| Author |
Message |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 707
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 3:24 pm: | |
Andreas, pace-wise, the Mazdas fall somewhere between F2000 and F3. It's nice driving on slicks, too. The problem with wanting more power and speed is the exponential cost curve. That's the point when you're better off racing instead of doing lapping days. I was doing a practice session once, and among the other cars was a GrandAm Prototype. (Not big, like Audi--I think it was a Nissan) I walked over to check it out, and the owner asked if I wanted to drive it. "Yeah!" I said, before my common sense caught up. "$25,000" was his response. That's for the weekend, minus parts, tires or damage. All of a sudden, 10-12 race weekends for the same money didn't seem too expensive. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 706
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 3:13 pm: | |
Noel, if you've never been to Gingerman, it's approx. 2 hours away, in South Haven Michigan. Fabio Castellani (former elf Formula 3 scholarship winner) is their primary driver/coach, and is a great tutor. Like I said, you get a lot of track time for your money. If you ever get to where you decide to race, they're also pretty fair about negotiating the cost. Let me know if you have any specific questions I can answer. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 757
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 2:01 pm: | |
One thing, that bothers me with all the racing schools is, that they all basically run the same kind of car. Similar weights and engines, barely no ground effect etc.
Although that makes great sense to teach people, it would be nice, if there was a school, that gradually builds you up on bigger and better cars. Barber uses the Dodge monoposti and then the Atlantic cars to get its pro pilots up the ladder onto CART/IRL, but these venues aren't open for weekend racers like myself.
Does anybody know about a school/place that lets you get your feet wet with bigger stuff?
In essence, this is one of the reasons, why I rented a F3 and F1 in Europe and love driving101.com for their CART/IRL replicas. But those aren't really racing schools, but paid drives for half a day or so. It'd be nice to have a multiple days class on something bigger than a Skip Barber or Mazda. IMHO those are all the same power/weight ratio etc. |
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 477
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 1:46 pm: | |
http://www.proonemotorsports.com/
Talk to Fabio.
The team is at Gingerman and the owners are in Chicago. They do arive and drive or maintain your own formula car. They're a Formula Mazda authorized dealer, too. Data aquisition, hospitality, testing, SCCA Nationals/Regionals and Pro Racing. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 753
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 8:42 am: | |
BTW: Was thinking about Jack's review and his technical statements about the critique etc is all true. However I didn't feel it as being talked down, but rather as healthy positive feedback. I'm not much of a racer, so I learnt a lot. Even months/years later when going through some thight turns I hear my instructor's voice in my head "late turn in, aim for the apex, double clutch, vavoom, squeeze the pedal, aimpoint...".
Also I had an encounter with the concrete wall and thought, that was it, they're gonna ground my sorry a_ss. But guess what, they immediately gave me the muletto, set me up and on my way. The mechanics repaired my car and in the afternoon I was even handed back my original car. The bent suspension now sits amidst my race memorabilia as a reminder for when to take it easy. Nobody ever gave me grief at Barber over this. Quite the contrary, they wanted to make sure I understood my mistake and sure as hell I did. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 628
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 9:14 pm: | |
Noel: I did the 2-day high performance driving course, at Road America, by Skip Barber, but years ago. It was great......drove BMWs, but was able to drive my 308 QV, when I wanted to.
My nephew took the 3-day race course......he loved it. |
noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member
Username: Noel
Post Number: 168
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 7:56 pm: | |
Rob/Jack, tell me more about this course at gingerman...i don't know anything about it. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 703
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 5:53 pm: | |
Rob, you're right. It's perfectly normal for people to have differing experiences, and going from Barber to the Mazdas was night and day. It's not unusual to put in up to 150 laps in one day, if you're up to it! The ProOne boys were great, and I ended up leasing a ride with them, only to meet more great guys who raced with them. Gingerman is a great track for learning--definitely better than the short course at RA. Noel, you'll probably have a good time, but be sure to check out other options. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 751
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 5:53 pm: | |
Noel,
I did the 3 day Skip Barber class in Road America together with a friend. We both enjoyed it tremendously. I'm not saying Jack is wrong by any means, I guess people make different experiences. I wouldn't bail out of it, but stick with it. Road America as a track is worth it as it is spectacular.
Besides, in the introduction they ask everybody, what they drive and you'll be the star of the show, trust me...
Anyway, in case you get hooked, I'm planning on going back to Skip Barber at RA to do the advanced class and eventually some race weekend to get my national license (after the 3 day class you can apply for a regional one). So if you stick with this, maybe we can do the other class together. My friend would probably join as well, he is a trader too btw. Global Equities for UBS.
Anyway, enjoy it! |
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 464
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 5:03 pm: | |
Noel, saw your other thread too. I think Jack is talking about Pro One Motorsports at Gingerman. I know those guys too. Nice outfit and Formula Mazdas are faster than the Fords Skippy has. Talk to Jack more about his experiences before commiting.
FWIW, you can get your Ferrari on the track at the Brian Redman International Challenge in July, and also at the VSCDA Fall Festival. They (Road America) sell lunch time touring passes. You run for an hour, but speed is limited and traffic may be heavy, but still fun.
IMHO, Gingerman is a great learning track, arguably more fun and challenging than the short course at Elkhart. |
noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member
Username: Noel
Post Number: 166
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 2:34 pm: | |
i'm such a child, no self control. between the time i posted this tread and you responded, i signed up for barber at road america. i could cancel but driving up to road america in my 360 is part of the experience for me. also, i did think about doing more with the barber program, mainly because i don't know of anything else. i'm all ears about alteratives. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 699
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 1:43 pm: | |
Noel, is this your first Barber school? If so, you might want to consider this: I did a 3-day school at Derek Daly in Vegas, and it was great. You had your own car the entire time, they used telemetry readings in their instruction, and I never felt "talked down" to. At the time, I was the only student of 9 with no prior racing experience, so that was important. Plus, it was in Vegas, and I earned my racing license!
A few months later, suffering from a severe driving jones, I did a Barber lapping day at RA. I didn't really enjoy it, since you share a car, which drives like a tank, and the moment you start settling in (about 8 laps), you have to hand the car back over. At every corner (you only drive the short course), they have coaches taking notes. When you pit in, what seems like 10 guys get in your face, bombarding you with critiques of your driving, with little in the way of actual coaching. Early on, when my pedals felt mis-aligned (they were), the mechanics threw me huge attitude when I asked them to take a look.
Bottom line is, if you're getting into Skip Barber for the long haul, they'll welcome you with open arms, all the way to the bank. If you're only going for a day or two, you're cattle. Eventually, I got involved racing with a Formula Mazda group in Michigan, and they gave me much better instruction, as well as bang for my buck. For what Barber charges, you can get a lot more. |
noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member
Username: Noel
Post Number: 163
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 11:50 am: | |
Guys, i'm thinking about doing skip barber at road america in may, anyone else have an interest? |
|