| Author | Message | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 386 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sean I am sure as you know their is no such perfect Ferrari out their unless its been completely gone thru recently, and I am sure that one will still have other issues of paint, int, rust, etc It seems you always put more into a car than planned anyway, I have about $4k in mine since I bought it a year ago If you really like the car you can make it work,he wants $26k you want $24k, your are not that far off, just have the belts changed and then drive it back and you can do the rest at your leisure, a belt change only for my 328 is 6 hrs labor @ 75/hr $450.00 +parts $120 x 2 bearings and $30 for belts. Valves rarely get out of adjustment some thing you can check when you get it back. You could also change the fuel filter and plugs in LA yourself. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 979 Registered: 4-2002 |
This thing needs an engine out service--even if the belts ar OK. The cam seals, head torque, and all the rubber parts should be replaced to put the car 'right'. Hold you ground ($22K) and see if he comes back around. He is probably selling and can't go lower, because he knows what it will cost HIM to hold onto the car! | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2367 Registered: 7-2001 |
Sean, you have no idea how fast the $$$ will add up. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 354 Registered: 2-2003 |
That's why I'm saying no to $26k. I know I'll put money back into it, and even though I'll do the 30k service myself and save some $$, I'll still want to fix other stuff on the car to "make it right" in my eyes. Also, I can't drive it back so now I have to spend $1200 to ship it. The $$ add up fast. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1125 Registered: 10-2001 |
I love the chase! It took me a year to buy my Europa as I wanted a very well sorted car and there just aren't very many of those; maybe 2-3 for sale in the US at any given time. Way fewer than 308's! When I found the car I eventually bought, we negotiated for a month. We both walked away a few times too. We finally met in the middle, and I'm happy with the car. I have put a ton of money into what already was a pretty good car. I expect a low 20's 308 will be a similar experience. If you can't get your price, then walk. The seller knows what the car is worth and so do you, so if you stay strong you'll get a good deal even if you end up spending a little more on repairs than you thought you would. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 353 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks Tyson, I've already checked into that car. I talked with the last mechanic and he said it won't hold compression on the rear bank, needs an overhual. He said he wouldn't pay more than $10-$12 for it. I may call and see what he'll do. Then I could get it rebuilt with high compression pistons, reprofiled cams, etc. | ||
| Tyson Hall (Trhall)
Junior Member Username: Trhall Post Number: 225 Registered: 6-2003 |
Sorry to hear things didn't work out Sean. This might be a car worth checking into http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/5/8/54105958.htm | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 708 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sean, I would walk away.... nothing more expensive that a low priced neglected Ferrari... Pay every penny you can muster and buy the BEST 308 you can find, in the short and long run, it will be the cheapest car! | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1676 Registered: 5-2001 |
Don't call him. If you do, wait at least a month...and tell him you just wanted to check with him, as you are deciding between his and another car.... | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1103 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bottom line: Norm's estimate of $21K is a Great deal........too low, since he would have already sold it to someone else. Price of $26K is too high........there are MANY at that price. Hence, a real GOOD deal would be something in the middle.......about $23.5K-$24K. You just have to ask if $800 more is worth it to you. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1102 Registered: 8-2001 |
While Norm may be correct, waiting 2 weeks, and calling him back, will tell you how motivated he is, to sell. At $26K, add transport of $1200, and you have $27,200. Now at this price, you should be able to find something else, and possible better.......since this is NOT a great deal. | ||
| Norm (32storm)
New member Username: 32storm Post Number: 41 Registered: 5-2003 |
Sounds like another 308 that is just a low 20's car. Back to the same old decision, pay more & get more vs. pay less & get less. If he's not motivated to sell, I wouldn't expect him to move much from the 26K. But, at that price of 26K, would be good car to pass on. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1101 Registered: 8-2001 |
Sean: I was typing my post when yours came in. If your max is $24K, then $800 more is NOT much to get what you want. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1100 Registered: 8-2001 |
Sean: While I don't know the value of 3X8s, I do understand you dilemna. Many times, a buyer feels that the seller MUST sell, due to some financial hardship....hence a GREAT deal!!!! While this is true in some cases, more often than not, it is not true. Most of the time GREAT deals are those we never hear about. I was in the seller's position last Fall and Winter. I had offers I could not accept, and decided to keep the car. I did hear the usual: service to be done soon ($8500 per buyer); since the clutch lasted 7 years, it MUST need a new one; etc., etc. While Dave might be right....car is worth $20-$21K, I doubt that you could find a comparable one for that. If he was willing to take that figure, he would have, and you would never had heard about the car. Wait 2 weeks and call him back. You may want to negotiate the shipping cost into the deal. Offer him $24,800, and walk if he does not accept. Good luck in your search! | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 352 Registered: 2-2003 |
