build the 04 car for Bibendum. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 230 Registered: 5-2003 |
Andreas; I say todt should get Michelins for the rest of the season! Put the entire grid on Michelins and then we can see whos car is truly the best. Rob | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1924 Registered: 10-2002 |
No, that's invisible. Did I miss something or was there even a Ferrari in that race? The really pathetic thing is, that the 8th grid position is actually where Ferrari stands today. Schumi ends 8th, just as he started. It is one thing if you end up 8th because you spun or something, but if you end up there because that is all the car (or better tires) gives you, well major bummer. I said it before and I say it again: Alonso, FUTURE WORLDCHAMPION PSK, I think you're being a bit too harsh on Ferrari. The car isn't as superior as expected, but it is not crap. After all Schumi was the first non Michelin driver. However that is little consolation. Todt should try to get Michelin tires for next year. And yes, they can bag this season, no hope left. Especially in Monza the Williams will drive circles around the rest of the field. Unless something drastic happens, JPM will take over the lead in Italy. How painfull will that be for us Tifosi...And I think he won't give up the lead till the last lap in Suzuka. Kimi got lucky today, don't think the Mercedes is powerful enough for Monza and the Mc Laren good enough for Suzuka. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 219 Registered: 5-2003 |
AHHHHHHH My phone has been ringing off the hook with my Bimmer loving coworkers rubbing it in. I honestly was hoping that the start was a sign of change in the team and car. But alast it was not to be. Between Rubens left rear suspension being sawed off and Michael stalling comming into the pit box and looking bad on the track. When will it end. Maybe it will be best if Jean todt, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne just concede the championship this year stop development of the 2003-GA and focus on 2004. Ferrari will have to have a new car running at the start of next season if they even have a glimer of hope to win. Rob Now pulling out the flak shield for this one!!!! | ||
| John Christopher (Johncj8989)
New member Username: Johncj8989 Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thats invinsible...... | ||
| John Christopher (Johncj8989)
New member Username: Johncj8989 Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2003 |
Zero momentum for Shumi and Ferrari at this point. Awhile back I thought maybe they were sandbagging but now I think it's pretty much over and Williams is going to run away with the whole thing. I thought this new car was supposed to be invinsable? | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 295 Registered: 1-2003 |
5 hours to some answers. Yipes, I need sleep but only 5 hours??????????????????? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 900 Registered: 11-2002 |
This year is all over for Ferrari. Even the team is despondent now (read F1-live.com's post qualifying quotes, Brawn, etc.). In the end the car, for whatever reason, is a piece of sh!t. Infact if Ferrari had middle of the road drivers they would be battling with Minardi and Jordon for qualifying positions. Personally the team need the biggest kick up the arse I have ever seen ... just unbelievable how stupid the Italians can be when it comes to car design (drum brakes for so long that Museums were close to buying new Ferraris as exhibitions, beam axles for way too long (including Alfa Romeo), wire wheels, the same basic engine just about for 20 years (Ferrari) and 40 something for Alfa Romeo). What is wrong with that country (Italy) where looking at oneself and finding improvement and change is so difficult that they keep ending up in embarrassing situations like this. The English have shown the world how to go racing, and they make absolutely crap road cars, but they do understand that you cannot stand still in motorracing, and that last years design warmed over is NOT going to continue winning for 20 years, let alone 2 years. Stop trying to float the company, stop trying to make Ferrari the worlds biggest brand, stop wanking around and get back in the design room and ensure next years race cars is going to kick arse ... cause I do not want to bring my near 2 year old son up talking about how Ferrari USED to be good ... like I had to endure for 21 years of my life. What an embarrassment for Agnelli , no respect whatsoever (ie. name of this piece of sh!t that the Ferrari call an F1 car). I really feel for Michael Schumacher because he is looking like a dickhead to all the new to F1 idiots that think Ferrari have always had the all conquering car. The guy deserved to bag his 6th Championship and retire in style ... now what is he going to do? Retire with his tail between his legs?, move to another team? ... has he got the energy left to remotivate the team again? I love the passion Italians bring to motorsport, but I wish that passion did not actually get in the way of actually winning! Pete | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 364 Registered: 11-2002 |
I actually put five pounds on Alonso winning this race a week ago! If he wins I get 195! Couldn't believe qualifying. I knew the Ferrari's would struggle, but I expected the Williams to be 1-2. Looks like there is a large variety of strategies going on. The race is quite hard to call. I'd honestly be surprised (and very pleased) if Alonso wins. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 937 Registered: 8-2001 |
