| Author | Message | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2952 Registered: 2-2001 |
JRV, Thanks, yes a little. I am hoping to have Penske shocks & custom springs & sway bars in the car before Cavallino to drop ride height, We will also be adding a wind splitter & Enclosing the front wheel wells to reduce lift. I just wanted to get the car on the track before I left for law school so it still has a lot of development but at least I can drive it now  | |||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2351 Registered: 11-2002 |
William, beautiful car! a question, doesn't that ride hieght and lack of an air damn, to keep the air out from under the car, upset the high speed handling? | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2951 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ok lets see if this photo appears  | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2941 Registered: 2-2001 |
For some reason when I think of a TR I think of the old Auburn Boat Tail roadsters of the 30s. That was a very wild design for its time also. Both are still way cool cars | |||
| Tony (Sportveloce)
New member Username: Sportveloce Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2003 |
Its not so bad that the Testarossa values have been consistently falling. I have been watching them for a couple of years now, and they are starting to become affordable (hence my first sentence). From what I have gathered they are around the same price as a 348. I like the rear-end mods that are happening where the grille is taken away and a 355 rear end is exposed. If the time was right I would most definately purchase a TR. Interesting comment from nebulaclass that the rear end is only slightly larger than the 360. Visually I would have never picked that. | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2931 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hmm, why didnt my bloody photo appear? What size do these pics have to be again ? Thanks By the way, does any1 have a photo of that recently rebodied TR in UK? seems to have a 1970 512M like nose & rear window over engine, rear also resembles the BigMac F1 a little also. Interesting car | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2930 Registered: 2-2001 |
Heres one 512TR whose price isnt falling You want this car & its gonna cost you. I'd trade it for a BBLM or an F40LM. Otherwise she's staying with me
| |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1150 Registered: 8-2001 |
Hi Chris, I hope you are enjoying the "new" TR luggage set. Hank | |||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 2045 Registered: 11-2002 |
Omar, >>I mean just look at this car! Tell me you don't have a smile on your face!<< As a matter of fact I'm frowning because that car doesn't belong to me.  Love those 512Ms as well. Cheers | |||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 405 Registered: 11-2002 |
The TR is only a TINY bit wider in the rear than a 360. Don't believe me? Go measure it. I know this because I sold a TR this way. The guy didn't want it because he said it was too wide. He loved the 360, but couldn't afford it. I took the guy to a 360, measured the rear, then took him to an 88 TR with 2200 miles on the clock, and measured the rear. The difference was negligible. This convinced the guy to at lease DRIVE the car, which then convinced him to BUY the car. He loved it! | |||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 91 Registered: 8-2003 |
Personally,I think that if Testarossa's (Tr's,512's) JUST CAME OUT,NOW. That people would go "gagagoogoo" over them. When they were introduced back in '85, they wre "way ahead of their time", in the styling dept. So,only because we've seen them around for the past 18 years, has time,"caught up" with them,so to speak. But...to most people...still timeless! | |||
| Chris Burch (Cyb)
New member Username: Cyb Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2003 |
I was never much of a TR fan until I saw a '92 Yellow / Tan, one owner, 6k car on the showroom floor at FODallas a few months back. Bought it on the spot and it's been awesome. I've had the fortune of owning most of the normal exotic stuff from 911 Trubos to my F40, and the TR has been the biggest surprise based on all of the stuff I had heard. A truly incredible car. It's plenty fast, great handling, air always cold, and it's comfortable! Always gets tons of looks and thumbs up. I saw 160 running with a sport bike this morning, had a good bit more. No complaints here! | |||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 946 Registered: 9-2002 |
DAVE:
Personally, I like both. Wish I could have both. TRs have always been, and will remain, my fav. Ferrari series, with the F512M my fav. Ferrari. I mean just look at this car! Tell me you don't have a smile on your face!  thanks to whoever took and posted this great pic | |||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 710 Registered: 3-2002 |
It is worth it though. | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2923 Registered: 2-2001 |
If you want something REALLY expensive to fix, get a Countach LOL I'm sure the old Bugs, Duesys, & 50s Ferraris probably are not too cheap to fix either | |||
