| Author | Message | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 253 Registered: 4-2003 |
Amar, no problem, looking forward to it. Best, Jack | ||
| Amar Inam (Amar360)
Junior Member Username: Amar360 Post Number: 189 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jack, I will get in touch sometime in May as soon as we finalise our days off work and travel days for Nurburgring. Speak with you soon... Regards, Amar | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 250 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Amar, You would be most welcome in June. Could you please email me directly at [email protected] so that we can make the necessary arrangements? Thanks & regards, Jack | ||
| Amar Inam (Amar360)
Junior Member Username: Amar360 Post Number: 184 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hello Jack, I've been away and so a bit late responding to this. I live in London and at present don't expect to be anywhere near The Hague until June at the earliest, for instance on the way to or back from our Nurburgring meet. If it's still possible then, I may be interested in getting to your test bed. Let me know if the timing could be okay and let's speak closer to the time, okay? Greetings from London, Amar | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Mark, There are tons of reasons but the main one is that most manufacturers, including Ferrari, build their cars to as general specifications as possible as every different version costs money in the production process. That means as much as that they tune the engines to the toughest emission regulations, lowest grade gasoline etc. that they will encounter in the markets where the car is being sold. Per definition this means that an engine is not tuned to the max. For this very same reason the brand new 575M delivers "only" 515 HP from 5,748 cc displacement, which is 89.6 HP/Liter where for example the 360 develops 111.5 HP/Liter. Every engine can be perfected and tuned to give better performance. Same principle applies to polishing and enlarging inlet tracts, higher capacity airfilters, differently timed camshafts, bolting on turbos, flee-flowing exhausts etc. So, it is basically a matter of economics; "everything" is possible when building and designing an engine but not all possibilities are exploited. With chiptuning you take advance of highly specialized technicians that put all their knowledge and available technology into their product and which comes at a very reasonable price, especially when comparing "$/HP gain" prices with bolt-on goodies like turbos and compressors. But... sometimes the ways of manufacturers are completely unexplicable... A couple of months ago we were "doing" an Alfa Romeo 2.5L V6 24V, a VERY nice and, even in stock-shape, powerful and smooth engine... The same engine is also produced in 3.0L version. We found out that the inlet runners are interchangeable between the 2.5 and 3.0 but that the 3.0 version has a larger diameter... We swapped the stock 2.5L runners for the stock 3.0L version and found an instant gain of almost 20 HP! Total cost of conversion: Euro 250.00 excl. labour. Why Alfa doesn't put these 3.0 runners on? Beats me... Jack | ||
| Mark Pautz (Malfark)
Junior Member Username: Malfark Post Number: 206 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hey Jack, If this is really an "improvement", why doesn't Ferrari chip-tune their car's themselves? It seems it would be to their own benefit! Cheers, MARK | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 145 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ton, It is both in the numbers and in the feel. I'll give two examples: Alfa Romeo 155 2.5 V6 Increase in top HP from 161 to 177 = +10% The biggest increase in torque is at 3,500 RPM: 205 NM --> 225 NM = 10% Top torque is now 230 NM instead of 212 but is reached at 4,500 RPM instead of at 5,000 RPM. The latter being the biggest gain: higher torque at lower RPM. THAT is what you actually feel when driving the car. The story is somewhat different for a turbo engine: Alfa Romeo 155 2.0 16V Q4 Turbo Normally max HP is 190 at 6,000 RPM. With our chip max HP is 235 HP but it reaches that already at a low 5,000 RPM and maintains that output up to some 5,800 RPM. That gives an increase of over 23% and at 1,000 RPM LESS... A HUGE difference and again something that you defenitely feel when driving the car. The torque on that same engine is as follows: Normally peaks at 290 NM between 2,500 and 3,000 RPM after which the curve drops quite dramatically. With our chip it peaks in the same RPM range but with 345 NM (+ 18.9%) but maintains that peak torque almost all the way through to 5,000 RPM (only dropping slightly from 345 to 330 between 3,000 and 5,000 RPM). Again, VERY noticeable when driving the car. To visualize it better, this is the torque curve graph of that engine, the red line being our chip, black being standard.  What the results on the various Ferrari engines will be is still unknown as we need to get them on the rolling road, hence the call for owners to step forward. Jack | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
