| Author | Message | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1040 Registered: 4-2002 |
I believe that the pneumatic valve trains run on compressed (3000 PSI) nitrogen. So anyone running an F1 engine, will have to have nitrogen hanging around. Adding a low pressure regulator and an air hose is pure simplicity. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 809 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes, this is true. Take out all the water, no problems with erratic pressure gains as the moisture changes state from liquid to gas. Most racers do use nitrogen cylinders, as do I, for cost and convenience. | ||
| Paul Wehmer (Pwehmer)
Junior Member Username: Pwehmer Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2002 |
It's the water in the air that causes a larger pressure change in regards to temperture increase. So as long as the air is dry it doesn't matter if it is pure nitrogen or typical 80%N2/20%O2 air. Nitrogen is used in racing since it is cheap and water free. But with use of desicant dryer you can dry regular compressed air to nearly water free status. I speculate that F1 teams can't ship cylinders of compressed gas easily so they use desicant systems. | ||
| N'din (Abangdin)
Junior Member Username: Abangdin Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2003 |
I can't believe that Bridgestone uses normal dry air. Isn't Nitrogen the universal air for racing tyres ? | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 307 Registered: 5-2003 |
Pete; I do not belive that the bleed valves are allowed in F1. I do know that they do have pressure monitoring transmitters in each wheel that they can watch via the telemetry if a tire is gaining or losing pressure and make the needed adjustment at the next stop, or call for a pit stop. Rob | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 929 Registered: 11-2002 |
Now it all makes sense  , thanks for the explanation all. Are F1 allowed to use bleed off valves that you set to a pressure and the valve lets air out if the pressure goes too high. Aussie v8 er, Supercars used to use these ... but they have been banned. Pete | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 305 Registered: 5-2003 |
I belive that Goodyear produced a unit that would take normal air and thru a series of filtration and passing thru membranes that would dry out the air to where it would be very close to nitrogen in term of lack of moisture. They mainly did this to allow teams not to have to haul nitrogen bottles to all of the races or source them localy at the event. It could be that Ferrari is using this device still to this day. The pressure increase with this dry air is similar to using nitrogen in the tires. I have a feeling that is what they are talking about here as regular atmospheric air would cause inconsistant tire pressure gains. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1359 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hmmm... air, by defenition of composition, is mostly nitrogen (~ 80%). N2, or bimolecular nitrogen, is extracted from "common air" by collection via liquification under high pressure. And used in this application, as well as other commercial uses (i.e., cooling, as an inert storage gas , storing labile compounds, etc.). The extraction implicates removal of trace origins of water vapor, oxygen, etc. the use of the phrase "normal air," as it's mostly nitrogen anyway, is a misnomoer, scientifically; further, N2 is far less reactive v. 02 (atmospheric 1/2 life of N2 = 7yrs; 02 = 10days), and , N2, is not readily combustible (see above, per the relative 1/2 lives). I hope this clears the air. hubert - who's not a chemist, but plays one on TV. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 928 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rick,
Very interesting as nitrogen is far superior ... does anybody know if this is a F1 rule??? Pete | ||
| rick ramage (720)
New member Username: 720 Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2003 |
Bridgestone press release TYRE PRESSURE Tyre pressure affects friction and therefore the performance of the tyres. Pressure is determined by the characteristics of the tyre, weight of vehicle and circuit layout. Pressure affects both grip and consistency of the tyre. Pressure should be at a minimum to get the maximum area of rubber on the ground, but high enough to minimise heat generation by tyre deformation and keep the tyre bead seated on the rim. Generation of heat raises tyre pressure so the pressure is set at a cold pressure lower than the ideal required. Bridgestone inflates its F1 tyres with normal air with any traces of water extracted. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 927 Registered: 11-2002 |
All top racing teams use nitrogen unless they are not allowed to. I even know of 100cc gokart racers that use nitrogen, so if Bridgestone aren't and they can ... then they s**k! Pete | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2775 Registered: 1-2002 |
Perhaps Michelin uses French air. Very hot and fills all available space with itself, but in the end can't support any weight with its own rhetoric...and surrenders all ability to carry its own weight at the first sign of a curb--or a German.     | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 303 Registered: 5-2003 |
Rick; not 100% sure on what they use but more than likely they are using nitrogen instead of Dry air as what Ferrari is using. Rob | ||
| rick ramage (720)
New member Username: 720 Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2003 |
i read that bridgestone inflates their F1 tires with "normal air with water extracted" when the tires are cold. they inflate them to pressure lower than what they have calculated to be the desired pressure since the pressure will increase as the tire heats up. i *think* i read some where recently that michelin does not use "normal air" to inflate their tires. i'm curious what they use and if there is any FIA regulations on this topic? |