| David (Nboy)
New member Username: Nboy Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2003 |
My first Ferrari was a 91 TR. Most cars (almost ALL cars) are cheaper to fix, and a better investment. But, if you have to rationalize about owning this car, you should drive it. Then, if you still don't understand, you probably never will. I have a '98 355 spider, and its awesome, but no other car I've ever driven or owned is as enjoyable and rewarding when driving fast as the TR. Slipping the tail out just a bit around a fast corner, or accelerating hard in 3rd at 65+ mph - what a rush! I can only explain it as passion. Friends have Porsches and M3s - great cars, in every way, but somehow they don't evoke the same emotions or driving pleasure that Ferraris do. Ferrari ownership is not rational, but definitely worth every penny. I think I'm gonna go for a ride in the TR... David  | |||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 66 Registered: 8-2003 |
One last point... I just got my October 2003 issue of Hemmings.(which is a pretty good gauge on pricing) Notice that the,older,much rarer cars;like the 275GTB/4,365GTS/4,are going WAY up,fast.(ASKING price,anyway) The 365GTB/4,maybe down just a little. But,355spyders and GTS/GTB cars-Down ALOT!! I suppose that its only a matter of a little more time,and we'll really start to some some big disparity in these cars,i.e: Ratty,unmaintained examples,going for "cheap" asking prices. Not all that long ago,were seeing a $30-$50,000.00 and more, jump over 348's. Now,seeing some cars almost down into 348 price range. But,what exactly does that mean? Crappy,unkept cars,or,if you've lost your job or dot.com business.(divorce,medical problems) And whats the FIRST thing to go? the TOYS! That could explain SOME "bargain basement" prices. But,all in all ,I think that Ferraris-ALL Ferraris- are gonna go up in value,when the economy turns around,be that due to an administration change,or,whatever...(NO!Absolutely NO politics on FerrariChat!!!)Because,there WEREN'T that many made in the first place!! And,think of how many were "lost" throughout the years. That lessens the quantities even more. No,I dont think that you"ll ever see a 308 or Testarossa going for what a 275GTB/4 is going for. Maybe in a long time from now,50-100 years!? And,as far as all the criticism about "ratty" cars goes... ALL cars,ANY car,can be fixed,rebuilt,restored. Sure,it costs money,but,ever see pictures of "barn finds" and their restorations? Whats the big deal about repairing or restoring a car? Look at all the guys who sink $100,000.00 to restore an old 40's,50's,or 60's car. They NEVER get what they put into it,out of it. They do it for the LOVE of the car-plain & simple. Economically sane? No. But,if its your hobby,and you love it,who cares! And,most importantly,if you can either afford to pay someone else to do the work for you. Or,are mechanically inclined to do the work yourself,than "why not?" Why do some guys think that Ferraris are "exempt" from proper maintainance costs,replacement parts costs,and restoration costs? simple. $MONEY$ And its gonna cost MORE to fix up a Ferrari,than a '72 Pinto. But,the Ferrari is more DESERVING.(unless you are extremely passionate for '72 Pinto's!)So,most people KNOW and REALIZE when they got into Ferraris. That they COST MORE to buy,insure,drive,maintain,etc... BUT...THEY GOTTA HAVE A FERRARI. And,unfortunately,the realization that the maintainance costs are alot higher,has not scared off enough people! There are a few that "slip by". So,whats the result? more people,who THINK that now that they can get a REAL Ferrari for the same cost as a 5 year old vette,or a new Mustang GT,getting in,and also realizing that they cannot afford to properly maintain the car,either. A vicious cycle!! But,hopefully,someday,someone will buy the car,cheap,and fix it up,restore it,to its original condition. Because,no matter what,it IS still a Ferrari. | |||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2869 Registered: 9-2001 |
I too love the TR and often miss the one I once owned. I think Ferrari needs to bring back a flat 12 mid-engined car to go with the mid-engined V8 and front-engined V12 models. | |||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 65 Registered: 8-2003 |
You know,I just found this chatline about a week ago,so,I can input a fresh opinion,(my own,ofcourse!) Everybody is different. Cars are different. Even SAME MAKE,MODEL,& YEAR CARS,can be different. Some people like this car for this particular reason,some people like that car for that particular reason...THANK GOD that we ALL dont like the same cars for the same reasons,because,that would make for a really boring hobby. When I was first "exposed" to Ferrari. I was a teenager (1970's) And,like most of you,saw a 308. Might have seen an older Ferrari in a 1960's Peter Sellers movie,or something,but didn't know it. There were posters of 308's everywhere. In the 1980's,we had Magnum P.I.,Christie Brinkley in "National Lampoons Vacation",etc... that gave the 308's alot more exposure,thus,more