Oh, it's not to bad of a fever. I've already set my price and I won't go over $24K. I can do the belts myself and most of the other stuff, but he doesn't need to know that. And I'm his ONLY lead. He can't sell it in CA b/c it has no emmisions equipment on it and it was in storage when I called him. It was advertised for 3-month before I called and he didn't even have digital photos, which tells me he's probably not really interested in selling it. When I told him it's 3-4K to do the belts he was like "that's rediculous!"...while I silently agree'd, I left it out their. That and the other "issues" means their is a big "matsa ball" hangin' out their. I don't think he'll call back. I don't think he's stupid and if he does, he knows that I'll have complete control instead of the proverbial ball in my court. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1673 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sean, Don't get the "fever". You are probably his hottest lead in months...tell him fine, and wait him out...personally, I would not pay more than 20-21k for the car you are describing..as others said, too many better cars out there...just keep looking. Walk, and he will come back with a lower offer in a couple weeks guaranteed, in the mean time, you can keep working on finding another car. | ||
| G. Green (Mr_green)
Junior Member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 114 Registered: 8-2003 |
Where is Enzo motors located? | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2364 Registered: 7-2001 |
Walk away. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 351 Registered: 2-2003 |
Well, it's all over now. He just called (again, called earlier and I was putting the kids to bed, said I'd call back - he waited 20-minutes). I mentioned everything above and he said he'd come down $2,000. ($26K). I'm still not clear on the belts, He said it was 5-6 yrs ago but Enzo Motors says it was 1984 when the engine was done so I don't know who did the belts when. He sounded impatient, said he'd come down $2k and any lower he'd just keep the car b/c he couldn't afford to sell it for less. Though Blackhorse was telling me about the belts b/c "They just want to sell you the service"....crap...I really thought this was going to work out.  | ||
| G. Green (Mr_green)
Junior Member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 112 Registered: 8-2003 |
I was wrong, that's triple! | ||
| G. Green (Mr_green)
Junior Member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2003 |
A good paint job will run you 6 to 8K. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 350 Registered: 2-2003 |
Ferrari Beverly Hills wanted $960 to do all they did (leakdown, drive, put on lift, etc.). | ||
| G. Green (Mr_green)
Junior Member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 110 Registered: 8-2003 |
Sean, That's a very fair price. The authorized F-car dealers would have charged you double. Good luck on you're decision either way. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1144 Registered: 10-2002 |
Sean, This is going to be your decision in the end, but in my opinion, the car seems a bit too neglected to have not had a major in 20 years. Even with a rebuild, the potential for unforeseen problems is very high on these cars. Even changing out the ignition system to electronic from points could cost a few $$... Think more like $6-8000 in fixes, plus the $1200 transport. At the end of the day, it is almost a $30k car. There are others that are cleaner and better maintained that can be had in the $28-32k range, IMO. All the engines are pretty strong... the re-jetting is a nice touch, but with paint (which could cost upwards of $2-3k) you're possibly looking at more. Alternator, etc are easier fixes, but still $$. That's what PPI's are for... don't feel obligated to buy just to put it back into the shop for another 3 months. Walk, IMHO... there are other sweet Ferraris out there.  | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 349 Registered: 2-2003 |
Blackhorse Motors in LA. Look on the Ferrariclub.com rolodex and they're listed. Leakdown results listed below. Did a great job IMO. $300. Talk with Carl or Steve. | ||
| G. Green (Mr_green)
Junior Member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2003 |
Who did the PPI? Did you do leak down and compression? How much did they charge? | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 348 Registered: 2-2003 |
Overall the condition is GOOD. Leakdown showed 3% accross the board (one was 4, one was 2). The car needs a major service. The timing belts were last replaced when the engine was built in 1984. I thought it had been more recent, but the engine builder told me this was the date. Mileage was 56,230 at the time so only 10,000 miles in ~20 years. Belts, hoses, etc probably need replacement. He said the cam seals and the cam drive seal were both leaking oil and the heads need to be torqued (leaks a little when the engine was running). Carbs were a little rich but that's an easy fix. Also, he didn't think the paint was all that great. It was "OK" in his words and maybe a good detailer with a buffing wheel, polish and wax can make it shine again. He said that he'd seen better paint. The alternator failed his test and needs to be replaced and the battery was weak (because of the alternator). The alternator worked, just not too well. Driving back is not an option with the timing belts issue. So, I'm looking at $4,000 (minimum) in service + transport ($1,200) and it may need paint in a few years (doubtful, but a factor) So, not what to do. I think I'll offer him $22k as a starting point (he's asking $28k, was asking $32k in May). I'm the only caller and he can't sell it in California b/c their is no emmisions equipment on the car. The mechanic reitterated several times the engine was VERY strong. Stumbled a little at low RPM's b/c of the rich carbs but it was strong. Engine rebuild included 10:1 pistons, reprofiled cams, and rejetted carbs so I would expect it to pull a little better than a stock 308. |