| Author | Message | ||
| Matt S (F40only)
New member Username: F40only Post Number: 49 Registered: 3-2003 |
Awesome Pics!! | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 352 Registered: 11-2002 |
Gentlemen, congratulations on an excellent dyno day event, (golf clap). I love seeing the data! Bring it on! One thing to keep in mind, the Dynojet software uses the operator's estimate for driveline power absorption as a percent. This is keyed in by the operator, and uses this "fudge factor" along with the weather station information to produce the numbers and the graph. So, as impressive as 15% loss sounds, that number was keyed in, not determined experimentally. A savvy, experienced dyno operator knows he's got to produce good looking data. FWIW, here's some of my own gathered data: 409 HP (gross BHP) at the flywheel on a fresh F355 Challenge engine, yet these chassis dyno at the wheels around 315 - 320 hp. This is about 18% loss or more, which IME is closer to real world. What is totally valid is noting changes influenced by different exhaust systems or intakes, wheels (inertial mass), camshafts, carburetor tuning, etc. Especially if one does it back-to-back same day and notes weather changes, very repeatable data. I say keep it up, we'll continue to add to the database here on FC!  | ||
| Eric Hawley (Eric)
New member Username: Eric Post Number: 43 Registered: 8-2001 |
The gear selected makes no difference to the horsepower calculated by the dyno software. Using a higher gear meant a longer period of time was required to reach redline, thus giving possibly a little better detail, but when comparing the two runs done in my 330GTC in third and fourth, there was negligible difference in the horsepower or torque ratings computed by the dyno. As for the Tubis. Two of us have in the past run our stock '95 456s. Mine had stock exhaust, while the other had the Tubi exhaust. The difference in overall horsepower was 7HP (higher with Tubi) while the torque was also higher by 12 lb-ft in the Tubi equipped car. More interesting than overall values though, are the rpm ranges where those values were seen. In the stock exhaust car, peak HP came at 5,800 RPM, and then started declining as the RPM increased. Meanwhile the Tubi equipped car approached it's peak hp at about the same rpm, but then leveled out and kept that power for nearly 800 rpm, and when it started to decline, did so at a lower rate. So as I interpret this, the Tubi gets a marginal amount of horsepower increase, but more significantly, improves exhaust flow at the higher rpm range, giving an essentially broader range of higher HP. This would relate on the road to more push at the top end, and a cleaner sounding exhaust there as well. From recordings and observations of both cars at the track, it's clear the stock exhaust is indeed sounding a bit choked above 6,000 RPM, while the tubi equipped car is roaring strong. Here�s a plot of the torque and HP of the two 456s.  Hmm, getting a bit techy, and maybe should have been moved to the tech section, out of the Showroom section... | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 588 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dr. Shelbee- Thank you for the specs. By the looks of the ratios, I'd be inclinded to use 4th, and, for fun, try 5th as well. Regarding those two beauties in the rain, WELL DONE. I hope you're driving your car(s) (both your 360 and 550 are equally poised and stunning) if not daily, then as often as you can. I know I would be. regards, hubert | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 98 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hubert, Speaking of dirty black cars in the rain   | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2002 |
Here is the specification of the 550 Maranello Overall length 179.3 in Overall width 76.18 in Maximum height 50.27 in Wheelbase 98.43 in Front track 64.25 in Rear track 62.44 in Kerb weight 3726 lb Engine 12 cylinders in 65� V layout Four overhead camshafts Four valves per cylinder Static electronic ignition Bosch Motronic 5.2 Bore and stroke 3.46 x 2.95 in Individual cylinder capacity 27.8 cu. in Total cylinder capacity 334.0 cu. in Compression ratio 10.8:1 Maximum power output 480bhp at 7000rpm Maximum torque 420Lbs-ft at 5000rpm Engine weight 512 lb Oils Shell Gear Ratios 1st 13/41 2nd 17/37 3rd 23/36 4th 27/32 5th 31/29 6th 33/25 Brakes Front Fixed caliper in aluminium alloy 4 pistons with differentiated diameters 1.5 in./1.8 in. Drilled discs, diameter 13 in., 1.26 in thick; Rear Fixed caliper in aluminium alloy, 4 pistons with differentiated diameters 1.2 in./1.3 in. Drilled discs, diameter 12.2 in., 1.1 in thick. The brake pads use ITT Galfer 3321 GF friction materials. Wheels and tires Tubeless radial tires Front 8.5 x 18" with 255/40 ZR 18 (except Michelins) Rear 10.5 x 18" with 295/35 ZR 18 Performance Top speed 199 mph 0-60 mph 4.3s 0-1/4 mile 12.6s | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 587 Registered: 1-2002 |
there you go again, doody, throwin' a wrench in the machinery. j/k most aftermarket exhausts tend to lean out the bottem end grunt (loss of backpressure), but add top-end (larger diameter piping = less restriction = motor breathes easier). torque is always the number to watch, though, as horsepower is just a function of the torque; thats is, hp = torque x rpm/5250. what would be interesting to do, would be to dyno your 550 w/ and then w/out the tubi should you decide to go without it. then you'd establish the watermark. regards, hubert | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 843 Registered: 11-2001 |