popularity,thus more supply to fill the demand. Leaving alot of 308's still available to us,today, 20 something years later. I agree with previous posts about too many guys buying Ferraris that cant,wont,and dont maintain them properly, mostly due to the fact that they cannot afford to. Then,Miami Vice comes out in the 1980's. First,with a "fake" corvette/Ferrari 365GTS/4 spyder. Then, a real one. Then those cars went through the roof,price wise. Then,we got the Testarossa. If you are approx. my age (43) you remember when Testarossa's came out,they were the ULTIMATE Exotic,along with the Countach. A Testarossa was the most beautiful,awesome looking,expensive,powerful,fastest car around. (like the 1975 Kawaski Z1B-900,that I had. Once,was the fastest,most revered "speed" bike around-til the Ninjas came out,then,so on and so on) So,in their day,they WERE the most awesome car around! But,through the years,alot has changed.Technology has advanced,styles have changed. And,to the "up and coming,newer generations" old and "Passe'". But,not to us guys who were there when they first came out! And,NOW that we can AFFORD one (to include initial purchase price AND proper maintainance) we are in heaven! Just like the guys the generation before us who always wanted a Corvette,or specific muscle car. NOW they can afford THEIR dream car (not what someone else considers as "their" dream car)Irregardless of how much money that you have If you always WANTED a Testarossa,THEY DONT MAKE THEM ANYMORE!!! So,you HAVE to buy an older one! No choice! Even if you can afford to go to your local Ferrari dealer and buy a 360,456,575-they aren't a Testarossa! Sure,probably a better more advanced car,but,you dont care-you like the LOOK of the Testarossa!!! Its too bad that Ferrari doesn't consider a "re-issue" of some of it's more popular cars-308's,Testarossa,365GTB/GTS Daytona,275GTB/4,-like Ford is doing with the GT40. A "TIMELESS" body style,but had primitive,1960's mechanics. Could you imagine a Testarossa or 308 with the technology,power,and creature comforts of the 360 & 575! They'd have to update the interiors,though. When I first got interested in Ferraris. Unless they were;"low,wide,flat and pointy" I had no interest in them. That pretty much left out most cars built before 1970,or so (to me,anyway) But,after I started checking out books,Ferrari car shows,etc... Saw the beauty in EVERY Ferrari. And,now,I appreciate ALL Ferraris. See,I wasnt even taking into consideration,power,significance,rarity,etc... I just liked a modern,Exotic LOOK. And,that is why most of us love and appreciate all Ferraris for what they ARE. Not for what they aren't. Nobody in their right mind can compare a 15 or 20 year old car,with a car built today.Thats actually pretty pathetic,really. If someone wants to compare their 2003 Corvette,to my 1981 Ferrari,they are like the 10 year old kid who can only pick on 6 year olds. But,compare a 2003 vette to a 2003 Ferrari...NO comparison(unless were talking about a Z06),but,EVEN THEN,it doesnt have the same "mystique" as ANY Ferrari,for that matter! Anyway,all apples and oranges. And,if YOU like a 1980's,or 90's Testarossa,who gives a rats ass as to what anyone else thinks! Hey,look at all these aging Hollywood stars,George Hamilton,or,Burt Reynolds,they still attract young ladie for one rea$on or the other! (what a lame analogy,though-but,you know what I mean!)And,for some,these Ferrarri models are and will forever be...TIMELESS!!!!! | |||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1304 Registered: 3-2002 |
tr prices will continue to drop because there is a constant flow of other and newer cars to attract the attention of a car nut with $50k burning a hole in his pocket, and with the urban myths of huge maintenance bills and difficult driving qualities and higher insurance quotes chained around the tr's neck, it will drop in price. time will only help it if a significant number disappear or disintegrate (don't laugh thats what happened to most brit sports cars of the 60's). the 512tr and 512m are in a slightly different league given their lower production runs and higher performance. they will stay about where they are today because there is little downward pressure on prices (ie not a lot of owners hitting the bid in order to put food on the table next week). as far as looks, well i have only ever seen a handful of others around london (not exactly a town devoid of mean iron), and every time i take mine out i attract attention well above 550's and even 360's (not to mention 3xx); so i guess somebody must like them besides me. it is an icon car of the 90's so i don't agree with the article that it will never achieve high status - it already did ! hell they even use it on condom wrappers so its gotta be good right?! | |||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2866 Registered: 9-2001 |
While valuable cars are always rare, rare cars are not always valuable. | |||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1143 Registered: 10-2001 |
Last I heard, Dave Letterman is driving a 246 Dino. | |||
| Norm (32storm)
New member Username: 32storm Post Number: 44 Registered: 5-2003 |
