| Author | Message | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 310 Registered: 7-2002 |
Drew, Skip et al, I can clearly see how emotions around this topic can become elevated. Perhaps we might change the focus of this to make it more productive for people with an aspiration for "competing" for an award. Let me state at the outset, as someone with a somewhat modified car (brakes, seats, belts, wheels, tires, ignition, adj-ARB etc), I have no expectations of having my car "place" or win, in a concours event. Others, though, have made significant investment to keep their cars original. Perhaps you (or one of the other judges) can share with us the criteria for judging the cars -- as I said, for sure it will aid others preparing their cars or in thinking through the restoration of a vehicle -- for example, the merit (and cost) of searching for that original part or investing in new paint, a full detail etc. As the event grows in prominence (as I think we all hope it will and can), some guidance to people seeking to win an award would probably go a long way. Thanks to Mike, Dave et al for a great event, and I too look forward to the next one. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1463 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh, and btw: Welcome to FChat Skip and Drew!!! Our family is growing. At least something good came out of all this.  In case you haven't heard yet: I'm planning on putting together a FChat Midwest 2004 calendar with pictures of our cars. So let's make sure at the next FCA event I get some good shots of your cars respectively. Be that with or without 'Display only' sign... | ||
| Drew Massa (Gila)
New member Username: Gila Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2003 |
I am now forced to respond to Mr.Williamson's (Skip) message of 7/2/03 so as to set the record straight. I'm the "high ranking board member" he refers to and I clearly disagree with his opinion. If I may explain: For those who may be unfamilar with Ferrari events, many of the judges, directors, and chapter officers do,in fact, show their own cars at the very events that they are working at, and are judged. This is an accepted FCA practice and is done on a national basis and it continues to be proper and certainly correct. Relative to this event and my car, I'm usually a "display only" canidate and this event started out no differently. What was different, with all the running we were doing that morning, I neglected to tell the judges of this. Therefore, unknown to me, my car WAS judged, and won, and I graciously accepted the award -- after all this was cleared by the chief judge. Now questions have arisen that cast a shadow on our integrity and, in turn, raise questions on my part: -- Is there any doubt as to the expertise and level of professionalism of our chief judge, Mr Jim Riff, who is also an FCA national judge ? -- Is the car itself (no matter who owns it) able to win on it's own merit ? Now if someone has a different opinion, or a different adgenda, or a different whatever and has a problem with all of the above -- that's O.K., I'ts their right. But they need to get their facts straight. However, calling us a "Good Old Boys Club" is an insult to me, to the administration, and to all those members who work so very hard to produce a quality event, as Oakbrook was. | ||
| Drew Massa (Gila)
New member Username: Gila Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hello gentlemen, I've decided to jump in here. | ||
| Mike Epifanio (Mike_e)
New member Username: Mike_e Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2003 |
The owner of the car in question after seeing a number for judging on his car changed it to display only but did not think to have it removed from the lists that the class judges had for cars to be judged.It was not known till 2:15pm when we were lining up the cars for drive by that it was discovered he had won.At that point we did not have time to go back and judge the class again. I then told him to just accept the award.Also many of the cars that were not preregistered and arrived late were not included in the judging. | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 688 Registered: 9-2001 |
I'm glad this was brought up, I really didn't pay much attention as to who won, but how can a car that is NOT an entry ( display only ) win anything, FCA officer or a nobody the rules are the same. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1452 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hmm, that sounds weird. How can a 'For display only' car win? I saw those cars too and it is nice to have some off the shelf dealer cars on display, but it sounds unfair that a car marked as such would win. Not that I'm into Concours (as you can tell by my rear wing), but this sounds odd to me. | ||
| Mike Epifanio (Mike_e)
New member Username: Mike_e Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2003 |
If you have never seen a board member win a award maybe you should attend a national meet.I am a regional director and concours judge and have won awards many times on the merit of my cars not my titles. | ||
| Craig Williamson (Darolls)