hubert - mine's a tubi too. now that you mention it though, i think i may be mis-remembering. "robs some low-end torque and adds some high-end hp" would fit your analysis, woudln't it? maybe that was what i recall. it's all a blur, in fact :-). i have a six-week old at home so REM sleep isn't common in my household as of late and ye olde brain isn't quite operating all that well ;-) i'm still seriously considering putting it back to stock though. i do find the noise, while glorious at startup, a bit much over long periods of time. doody. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 585 Registered: 1-2002 |
doody- your 550 is stock (sans tubi), no? get it on the dyno, and we'll all be able to speak empirically. i'd wager that the tubi, perhaps, gleans a little bottom end grunt off the 550, but adds to the top end; since the tubi runs w/out the flaps, and less backpressure, but opens up the exhaust system, i.e. larger diameter piping. -hubert ps- no assertions on my end, just guesstimation. regardless, in either example, the 550's showing great driveline efficency. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 840 Registered: 11-2001 |
i don't know that specific 550's details, but contrary to hubert's assertion, my understanding is that the tubi reduces horsepower on the 550 as compared to the stock exhaust. so while it's rated at 485 stock, my understanding is that the tubi pulls it down 15-25 or so hp, so in fact, a flywheel number of 409 is in theory even better than the 15% calculation. this would be more in-line with edward's comment re: the vipers. i'd love to see the data? did you guys get printouts you can scan/post, especially the 550 owner. doody. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1167 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think it was done in 4th gear. The last run through to 6th gear was for fun. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1166 Registered: 8-2001 |
I don't have the torque figure for the 550. The speedometer in the 550 had indicated 212MPH though. Last year, I got 323.8 rwHP on my car (stock, no Tubi). | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 582 Registered: 1-2002 |
Edward- Depends. I don't have the ratios in front of me, but the gear you want to use is the one that has, or is closest to, a 1:1 w/ the final drive. But, sure, the 550 could have more to offer, since, I believe, the 6th is more of an overdrive, than an actual gear, no? | ||
| Edward (Edward_96gts)
New member Username: Edward_96gts Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2002 |
I suspect the 550 has more in her. If it was dynoed in 6th gear, this #is too low. Most Vipers that are rated 450 hp at flywheel are consistantly putting down 400-420 rwhp, but they're in 4th gear. Try another run in to see if their is an impovement. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 581 Registered: 1-2002 |
Willis- No, I could not, however, if your 360 was dirty...BRAVO!! It's entirely too refreshing to see people driving (really driving) these cars; dirty, raining, etc. it's how they should be used, a one and a half ton mantle piece is not what these cars were meant to be. 409 rwhp! wow! Considering the 550 is rated at 485 flywheel that comes out to be a driveline loss of only 15%, very nice; however, I'm sure the Tubi got him pretty close to the 500hp (flywheel) range. With that hp figure in mind, he's still at 18% driveline loss. In both instances the 550 beats the average 20% driveline loss figure. Awesome! Regards. ps- what did the 360's put down? oh, and do you recall the torque figures on the 550; that's the most important # of all. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1165 Registered: 8-2001 |
That 550 owner drove all the way from Oregon to join us for this event. He got the best HP rating of the day @ 409 rwHP. You should have heard it at redline in 6th gear (euro 550+Tubi). Unbelievable! You mean, you couldn't see the dirt on my black 360? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 579 Registered: 1-2002 |
The owner of that red 550M should be complimented. His car is dirty, from regular use. Nice to see a dirty ferrari every now and again. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1164 Registered: 8-2001 |
I believe it's TdF blue. | ||
| Amar Inam (Amar360)
Junior Member Username: Amar360 Post Number: 119 Registered: 10-2002 |
Nice pictures! Which shade of blue is the 360 in the top photo between the black and the red 360s... is it Tour de France? | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 483 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nice. Real Nice | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2521 Registered: 8-2002 |
Awesome pictures, Doc, thanks for sharing... i guess the day went well...? Those shots of the four 360s are awesome- not to mention that they're all different colors... i've never seen a yellow Pantera before, that was pretty nice... The tires on those things always make me all warm and fuzzy inside... Can you tell us about the read-outs...? | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 94 Registered: 12-2002 |
I need more Modena please    Thanks for showing up from Portland and your Euro red 550 deserved to be a winner at the Dyno Day  Mexican food anyone??   What is Pantera doing there with 335/30 tires in front of me??  Thanks for everybody for another great event. Dr. Shelbee |