| Author | Message | ||
| Edward (Edward_96gts)
Junior Member Username: Edward_96gts Post Number: 87 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks Terry,I'll be in touch. Ed | ||
| Greg (Greg512tr)
Junior Member Username: Greg512tr Post Number: 191 Registered: 2-2002 |
"I do not have any pics, serial number, or much info on the car. " Was the friend of a friend selling the car named Matt by any chance? | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 770 Registered: 4-2002 |
HJehehehehehee, Ken, Im sorta surpised you didnt get even more emails! My hat is off at your patience! I found during my Daytona search that were are tons of people out there wanting a beater Daytona to drive/restore over time but there are very few cars meeting the description. I think thats why poor condition drivers still bring strong money. Some guys just want to do the restoration and care care that in the end they will have more in it than they could have bought a finished car for. To each their own, its all fun! Ed, you have mail. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 422 Registered: 2-2002 |
To the dozen or so people that have emailed me. There is no $60K Daytona, $70K maybe, but not $60K. The price I was quoted was not enough for someone to make a profit on the car by flipping it based on the amount of work the car needs. In addition, the seller is a friend of a friend who is in need of some cash. In fact, I was told that the deal had to be done no later than last week. My emails have gone unanswered and I have yet to confirm that the car is even for sale. For all I know the car could already be sold, or the owner does not want to sell it. I do not know. I do not have any pics, serial number, or much info on the car. If I do find out more info about the car, I will be more than happy to send the info to everyone who has emailed me in the order I have received their email. Ken | ||
| Edward (Edward_96gts)
Junior Member Username: Edward_96gts Post Number: 86 Registered: 8-2002 |
Terry, Did you receive my email? Ed | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 766 Registered: 4-2002 |
Whether you can afford it or not, plan on keeping it or not.... if you can pick up a running/driving Daytona for $60K.... do it now. Actually, If you dont want it I do. You could probably flip it for a quick $20K+ in a matter of weeks! | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 351 Registered: 5-2002 |
where is that 60,000 dollar daytona? I am sure some might be interested in it if you no longer are... | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member Username: Aventino Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2003 |
Also depends on the restoration as it would appear folk have differing views on what they believe is quality. Was at the auction at the UK motoring museum a little while ago and an unrestored tired Austin Healey went for not a lot less than a restored one. I asked the auctioneer who said people have differing ideas about what they want from their restorations and would rather start from scratch themselves. My point is that if you are holding on to the Daytona for ever (as I happily would) then it may be worth it to restore the car yourself. There is enormous satisfaction and you know it inside out when you've finished. Maybe in dollar terms the numbers don't stack up but that's not why enthusiasts get involved with cars in the first place. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 421 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks guys for all of the great advice. As V.Z has inferred, I do not have the funds necessary to purchase a good quality Daytona right now. I was using the buy now pay later theory which only leads to problems later down the road. Purchasing a $120K plus Daytona is not in the game plan anytime soon. However, I can afford half that amount which is about the price of the Daytona I was referring to in my original post. I currently have a mutliple platinum award winning 308QV that I am very happy with. I would have to sell my excellent condition 308QV to buy a beater Daytona. While I would have a Daytona, I would be driving a car that I really could not afford to properly restore at this time. As such, I think that I am better off keeping my 308QV which I can afford to maintain to high standards. After I graduate law school in another year I will be in a better position to purchase another toy. The Daytona just seemed like a good idea given the low price. In reality, a $150K Daytona would be cheaper for me to purchase in a few years when I am ready. Ken | ||
| Ron (Easy_rider)
Member Username: Easy_rider Post Number: 688 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ken here is the info from an ad in today's LA Times (8/22/03) if you are interested. 72 Daytona Red/Black Options. $129,000 (mdu119) pp. 727-515-1965 (car in LA) Hope this helps (mdu119 is the license plate). | ||
| Don Vollum (Donv)
Junior Member Username: Donv Post Number: 144 Registered: 1-2002 |