New member Username: Darolls Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hmmm,doesn't seem that my 1st post went through. So here it is again: It was a great time but, there was a problem in my eyes. Since I was a staff helper, and worked the event, I didn't feel that my car should be in contention for the awards. Yet, a high ranking Board member did win a first place award for his car, even though it was clearly marked 'For Display Only'! I belong to a few car clubs, and never have I seen a Board member's car win an award; they're not in the running! I dropped out of the FCA a number of years ago, because of the politics. But I rejoined a few years ago, because I thought things had changed... I guess they haven't.....it looks like it's still, 'The Good Old Boys Club'! | ||
| Mike Fisher (Mikef)
Junior Member Username: Mikef Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mike, I had a great time....great event! I hadn't thought about it till I read the posts, but the car positioning could have been spread out a little bit. I realize it is hard to visualize how they will be lined up until all the cars have shown up. The selection of vendors was top notch. I can't think of any other car event where the selection of food was so fantastic. I hope they were all successful and will want to return again. Thanks to everyone who worked so hard to make the event such a success. | ||
| C O Jones (Cojones)
New member Username: Cojones Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2003 |
Great event... congrats to the organizers, in particular with rallying more attendees. The Lambo and "other marques" (Alfa, Lancia, etc) were pretty interesting. A few suggestions for future events: the Ferrari 3x8 gridding seemed a bit too "crowded" IMO -- more like an auto dealer than a show. Suggest non-parallel blocking to showcase different lines/profiles. Lambos seemed well represented, but the older vintages in general seemed a bit dis-organized. Maybe organize by vintage/decade and group that way ?? Saw a lot of nice non-Italian cars in the paddock... several other events (e.g., Concorso Italiano) are recognizing this, and giving them more showcase opps as well. Surely better eye-candy than a row of Caddys (?). Would it be possible to publish an exhibitor roster? See http://www.concorso.com/CORRAL/corral.asp for an example (see bottom of page, lists by marque). The little bread shop was GREAT -- definitely recommend the pretzel bread (!). Keep it up. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1439 Registered: 10-2002 |
One thing that came to my mind today is: Since we have somewhat of a bigger space to play with, how about arranging some of the Ferraris (the more common ones like 3x8, 355, TRs) into a big word like 'Enzo' or 'Ferrari'? We could shoot the picture from the roof of the Continental trailer. Always wanted to participate in a thing like that. | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 304 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike I thought the event showed the amount of effort that went into its preparation. Great job to you, Dave M and the others. Hope to see you at Gingerman. | ||
| Dan Gordon (Ferruccio)
New member Username: Ferruccio Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2003 |
I loved it. It was a great event I especialy liked the F1 car. The only gripe is that I didn't get to see an enzo. I kind of thought there would be one there for some reason. | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 685 Registered: 9-2001 |
All in all a good event, I agree with Andreas the layout of the cars was not good, last years was much better, the fence used around the F1 car and the 333 could have been done better, looked like a last minute thing. And not on a F1 race weekend either | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1422 Registered: 10-2002 |
First of all let me thank you and your team for putting together yet another fine event! We had a great time and really appreciate your efforts. But since you're asking for constructive criticism, here my $ 0.02: - I was not too happy with the layout of the cars. It looked more like a parking lot, than a nice display of great cars. You guys are probably bound by the space you're given, but if there is any chance in going someplace else on that ground, I would have preferred that. I was once at a similar event in West Palm Beach. There they displayed the cards 'strewn out' on the Polo ground and the cars looked a lot nicer, than being bunched together. - I'm a sucker for 'trophies'. So if a memento plaque or something could be had (e.g. the Oak Street box or Lake Forest's plaque), I'd be happy to even pay more than the regular $ 20. - If possible, two different cut-off times would be helpful: Say 9am for those who want to participate in the Concours and e.g. 11am for those, who just want to put their cars on display. - Don't put the event on a weekend, where there is a F1 race. Again, none of this is terribly important, but since you asked. | ||
| Mike Epifanio (Mike_e)
New member Username: Mike_e Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2003 |
Any comments or suggestions on sundays show at the Polo Grounds are appreciated.I hope everyone had a good time. |