When you lose the rear wing there is nothing you can do except wait for the car to slow down. With a ground effects car that has wings both front and rear losing either is disasterous. Firman knew what happened but couldn't do a thing about it. If you hit the brakes in this situation you lock up the front wheels and the rear comes around with violent ferocity. Turn the wheel even a minute bit with no downforce on the back does the same thing. You really can't do anything except stay on the pavement in a straight line for as long as you can. As for Sunday's race I can see Michael walking up to brother Ralph and saying....." Mind repeating that trick from Hockenheim at the first corner???" Seriously I think Schumacher will do ok. Montoya can't pull away from him and will be stuck in traffic all day as well. Best hope is for a superior pit stop strategy. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 PS: Andreas did you get my email? Anthony is getting us 83-85, 87, 89, and 92 F1 Reviews from Richard. I hope to have them in a week or so. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 217 Registered: 5-2003 |
Andreas; I agree with your view that you would have felt the car unload and get tail happy once the wing broke. Unless the undertray is producing more suction that i belive it to be. I would think that hitting the brakes to be the last thing you would want to do in that situation since that would make the back end want to pass the front end due to the lack of down force. To myself i would think that to slow down gradualy would be the best choice. But that is just my opinion since there is no way i could fit my foot much less my fat butt into an F1 car. Rob | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1923 Registered: 10-2002 |
Firman's crash looked horrible. In a non carbon fibre chassis he'd be dead. What surprised me was, that he seemed not to react at all to the loss of his rear wing. He appeared to keep going for the longest time. I would assume you feel that immediately when you loose all the pressure on your rear wheels and that's when I'd be hitting the brakes. And having seen similar accidents (Johnny Herbert e.g.) they normally reacted immediately. So maybe part of his learning curve? Of course from the comfort of my armchair things look a lot different... | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 214 Registered: 5-2003 |
The worse part of this race is the fact that the track is so dirty off line. Just watching the F3000 race every time someone went off line to make a pass it looked like Phoenix AZ with an up comming thunder storm. Can you belive Firmans parctice crash???? That was scary.. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1921 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oops, worse yet: Make that 8th for Michael. Yikes! As Enzo said in 82 after Pironi's crash: "Ciao Mondiale." | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1920 Registered: 10-2002 |
Alonso, FUTURE WORLDCHAMPION, on pole! Rubens beat Michael, but it looks as if that might have been a strategic move with less fuel. Michael on what 7th or so position. Gruesome. Worse yet, he is about a second down on pole. Only silver lining is, that Montoya didn't make it too much forward either, but still he was a lot faster than Michael. And the new F3000 kid on the block, Baumgartner not even dead last, pretty cool. It'll be interesting, but I'm afraid it won't be a day for us Tifosi. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 402 Registered: 2-2003 |
Tires, tires, tires....This is incredible. Jiminey crickets! - look at the Michelin domination of the grid. I know Bridgestone has to really be under the gun right now. I remember Goodyear pulled out before Bridgestone started eclipsing them. It must be a difficult business decision to stay in F1 for a tire manufacturer. No matter who WC, or CC is, the biggest winner this season is Bibendum. Just when I was thinking of replacing my personal Bridgestones with Michelins.... | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 288 Registered: 1-2003 |
This is getting good. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1918 Registered: 10-2002 |
1st qualifying session, results: 1) Trulli 2) Ralf 3) Webber 4) DC 5) Rubens ... 8) Montoya 9) Schumacher ... 12) Kimi Doesn't look to promising, but then again Michael had to go out first on to the dirty track. Let's hope for tomorrow. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 173 Registered: 5-2003 |
We can only hope that durring the past few weeks that Ferrari has been working hard on finding a way to get off the starting line quicker. Even if they do score the front row at the start the way it has been going when the lights go out it has been a disaster. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 887 Registered: 8-2001 |
If the heat wave currently buzzing through Europe doesn't lift by qualifying Ferrari is toast. No way they can beat the Michelin shod Williams at Hungary if the temps stay up. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Junior Member Username: Wax Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2003 |
After Montoya's miserable first 1/3 this season - who knew he'd be breathing down MS's neck after such consistency in the middle stretch... If MS finishes one spot behind Montoya in the next 4 races... chalk one up for the amazing Williams team. If MS gets out of the rut, and in a big way, he'll get back the respect he lost over the last few races. Even then, if it goes down to the wire in Japan, MS simply can't have a repeat of '97 if he wants to be the King with 6 Crowns. The Racing Fans section is going to get hot, hot, hotter as the season comes to a close. | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 282 Registered: 1-2003 |
Has this past week been a benefit to Ferrari? The Hungarain G. P. is so important the this year. | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 274 Registered: 1-2003 |
This is a horse race with only four to go. |