Member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 467 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jack, So what is the gain in torque? Or is it more the feel then the numbers? Ton | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 143 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Ton, The long term effects for the engine are only positive (when done right of course, which we do) as the same engine will have to work less hard to give the same power / torque. As I mentioned in the "550 ECU Tuning" thread, don't expect to turn your car into an instant missile but there are tremendous gaines to be had in the field of driveability and the way that the car responds to the throttle etc. Biggest "increase" is usually in the torque curve which gets much smoother and the torque usually sets in earlier too. We already analyzed the factory mapping on the 348, 355 and F40 and from what we can tell, there is "a lot of room for improvement". All we need to do is get the cars on the rolling road. The F40 is a typical example of "early" chip programming where the mapping is very "smooth" as that was the idea behind the programming at that point in time - map it smoothly and the car will run smoothly - mostly caused by the simple fact that that technology was still pretty much in its infant stages at that time. Reality is however that you need to adjust the mapping to the engine characteristics which especially with turbo-ed engines such as the F40 can give a weird-looking map which doesn't look good on paper but works extremely well on the road. We started off in the Alfa Romeo world where owners are now lining up for them and Alfa owners often baby their cars as much as F-car owners do but I can understand that with the higher amount of money involved with Ferrari ownership, owners are more reluctant. There are several hundreds of cars with "Squadra inside" on the road now, in 27 different countries, and no failures related to the new programming have been reported so there is no need to be reluctant although I can understand it. I am currently reworking the website and there is a testimonials section (although I presonally never believe those "fake" testimonials, these come from real people including their email addresses so that you can contact them). Jack | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
Member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 466 Registered: 12-2002 |
hmmmm..... Jack, I haven't seen any dutch F355 owners on Fchat. I also think that Ferrari owners are reluctant to expose their babies to (in their eyes) semi-experimental works. Personally I am a little double in it too. What will the gain be? How far will this affect your engine in the long run? just my 0,02c Ton | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 140 Registered: 4-2003 |
BTW, highest priority is the F355. Any Dutch F355 owners here? Jack | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 127 Registered: 4-2003 |
So, we're looking for owners of "toys"... ;-) Jack | ||
| Bart Boonacker (Sharky666)
Member Username: Sharky666 Post Number: 316 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jack, it must be great doing this kind of work. I don't think that most Ferrari owners are willing to "lend" their car for chip tuning, since most owners are true fanatic ferraristi. IMO, the owners you need are the ones which have Ferrari's as a "toy". To bad I need to work tomorrow, would love to see how chiptuning takes place. | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Bart, should be feasible but nobody dared to step up yet.... BTW, we're doing an Alfa 156 2.4 JTD tomorrow (wednesday). Jack | ||
| Bart Boonacker (Sharky666)
Member Username: Sharky666 Post Number: 315 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jack, if any owners would put themselfs forward, would be possible for an outstander, like me, to come and watch ? The Hague is not that far away from me, and I'd love to see a project like this from up close. If so, and if any owner would allow any presence of outstanders, could you email me at : [email protected] ? I hope you'll get any submisions, must be great to be part of a project like this. Good luck with your quest | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 115 Registered: 4-2003 |
chiptuning.... After having tackled the whole range of Alfa Romeos, including the JTDs, Squadra Tuning has engaged in a new project, together with us: chiptuning for Ferraris. For this purpose we are seeking owners that will make their Ferrari (equipped with Motronic Motor Management System) available to us for one day for analyses purposes. Please note that your car will be put on a testbed (the best in Holland) and that the ECU will be opened in order to get to the chip (nothing dramatic about that but did want to mention it). Squadra has a MORE than excellent reputation in this field already and your car will be treated with all courtesy. Should we cause damage (which has never happened so far!), we will of course reimburse that and / or repair the damage in a way worthy of a Ferrari. You can of course be present during the whole "operation" and see the "Wizzard of Torque" at work AND you will get the the chip that is developed on your car for half the price. First come, first serve of course but we need to go through the whole range of Ferraris so if you act quick, you will get what will be the best and most responsible chip for your car at a snip of what high profile tuners are charging. If you own such a Ferrari (preferably mechanically in tip top shape and recently serviced) and are interested in participation in this project, please email us at [email protected] with as much detail on your car as possible. IT'S FUN! For owners not from The Netherlands: you are of course most welcome as well but you would have to travel to The Hague in The Netherlands as that is where our testbed is located which has all the necessary facilities. Jack |