The TR is a beautiful car, but the service cost scares a number of potential buyers away. There are a number of potential buyers who walk away after they find out the cost of a major service, as well as engine rebuilds. i just had this discussion this past weekend with a Corvette owner. They were a potential Ferrari owner, until the subject of service and repairs costs came up.The '63-'67 Corvettes do not have the maintenance cost of a Ferrari, and there is a large restoration parts market to keep cost down. | |||
| RockStar (Remix)
Junior Member Username: Remix Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2003 |
Give it time. I'm sure the future will be very good to the pre 92 Testarossa series. I think they're a basement bargain right now (except for the few eBay sellers who still think their '86s are worth $75k). This was my dream car when I was a kid. I'd love a dark blue or black TR. I still twist my neck when I see them, and I'm really picky about what I like these days. REMIX | |||
| G. Green (Mr_green)
Junior Member Username: Mr_green Post Number: 185 Registered: 8-2003 |
In responce to Dr.I.M. post, they made alot of 63-67 corvettes and they are selling for 8 to 20 times there original price. | |||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 352 Registered: 5-2002 |
I am not sure that rarity will always affect the price of a car. Jaguar made many thousands of XKE's and the sell for much more now than when they were new...am I wrong? | |||
| Anthony Cheng (Acheng)
New member Username: Acheng Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2003 |
Perhaps I should explain a little more on my previous reference to the 911 Turbo. The 911 Turbo is a great car, a great track car for an experienced driver because of its tricky handling charactertistic when pushed hard. If we were to put an average driver in a 911 Turbo and into a NSX, the driver will probably be more capable of handling and pushing the NSX to its limit than he/she could with the 911 on the track or let's say, on Highway 1 on along the Pacific Coast. But that does not necessary translate to the NSX being a better car. However, on average, the NSX will probably provide the driver with a bit more confidence and security in and out of the corners at speed. Needless to say, everything is relative and is of personal preference. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1132 Registered: 8-2001 |
It seems that, as time goes by, more and more people are living on the edge of financial resposibility.....unfortunate, but true. I have read of 3X8s costing $4K-5K for a major service, while a TR costs $7K-8K.......that is only $3 more for the TR for 30K miles. That would seem to be fair. However, that extra $3K is just TOO much to afford for most people. Hence, they buy the 3X8, for only slightly less than a TR.......put few miles on it, in fear of loosing too much money when it comes time to sell.....or simply disconnect the speedometer.....and HOPE nothing breaks while they drive it. There are just TOO many people buying Ferraris, that shouldn't!!!!!!!! | |||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 160 Registered: 3-2001 |
IMO, the problem with the value is that it's not old enough to be collectible yet and too pricey maintenance-wise to be a reasonable daily driver. I have trouble lumping all of the 84-91 TRs in one group and then saying that Ferrari produced too many of them. There are quite a few differences from the beginning of the production to the end. To the masses they are the same but not when you're trying to repair one, but I guess to the masses all of the variations of 308s and 328s are all the same too. That would put the production of those at over 12,000 308s and another 7,400 328s. I don't care if the rest of the world or the Ferrari snobs don't appreciate my car - I'm keeping it and enjoying it! | |||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 693 Registered: 3-2002 |
911 (996) Turbo 4wd sticks to the pavement. I enjoyed reading the posts. I always liked this car. If you want a more flickable car like Dave 328GTB than this is probably not for you. It is certainly not a canyon racer. An enjoyable GT with power it provides. I have never driven either this or the 512 TR. I have had a ride in both. Everyone seems to conclude that the maintainance is high. At this point you have to decide whether you want to pay the maintainance for what moves you. You cannot come out ahead anyway you look at it. It is unfortunate that the POS vehicles are bringing alot of the others down with them. ie.... A nice original driver that has been maintained is priced pennies over the vehicle that has questionable services. That is unfortunate. Buyers you need to do your research here. Again this is alot of car for the money. What kind of 12 Ferrari that offers similar performance can you purchase for this kind of money ? O/T: BRUCE YOU NEED TO CHIME IN | |||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 407 Registered: 8-2002 |
