| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Janes (Sparetireless)
Junior Member Username: Sparetireless Post Number: 152 Registered: 1-2003 |
Dear michael, What type of cost should one expect to pay for a full disk change out like yours? | ||
| michael aguilar (Michael)
New member Username: Michael Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2003 |
Have a 2000 360 F1 just recently had a clutch and clutch disk change, car has done 9800km only. With this service I also change the tranny ECU , the later versions are better. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 382 Registered: 3-2002 |
I agree with Lou... the heresay from non-360-owners seems waayyyy worse than the direct testimony from 360 owners. I have 12000 miles, about 1/4 of those track miles, and my clutch feels great. I do not have any trouble driving it smoothly. I love the F1... and my next 360 will have F1 also. | ||
| stephen winter (355f)
New member Username: 355f Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2003 |
michael klein I agree!! the latest 355F1 although perhaps a little more basic in technical sophistication than the 360 F1 seems to offer a better experience. The problem with the 360 seems to be that the fly by wire throttle seems to make it more difficult to drive in a smooth manner even if your used to the system. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1708 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lou, I saw a 98 355B F1 with 17k on it getting a new clutch recently.... | ||
| Michael Klein (Malibumk)
Junior Member Username: Malibumk Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've got a '98 (first year)355 F1 with 26k on it...it's never had any problem. Recently had the clutch out to replace the cracked rear cover (damn!!)and would have put a clutch in but it had so much meat on it (shop manual covers wear limits) and the surfaces were so nice, that I just put it back to together...about 5 hours round trip....so why waste $1000 to $1500 on un-needed parts against five easy hours of work. It's shifts smooth and hard if it needs to at high revs in sport mode. I've had several other drivers in the car and invariably they were amazed at how much BS they'd been fed about F1 knotchyness. Realistically, the 6 spd is no dream transmission ( ever shift one thats been used a bit at cold temps ??)...so any faults in the F1 are more like differences than some disparity aginst perfection (ie the 6 spd). As for smoothness; having had several other drivers in the car, I find that folks want to drive an F1 like an automatic. That is they want to use two feet ...with one on the brake and the other on the gas. Once I get then to recognize what the computor is doing, and that a touch of the brake at very slow speed is asking to de-clutch, and gas is asking to engage the clutch...they tend to start consiously driving it like the automated manual that it is. And with that they come to accept slower shifts at slower speeds ( just like they'd shift a manual) and they quit clutching and de-clutching when the feel the otherwise normal (manual like) clutch engagement...etc. Demanding autotrans like smoothness from an automated manual isn't realistic. Start compareing it to the six speed in real terms and you may find, as I have, that it's 6 of one, half doz of the other. They both have their +'s and -'s. A final note: I agree with whoever said it below....you really need to drive both quite a bit and under a variety of conditions to recognize all of the strengts and weeknesses of both versions. 20 miles arond the block with a salesman can't get you there. One guys 2 centavos. | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 274 Registered: 4-2001 |
15000 miles, 16 track days, 4 brutal 1/4 mile runs, 360 F1 fine, no problems. There was a previous thread on how many ACTUALLY HAD clutch wear or tranny problems rather than "I heard..." Response as I recall was not very many responded . If you believe my dealer and I have no real reason not to, he says he has never replaced a F1 clutch. Would be interesting to see actual clutch spare part sales data between 355, 360 F1 and manual but until then (if ever) I guess stories will rule. | ||
| Robert (Rjklein4470)
Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 284 Registered: 3-2002 |
I just sent my car to Ferrari of Huston, to have the clutch adjusted on a F-1 system. I have about 8K on the car, and started to feel the car jerk from 1st to 2nd. They checked the clutch and I still had a very good clutch, but the tech told me that the computer does not adjust to clutch wear. Now in a Manual your foot will adjust to the length of travel, the computer needs to be adjusted for clutch wear. They adjusted the clutch and the car is perfect. I chose Ferrari of Huston because they run the Challange cars, and they work on there Challange cars. Some of the dealers that run the Challange cars sub out the work, and do not know how to get the cars set up. I also think that in early cars there could have been some confusion on how to set the clutch, and the tech's could have set some up wrong causing the clutch to get fried, and no dealer would admit, or eat a clutch. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1455 Registered: 8-2001 |
I wouldn't call what happened to my car a horror story. It was unfortunate a mechanical part locked up. Replace the part and the car's good as new. It's no worse than the stories and issues I've read here about other Ferraris which could put me off of purchase considerations. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 600 Registered: 10-2002 |