Terry, I somewhat disagree. I own both a 365 2+2 and a 456, which is analagous to the Daytona/550 comparison. They are both great cars in their own way, and both appeal to me. Before buying the 456, I considered both Daytonas and a 365GTC/4s. I ended up buying the 456 because it was local and nice and the right colors, and I thought it would be fun to experience a modern Ferrari. However, I do agree that 550 prices won't significantly affect Daytona prices. I would expect 550 prices to stabilize a little below Daytona prices, and then move more or less in tandem. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 761 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mark.... I never even considered a 550. I really dont think that may people interested in a Daytona look at the 550 as an alternative. One is a totally modern luxury grand touring car offering phenomenal modern performance. The other is a vintage brute that can be loud, brutal and demanding of its driver. I much prefer the Daytona looks to the 550, but thats just me. I love driving vintage cars because you are so much more engaging for the driver without having to push them to insane speeds. To really push most modern sportscars to the point where you are fully engaged can only be done on a racetrack. I know the magazines seem hype the Daytona/550 connection and I can see the point of the 550 being the modern interpretation. I just really dont see the choice between the 2 being tough for buyers because they will appeal to totally different types of enthusiasts. | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 346 Registered: 5-2002 |
Back in the mideightees, I bought a great daytona that needed cosmetics. I had the interior redone , the dash redone, the seats, carpets, the trunk, as well as a total repaint by Bo Pirkle in Atlanta. Twelve years later the car is gorgeous still, because it was done right. I do not recall having to spend more than 40 thousand...and Bo stripped the car (and minor rust problems become major when you strip it) for everything. I don't remember the exact amounts I spent but it was well worth it. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 696 Registered: 10-2001 |
How does the fact that the 550 is a modern Daytona effect the worth of the old Daytona's ? Mazda Miata totally took the value out of restoring the old MG's I know Ferrari historic cars are in another world. But its awful easy to be drawn to a fantastic 550 instead of having to fuss over a Daytona if the front engine 12cyl is your goal. Daytona is not the only game in town anymore in the world of Ferrari... and that must effect the prices when considering a restore? | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 760 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ken and Bill make great points. What exactly is a "perfect" Daytona good for. The first time you drive it and get a rock chip on a suspension control arm.... its not perfect any more. Ooooops, I got on the brakes and now there is some brake dust on the caliper! Ahhhhhhhhhhh Also, you would definitely spend $200K+ on a total nut and bolt restoration if your expecting Pebble Beach winning quality. Im planning this winter on really going through the engine bay and underbody on my car. It all looks great now, but Im going to give it the full "treatment" on cleaning/repainting/replating and detailing. I expect it to look like new when done. Then I will drive it just as I do now. Next summer, it will still look great and like a new car to any normal human.... but the white glove concours crowd would penalize it im sure. So what. Id rather have a $130K Daytona I can drive and enjoy keeping up than a 100pt perfect $160K trailer queen I cant even drive. So like has been suggested, decide what you really want. Ken: new Daytonas were not perfect. Body gaps were often not even, typical of a hand built car. The hood on my car has gaps a tad bit uneven left to right. I figured it would be simple to just adjust it a bit, its an even gap lenthwise on both sides, but not the same width gap from left side right. Just shift it over a bit on the hinges, right? No. Ferrari did not engineer in any adjustment capability. When they built the cars, if the hood fit pretty well, the gaps were close but not perfect.... they figured that was fine. I may drill the hinges to gain a bit of adjustability when I have the hood off this winter. If you look at all the concours cars, they body gaps, paint and detailing that is far beyond anything the factory ever did. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1130 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm with Bill. 30 year old cars are never perfect. I have over $20k in my Europa and the most I've seen one sell for is $16k so that's not bad...but last night my distributor broke (anyone have a spare Lucas unit?? I just need the housing!) and my rear suspenson needs to be done, and the washer isn't working, etc. etc. But until last night at least, it was a *perfect* car as Europas go. I suspect Daytonas that are DRIVEN are the same, unless you do a full blown frame off. But in the day, even new Daytonas weren't exactly perfect, were they? | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 901 Registered: 2-2002 |
As I read your posts, Ken, you often refer to the fact that you will have a 'perfect' Daytona at the end of the restoration. Perfect is a very powerful word, with many connotations. If by perfect you mean Pebble Beach level you're talking at least $200k in restoration costs. Or do you mean that it will be a 'perfect' driver? And will the desire to have a 'perfect' car drive you to splurge a little here and a little there during the restoration? Before you start this project I think you need to define exactly what you mean by perfect, budget for it and have the discipline to stick to your plan. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2002 |
why not buy as is, get it mechanically passable, spruce up a bit(read, low $$), drive it for a few yrs, then sell it cheap to the next person? Your logic of drive it, then restore it right before selling it reminds me of many people i've seen who *finally* get around to fixing up their house, cuz they're putting it on the market. Why not do the fix up at the front end, then enjoy the house/car/whatever during the entire time you own it? Or, drive as is, no pretext of a mint classic...you *could* still have the snazziest grocery-getter in the parking lot at Safeway...  Your original post kind of implies you have minor $$ now with which to get the car, but not major $$ to get it looking spiffy. | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
