| Author |
Message |
James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member
Username: Aventino
Post Number: 119
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 5:20 pm: | |
Have to agree with Jon P. And I wouldn't want to see him (JV not Jon P.) in a Ferrari or Mclaren as there are a lot of other drivers out there more deserving |
A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member
Username: Senna1994
Post Number: 150
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 12:56 pm: | |
I am with Pete on this one. |
Mark Langfield (Ferrari_co_uk)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrari_co_uk
Post Number: 97
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 3:41 am: | |
CART Champion, Indy 500 winner, F1 World Champion in second year. I think this proves his talent. Saying he was lucky is like saying MS is lucky to have won 5, soon to be 6, World championships!
Aside from the money (!) I think it was quite a gutsy thing to move from Williams to a brand new team in BAR. The easy thing would have been to stay at Williams but at the time they had customer (ex Renault) engines and were rapidly falling from grace, compared to the previous year. Then once he was there how long do you keep faith with the project? If his only option for 2001 was Renault/Benetton why move? They (Renault) were far from the competitive proposition that they are today.
I think saying that his time at BAR shows that he can't develop a car is a bit unfair. Starting a brand new F1 team is no easy task! When was the last time a team other than the 'big four' regularly made into the winners circle, apart from Jordan’s four wins (which took nine years to get it's first) The teams chief designer Malcolm Oastler, by no means a bad designer had never headed a F1 design before.
His early career may not have been much to look at but then he was starting from scratch, i.e. no Karting background. It is very difficult to compete from the start against other guys who have ten/fifteen years racing experience behind them, many at World Championship level. Once he moved to Europe and then Japan he got the 'schooling' he needed. Interestingly, three of the top four drives in '96 were held by drivers who had no karting experience (Hill, Villeneuve and Irvine).
I believe Jacques is a big occasion driver (much like Mansell, who's early career was by no means stella) His overtaking move at Jerez '97 was awesome and races don't come much bigger than that! If he was in a top drive next year I think it would be a totally different driver we would see compared to this year.
Best
Mark |
Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member
Username: Amenasce
Post Number: 1459
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 1:44 am: | |
i meant without JV ! Doh ! |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 1086
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 11:54 pm: | |
I’ve only been watching F1 for about 4 seasons now, so I never got to witness JV’s greatness in the late nineties.
Jamil,
I never got to witness his greatness either during the 90's (and I watched him his entire career coming up from Formula Atlantics).
I think he went to BAR to try and do a MS (ie. moving to impotent Ferrari and turning them into a great team).
I don't think that was his motivation. JV has never been a hard worker or a team player. Even while at Williams he hated testing and was know as being the most difficult person for PR and media events. He was constantly missing PR events and always complaining to Frank Williams that his job was to drive the car and Frank's job was to kiss all the sponsor's asses.
JV is not a person who is good at working on relationships. His next to last girlfriend finally left him because she claimed he spent 12 hours a day on his Playstation instead of doing things with her. I don't think JV is a man of hard work.
Anyone who gets to F1 has some amount of talent especially if they stick around for a while but his greatness was overblown. He did well in CART when other teams were in disarray, he did well in F1 with a car that was much better than the next best car on the grid.
Like D.Hill he had some amount of talent but also an enourmous amount of lcuk at being in the right place at the right time. Very similar to Hill. Had Schumacher been at Bennetton when Hill finally won his Championship he likely wouldn't have won it in the first place, same with JV.
It took MS some time to develop and build the Ferrari F1 cars to their full potential and this allowed JV and Hill their titles.
I for one won't be sorry to see him go. I was a huge fan of his father's but JV got to where he is because of who his father was. JV did have some amount of talent but hundreds of other people who came up through the SCCA formula ranks had just as much talent, but a lot less luck and money.
I think JV being who he is he will come back to CART and possible do well there, and if not we'll just hear him complain about how the car, the team, and the series sucks (CART)....just like in F1.