The F1 is what puts me off from getting a 360, because most 360s sold over here would come invariably with F1 pre-installed. Horror stories abound on this board to deter me from even trying one.  | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2341 Registered: 7-2001 |
I had this conversation with the mechanic at Norwoods just last week. He said the 360F1 is nothing but problems, the 355F1 has had very few. Go figure. He thinks the 355 is the 2nd most reliable Ferrari you can buy. Number one is a 328. | ||
| Jerry J. (Coyote)
New member Username: Coyote Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2003 |
I bought my 2003 360 F1 about 6 weeks ago and have about 3500km (2200 mi.) on it. No problems whatsoever and it works as well as could be expected by a computer that has no idea what the driver's next intentions are w.r.t. throttle position. Too early to tell about reliability I know but this system is extremely well engineered IMHO. Only suggestion would be to reduce shift times at lower throttle settings as it seems too slow under these conditions but I expect there is a good reason for this. I use "Sport Mode" only. I am completely happy with the operating characteristics of this system and recommend it to all potential purchasers whether for track or street. I have not tried the stick shift model (although that is what I originally ordered) but once having gotten used to the F1 system I now love it. I remember trying out two 348tbs and shifting them was almost painful, the clutch and shifter efforts were so high. Just my $.02. | ||
| john (Johnwto)
Junior Member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 108 Registered: 6-2002 |
ernesto, what does this mean: "Most of the problems I've seen with clutch wear on F1 is from people who drive them like if they were automatic transmissions" can't you just step on the gas and go? how do you drive an automatic compared to a standard? | ||
| stephen winter (355f)
New member Username: 355f Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2003 |
DAVE BURCH Would agree with you on 360v355F1 although the 360 is technically more sophisticated i tried 3 360 of various vintages and thought the F1 was nowwhere near as good IMO | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1659 Registered: 2-2001 |
Most of the problems I've seen with clutch wear on F1 is from people who drive them like if they were automatic transmissions or Tiptronics, and cant really adapt to driving the F1. I've seen some pretty messed driving on F1's, especially in stop and go traffic. Ernesto | ||
| 911 Fan (911fan)
New member Username: 911fan Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2003 |
Dave, I remember reading somewhere on F-Chat that, according to FNA, the expected life of an F1 clutch is 5K-8K miles. If you get any more miles out of it, consider yourself fortunate (either that or you're not driving hard enough!) | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1453 Registered: 8-2001 |
I alway ask about the clutch when I get the car serviced. Each time, they tell me that it's fine and note that the wear is normal. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1641 Registered: 5-2001 |
How about clutch life? I remember at a "tech session" at an FNA dealer that the head tech said Ferrari felt that F1 clutches would last longer than the standard transmission clutches, since the shifting would be more consistent, versus the variable of "operator (owner) error". It seems from what I have heard on Chat, that the F1 clutch lasts about the same, or even LESS than the standard transmission. Anyone care to chime in to agree or refute this? | ||
| john (Johnwto)
Junior Member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2002 |
how about 2000 miles on my 355f1 and the clutch/clutch plate assembly had to be replaced !! now have a 360 with traditional 6 speed | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1658 Registered: 2-2001 |
about 11,000 miles on mine. zero problems. smooth as a baby's bottom. (KNOCK ON WOOD) Ernesto | ||
| Dave Burch (Merlyn)
Junior Member Username: Merlyn Post Number: 115 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've got 17,000 on a 99 355 F1 with no problems, (knock on wood  ) My impression is that it shifts smother around town than the two 360s I've driven. On the high speed back roads it's simply wonderful. On the track it's OK, but that is a personal preference I think. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1639 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry John, but your personal experience of 2k miles worth of driving is hardly an endorsement that F1 transmissions are reliable. I certainly HOPE they work well, but since most of these cars are NOT driven much, it may be a long time before we really know. Willis Huang has 20k plus miles on his, and a problem has cropped up. I wonder how many other 355/360's with 20k miles have had problems? | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 968 Registered: 4-2002 |
"Street car-6 speed. Challenge car-F1." I noticed that the ALMS cars switched back to 6-speeds for endurance racing. Wonder what this says about the long term reliability of the whole affair? | ||
| John B (John_b)
New member Username: John_b Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2003 |
I picked up a '99 360 F1 with 5,000 miles on it this spring and put 2,000 on it since. I have had zero problems with the car and absolutely love it! | ||