Junior Member Username: Fodee Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2001 |
Dude, I have been looking for a Daytona to restore for some time. If you don't buy it, pass it along to me. I have the capability to completely restore the car so my time is "free". You are better off buying a restored car since you will get a hefty discount on someone elses restoration. I like the restoration part better than the actual driving (just kidding). Is this by chance the ratty Daytona in Campbell Ca? That guy wanted 129K and it needed a complete resto. I am looking for a car to do a competition conversion on. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 757 Registered: 4-2002 |
I purchased my Daytona #12775 4 months ago. I am the third owner, the second owner had it for 28 years. I have all receipts, books and records going back to 1973. The car has 65k miles. It received a bare metal repaint by Bo Pirkle a few years back, the paint is really incredible. The engine was fully rebuilt to factory competition specs by Terry Girrone (sp) in Atlanta in the late 1980s. They spent $8k on machining alone.... The transmission and brakes are new, done by FoA. The interior is excellent. The suspension is tight and has all been rebuilt. It has the euro knockoffs and 9" rear wheels. Its a plexi nosed car. Full stainless exhaust. Detailed engine bay. It runs and drives perfectly. It has an onboard fire suppression system, an auxilliary oil cooler and ignition upgrades. The engine builder claims 400+hp, it runs VERY strong. This is a euro car, the 51st Daytona built. I have the complete factory build sheets and a heritage certificate. The build sheets on this car were featured in a 2 page spread in the book Ferrari Daytona by Gerald Roush. Its not a show car. Its not a #1 condition Pebble Beach contender. It is however as nice a driver as you are likely to find, needs nothing and is a total hoot to drive. I paid $125K. It came with a complete set of NOS leather Daytona seat covers that Ive been told are worth $5K. http://www.f1freaks.com/megabbs/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=36 I am totally in love with the Daytona. Its the most fun car I have ever driven, a total blast. I highly recommend it! Based on the mountain of receipts on my car... a high quality restoration would cost you a bundle. Doing Paint, chrome, rubber trim, interior, suspension, brakes, transaxle & clutch, electrical, and all the other odds and ends a restoration winds up needing would probably cost you $75,000. Note that does not include an engine rebuild. If your current engine has good compression and pulls hard, its probably fine. Detail it out, and leave it be. The engines in these cars have a reputation of being very strong and reliable. If you are paying $50K or less for the car... go for it on the restoration. It will be a fun process, you will learn a ton about your car and you will know exactly what you have when its done. If the price is more than $50K, keep searching. It seems Daytonas with "needs" but still running/driving have been selling for $85K to $100K depending on actual condition. To me, that just does not make much sense. You would need to spend $60K+ to turn the $90K car into the $125K car, and thats if the restoration costs dont get out of hand. | ||
| Tyson Hall (Trhall)
Junior Member Username: Trhall Post Number: 226 Registered: 6-2003 |
Ken, is it a Plexi? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5813 Registered: 5-2001 |
I would buy it and restore it at $100,000. I think that is feasable if the engine and tranny is in working condition and the car obviously runs. The engine overhaul is questionable if you really need that. You may want to but do you need to? I read something about a Ferrari engine from 50s that was never opened. Go figure. They are solid built and should last many many hours of running time. Body and paint is an easy fix. Interior is an easy fix. Just find a good shop anywhere in the US and have them redoe the leather and trim. No issue. You can be driving a nice Daytona at less than what you suspect if you ask me. I'd love to look at that car if you don't want it. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2002 |
James-I'm not reading what you write, I'm just looking at the pictures! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2375 Registered: 10-2002 |
Tony I agree completly. I was just answering Rob's question about the relative costs of restoring rare engines lets say with a cracked block or damaged head. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 122 Registered: 10-2002 |
But a P4 is worth more...that's why a perfect GTO is more useable than a perfect 330 2+2. Even if you totalled the GTO, it would still be worth it to fix it, and as a percentage of the total value, cheap. My 330 on the other hand is always one good sized fender bender away from a complete write-off. I like the concept of a daytona you could drive and not worry about, fixing it up as time went on to what ever level you wanted. If you buy a perfect daytona you will not want it to ever get wet. Maybe the best is to find a slightly less tired daytona someone is actually using now-fewer surprises. | ||
| Lawrence Yee (Ferrariguy)
Member Username: Ferrariguy Post Number: 295 Registered: 8-2002 |
James......... WOW...... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2374 Registered: 10-2002 |