Okay the real reason: Miami Vice was cancelled and no one watches the reruns anymore. Don Johnson and his wrinkly Peach Jacket and smelly no sox shoes just is not hip anymore, I think it all started to go when he thought he could sing with that song "Heartbeat" And whatever happened to Tubbs anyway and why did they make him drive that POS Caddy with a bad paint job? | |||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1994 Registered: 11-2002 |
ACheng, Good post, but there are some points in which I disagree...the main one being... >>If you want to talk about a car being difficult to drive, ask a 911 Turbo owner how hair raising his car can be in and out of a corner at speed<< The Turbo tracks very very well in the corners. Cheers | |||
| Ron (Easy_rider)
Member Username: Easy_rider Post Number: 704 Registered: 12-2002 |
Acheng, welcome to the board. Good post. | |||
| Anthony Cheng (Acheng)
New member Username: Acheng Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2003 |
Only time can be the judge on the true value of the TRs. We shall see what happens to all the 348s, 355s, 550s, 360s and 456s as the newer models are introduced, and this is not isolated to the Ferraris only, we will see how the other exotics hold up their values as well. The styling on the car is, needless to say, a matter of personal taste. To me, the TR still takes my breath away when I see it. Then again, the same goes for most of the Ferraris I see, I said "most" but not "all". To me, as beautiful as the 550 is, it is just not as unique as the TR was during its production years. If you are in the market for a Super-GT these days, one can consider the 550, DB7, MB SL-series, Jaguars possibile the Z8 and the soon to be BMW 6-series. And if you want to talk about performance, let us not forget the Corvettes and even the Supra-Biturbos,they are just as powerful if not more than the above cars mentioned, from a pure performance point of view. Most of the cars menton above also looks alike with similar silhouettes, I feel that it is because there are only so many things you can do with the FR layout. How many 12 cylinder, mid-engine GTs can you think of right off the top of your head even now?? Also,a mid-engine, 12 cylinder vehicle WILL cost more to maintain just simply because of its lay-out. There are areas that simply can not be reached and serviced unless the engine is dropped out and taken apart. If my memory serves correctly, the Lamborghini SUV in the late 80's require the AC unit to be disassembled just to do an oil change due to the location of its oil filters. Let us also not forget that a major service on any Ferrari is a true and real major service performed, on both the engine and the drivetrain. Take a look at any major service bills from any other automaker, it is pretty much plug in the VAG and unplug the VAG. You can argue that it is because the cars these days are better designed and are better made with longer service intervals, so it is not necessary to have all the works done anymore. That is only true when you do not care if your car is running on top of its form or not. As with anything with moving parts, I can reassure you the calibration will be off to a certain extend with use. Case in point, a Rolex is never going to be as accurate as a digital Casio, but you can have the Rolex serviced, repaired and adjusted as it gets old or worned out, but with the Casio, you will probably just replace it when it breaks. I am sure that any Ferrari will still run even if you don't service the car accordingly, but is that what you want for your Ferrari? As silly as this might sound, I think most of us loses some hair just on the topic of what grade and brand of motor oil to use. I am also sure that all of the new cars named above will handle just as well or even better than the TRs, but the mid-engine layout simply delivers a little more in my opinion, more for the senses and perhaps, more for the souls. TRs may look big, heavy and difficult to drive at first, but as you spend more time with the car, it's size kind of "shrinks" and as you get more comfortable with its handling and power, it gets more agile, more precise and more balanced. But by no means is it as easy to drive as a minivan, it still needs to be treated and handled with respect, just like any other high powered exotics cars. If you want to talk about a car being difficult to drive, ask a 911 Turbo owner how hair raising his car can be in and out of a corner at speed, or ask a Countach/Diablo/Lotus owner how easy it is to back their cars up. The TR is so much more refined and better designed in comparison. As for the price of the TRs, let us not forget that there were also a lot more "investors" than true Tifosi buying the car back in the late 80's/90's. And those investors tend not to have maintain the car the way it should have been, just because most of them don't really care about these cars. Those same investors, if they had survived the economic-hurricane since the 80's, are the same one that drove up and over-paid on the 500E, ZR-1, Viper, Miata, NSX, and the S2000 when they were first introduced. Not to mention the well over-inflated prices on the Ferraris when the old man past away in 1989. Those investors also tend not to drive their cars as well, afraid of putting