| thomas wilkinson (Farmboy)
New member Username: Farmboy Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks for all the info. It sounds like unless I can afford a late model 360 (2001 1/2 and up), I would be better off with a six speed to start out. I don't plan to track the car. I gather that the F1 transmission in the 355 must be pretty jerky for around town driving, but okay for full throttle shifts. I assume that the service history should show records of any consistent transmission issues and that cars with no real transmission problems with 5000 or so miles will be good candidates for reliability, with the exception of normal wear and tear. Am I getting the picture? Thanks again for all of your advice. You guys are great! | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 561 Registered: 6-2001 |
Street car-6 speed. Challenge car-F1. (not that you have any choice)This is the jerkiest F1 transmission ever known to man, and I don't know one person who can drive a 360 Challenge smoothly at low speeds. The clutch is either fully engaged or fully disengaged. There is no way to "feather" it. Makes sense for positive engagement at track speeds, but would NEVER want to drive one on the street.However, at full throttle shifts are extremely smooth and super fast. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1448 Registered: 8-2001 |
The F1 actuator locked up on my 360 during the end of a recent 3 day roadtrip. After 2+years of ownership from new and 20k+ miles, this was the only F1 component that was faulty and had to be replaced. In the past I've posted an issue with the F1 system dropping to neutral. That turned out to be a leaky rear main seal and a comtaminated friction disk that confused the F1 sensors. I think others found out that their problems were not directly related to the F1 system but due to clutch wear. | ||
| Dave Janes (Sparetireless)
Junior Member Username: Sparetireless Post Number: 149 Registered: 1-2003 |
It seems like they have the F1 working well now. The takeoffs are pretty good now, the '03 seems to work much more nicely than the '02 F1. I was looking for a stick but now I think the F1 makes more sense, I really like being to hit auto mode when you are fooling with radio in traffic or holding a coffee. | ||
| robert biscan (Tn_ferrari_bob)
New member Username: Tn_ferrari_bob Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have read many posts on this subject before and I am in the minority by a lot. The 360 f1 is so smooth that it feels like a buick to me. The delay in shifting is noticable which was done to save the cluth and tranny. My 355 was thrilling all the time which I sold for the 360 f1. I sold that car and in about 6 more weeks my new 360 6 speed will be here. I would like to get a maranello since its a 12 but I just can't forget about how much I enjoyed the 355 f1. The 360 is quicker and has more torque. | ||
| N'din (Abangdin)
New member Username: Abangdin Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2003 |
The clutch wear is the main complaint, I think. As for the "jerky" motion on 1st when you take off, that has been "cured" with the new ECU since late 2001 models. I've had my Modena since 2000 and the mechanics checked the clutch recently and it was still very good. And I've had 2 tracks days since I new. There are two things that you have to remember. The gear is manual so in the traffic jam when you expect to stop for a bit, put it on nuetral. Second when you're tking off, unless you want a quick getaway, you should prod the trottle, let the car move then accelerate away. Most people just floor the trottle every time from standstill and this sure to wear the clutch fast. As for the lengthy shop stay, the dealer should have these "wearing parts" available off the shelf and a clutch change if and when it occurs can be done very quickly. The F355 F1 system is more "crude" compared to the Modena. Why the ECU is mounted on the cross bar in the engine compartment. It looked like an after market job. | ||
| BILL CHIUSANO (My355)
Junior Member Username: My355 Post Number: 191 Registered: 3-2003 |
The issues w/ the F-1 tranny in the Modena were all resolved in the latter part (2nd half) of 2001. I'm gonna go tommorow and drive an F-1 Modena coupe in Scottsdale. I'm concidering trading up to it from the 99'355 F-1 GTS I currently drive. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 877 Registered: 9-2002 |
Tom, as far as F1 goes...the newer the system the less chance it will mess up greatly....some 355F1s are perfect some aren't so...but with each generation the system was/has been refined and in theory works better. | ||
| thomas wilkinson (Farmboy)
New member Username: Farmboy Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2003 |
Buon giorno! I am eagerly anticipating the purchase of my first Ferrari sometime in early 2004! Anyone out there know if the F1 transmission in the 355 is more or less problematic than the 360? I have searched this and the FCA forum and can't find anything. The Forza magazine 355 buyer's guide made no mention of the F1 transmission causing massive $$$$$$$ in repairs and long in-shop turnaround. There are many complaints from 360 owners about F1 problems, lengthy shop stays, $$$$. Any help would be appreciated. I think the F1 transmission would be a lot of fun, faster shifts, etc. but am open to the suggestions of the many experienced ferristi who frequent this fine forum. Thanks in advance for you time! |