P4 engine...  | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2373 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rob The costs would be MUCH higher for a 250GTO or a one off. These costs start at 200k and go to over 1 million. Take a P4 for example. There are NO spare heads existant. None. No spare blocks. No spare chassis. You can make anything but think about how much it would cost to duplicate this engine?  | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 393 Registered: 8-2002 |
You can probably still source body panels or suspension etc or find them used for the Daytona and maybe the 330 but the 275 and especially 250 GTO would be impossible which you would need to have custom fabricated which would substantially add time and cost. The Daytona would be the least expensive to restore | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 709 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ken, as a past Daytona owner, if you enjoy the restoration process (as I do) buy it and restore it for the pleasure of returning the car to its former glory. I think you are about right on the restoration cost as long as the rust issue is very minor (it probably is not as minor as you think). The cost to rebuild the drive train is finite, the body work can be infinite! You need to do this for the pleasure of the restoration, because it will be cheaper to buy a Daytona that is already restored. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 3025 Registered: 12-2000 |
I agree Rob. They are all the same: V-12's, four wheels, metal bodies, leather interiors, etc... | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5982 Registered: 12-2000 |
here's my question, will a 330 2+2, Daytona, 275, and 250 GTO all cost about the same thing to restore to respective levels? I would think mostly so. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 419 Registered: 2-2002 |
Rich: The treat then becomes trying to locate a Daytona in perfect condition AND for $150K or less. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2371 Registered: 10-2002 |
BUY ONE THAT IS ALREADY RESTORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A restoration will cost much more than the car will be worth. A Daytona is not a 250GT0. | ||
| Gil Lucero (Exotic_car_guy)
New member Username: Exotic_car_guy Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ken, The amount of money that will be required is highly variable depending on your restoration goals. Are you trying to make it close to a 100point concours car or are you just trying to make it a presentable driver? Having made that decision you need to get an expert PPI to get the best awareness of the current condition of the car. How many items needing to be repaired/refurbished/rebuilt/replaced will be a big driver on the cost. To give you some feel I could see spending $10K - $15K on a good paint job. Interior re-do $5K - $10. V-12 Engine rebuild $20K - $30K. You may need to refresh the brake system, cooling system, suspension system, electrics. My guess is that you will need to put in at least $100K to make it a very suitable car, but not concours. If you needed to do a frame off full restoration, you could approach close to $200K. To restore a car properly takes a lot of time and patience even with the best people working on it. If you're looking at putting $150K into the car including purchase price and restoration work, you may want to consider starting with a cleaner example. Gil | ||
| Rich Carter (Wfo900)
New member Username: Wfo900 Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2003 |
Anything fast and expensive - Ferraris, Porsches, Italian Motorcycles, etc are always cheaper to buy done. It is very hard to resist adding that little something extra "as long as I'm there." Buy a car someone else has done and which has been inspected by a Ferrari expert unless you are a certified mechanic with access to cheap parts and truly well qualified craftsmen. I am saying this from experience. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 418 Registered: 2-2002 |
I have the opportunity to purchase a tired Daytona for what I think is a very low and cheap price. The engine works and the car can be driven, but the car is not representative of what a Ferrari should be. The car will need new paint, a new interior, a possible rebuilt engine some time in the future (the engine still has a lot of power and does not smoke), and a new suspension. There are also some minor rust issues. I am sure that there are other issues that will need to be addressed once the restoration process is started, but I believe these are the major issues. The car appears to have all of its parts, so obtaining hard to find parts should not be a major issue. This should also reduce the cost of restoring the car if I am lucky. My question is what is involved in terms of cost and time to restore a Daytona? Can the restoration be done for $100K? Note that I will not be doing any of the work myself. The purchase price is extremely cheap, but I do not want to sink $200K into the car with a restoration. My reasoning in purchasing the car is to buy it "as is" and to drive it for a while. In about 2-3 years I would then have it restored. Even if I will have $150K invested into the car after the restoration, I will then have a restored Daytona for about $150K. This is about the current cost for a very nice Daytona. The only difference is that this Daytona would be fully restored with no stories. Even if I have to invest a little more than $150K into the car, I would still have a perfect Daytona that I would be keep for a long time. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. I just do not want to get myself into an ugly situation. Ken |