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
1995 F355 Challenge #23
www.flatoutracing.net |
Robert Faber (F129b)
Junior Member
Username: F129b
Post Number: 64
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 10:34 pm: | |
I cant see Jacques challlenging in one of the "big four" teams cars. I used to really pull for him alot, but I think he ultimately was spoiled by his early success in CART, INDY500, and his '97 WC. Money does that to some. He turned into a real underperforming whiner with Panis & Button consistently outdriving him. THe main reason Villeneuve didn't take a Ferrari ride in '98 was that he hated Schumacher and knew he might have to play second fiddle. Sure he also wanted big $$$ (30m??) that BAR offered. |
MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Member
Username: Kiyoharu
Post Number: 330
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 8:48 pm: | |
All the years at BAR only show that he can drive a car, but can't develop one.
When he came to F1 in 1996, he had the great Williams chassis and the even greater Renault engine underneath it. Damon Hill had developed the car well enough that it'll simply win every race it enters.
If Jacques were to switch to McLaren or Williams or even Ferrari right now, he'd immediately challenge for the championship. The cars there are at least fully developed, it wouldn't be hard to get consistent podiums or a win or three to win the drivers title.
Case in point, former Minardi driver and current Williams test driver Marc Gene. Replaced Ralf Schumacher for one race, and immediately was competetive, gaining valuable points that he could only have dreamed of gaining while he was stuck with the uncompetetive Minardi he drove 4 years earlier.
Anyway, I hope Jacques will regain his motivation, he keeps saying that he wants to do Le Mans, I hope he does and be among the few people who won the big three races (Le Mans, Indy 500 and the F1 GP of your choice). Too bad he never won Monaco, now that's a cool win to add to your resume. |
PSk (Psk)
Member
Username: Psk
Post Number: 980
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 6:39 pm: | |
I think he went to BAR to try and do a MS (ie. moving to impotent Ferrari and turning them into a great team). In the end JV has simply shown the world that he cannot motivate others ... and that he needs a really, really good team to actually motivate him.
It is a shame that he got his undeserved WC. Hill was far more deserving, even though he cannot drive.
Pete
ps: His father would be ashamed! |
A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member
Username: Senna1994
Post Number: 149
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 5:26 pm: | |
As a Gilles Villeneuve Fanatic, I agree that the boy was too greedy to leave Williams for BAR. On top of it he could have gone to Renault in 2001 and turned it down. Frankly I couldn't care less if he is around in 2004. He is a smug, arrogant, little A-Hole anyway. |
Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member
Username: Amenasce
Post Number: 1455
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 4:45 pm: | |
1 : JV still has what it takes to be fast but his car isnt and he lost his motivation. However im sure it would come back if he gets a top team drive.
2 : He moved to Bar because Craig Pollock his manager decided to run his own team and that wouldnt be possible with JV ( JV = sponsors ! ) .
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Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 1479
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 3:53 pm: | |
>>1. Would JV be competitive in a McLaren, Williams’ or Ferrari as he was in 1996/1997?<<
Maybe. But, he'd have to pull his lodged foot out of his mouth, shut up and drive.
>>2. Why did he decide to move to BAR? Wasn’t Ferrari or McLaren offering him a seat after he won the championship?<<
Money, and lots of it. So much in fact , that his salery is hampering the development of the cars. Simple, he's greedy.
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Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 2385
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 2:47 pm: | |
ad 1)
Probably not, it looks as if he lost some of his motivation.
ad 2)
Because his personal manager and friend Pollock was team manager there. |
Jamil Jamal (Jameel)
Junior Member
Username: Jameel
Post Number: 135
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 2:40 pm: | |
I know it’s off-topic, I apologize.
I’ve only been watching F1 for about 4 seasons now, so I never got to witness JV’s greatness in the late nineties. I’ve got a 2 fold question:
1. Would JV be competitive in a McLaren, Williams’ or Ferrari as he was in 1996/1997?
2. Why did he decide to move to BAR? Wasn’t Ferrari or McLaren offering him a seat after he won the championship?
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