on milage. I have seen more Ferraris with fused cylinders due to lack of use than anything else. It is a car, an engineering masterpiece that needs to be driven. It is not an flower pot or a Ming vase, it is an automobile!!! And if you are thinking of investment, than you shouldn't be putting your hard-earned money on a car in the first place. Finally, there are simply too many outside factors and opinions that can influence a market of any sort. Just like a lot of things in this world, you need to experience it yourself in order to truly appreciate it. Every decisions we make is unique and personal. Just enjoy the experience of owning a Ferrari, whatever model it may be. If the market value of the car is really a concern, than you may want to re-think about your decision of owning one. Thank you all for reading my persoal opinions on these topics raised. Happy motoring to all PS: Just wondering about one thing, since when did David Letterman become the measuring stick of what model Ferrari is the better one to own? I for one, wanted to own a Ferrari because of my own reasons, not because of certain someone also has one. | |||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 132 Registered: 5-2003 |
The real reason as to why the testarossa is such a bargain today is due to its high maintenance costs, also the 355 has drop a lot in the last year. The 355 is a younger model and because its maintenance cost are not as high as the testarossa this call the attention to many buyers, and to top it off the 355 is quicker than the big flat twelve. Then you have the 348 which is for some an alternative, but lets not forget that the 328 is a public favorite and cost next to nothing when compared to the testarossa. The testarossa is a heavyweight female bodybuilder and not many men have the cojones big enough to handle all of its charms including the high maintenance cost, but me I'll take a big muscle babe before a pretty face skin on bones miss universe bimbo! L. | |||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 470 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks to all for the positive comments about my earlier posting....I was speaking more from an emotional point of view....because I love TRs. Horsefly (Arlie): I was only speaking hypothetically about the $22.5k price on a TR. But the people I've met who want a really cheap TR or are just kicking tires will get what they deserve in the long run, and probably wonder why. No I'm not in retail sales nor do I advocate "illegal price fixing" as you mentioned. I was just saying that if you don't HAVE to sell your TR for a "gotta liquidate it now" price, then don't. If you can, wait for a price that's fair for the condition and history of your car. This is purely subjective to each owner's opinion of course. Like other TR owners I hope the values go up some day. But I'm not going to loose any sleep over it if they don't. I may just have to get a second one to keep the first one company. | |||
| Paul Green (Diesirae)
New member Username: Diesirae Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2001 |
Amen Jeff! Here's my advice: Don't buy a TR (or any other FCar) as an investment. You'll probably be disappointed. However, if you have the passion (and a maintenance budget ;-), you won't be disappointed. | |||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Junior Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 151 Registered: 6-2003 |
This buzz about the TR being so wide and heavy is bunk. I drove a Carrerra for 13 years and felt instantly at home in the TR, which feels lower and wider, but very nimble albeit with a bit more steering wheel effort required. I think people are sensing the diff between rear engine and front. The TR also tracks on the highway better than the Carrera, which was always following the grooves in the pavement. Both cars are rock solid at 130-175. In any event, I have only had the car for a year and it has been a blast getting acquanted with it! If you can get a good deal on a nice TR, don't hesitate. Buy it. | |||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2060 Registered: 1-2001 |
My TR experience is exactly like Marc's: to the F insiders -- TR = piece of sh*t to the public -- TR = gorgeous, beautiful, outrageous, fantastic, stunning, etc....  | |||
| 911 Fan (911fan)
New member Username: 911fan Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2003 |
PeterS "The US government owns $2.0B in private aircraft and spensds $800K a year in maintenance!" If it's only $800K, our government is spending wisely for a change! | |||
| PeterS (Peters)
Intermediate Member Username: Peters Post Number: 1381 Registered: 1-2003 |
Michael..Good point. The US government owns $2.0B in private aircraft and spensds $800K a year in maintenance! | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2896 Registered: 2-2001 |
Very few TRs here in Miami compared to 360s & 355s & people just love to stare at my 512TR | |||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 751 Registered: 4-2002 |
Moreso than many F cars an acquired taste I guess and very late 70/ early 80's, particularly the interior. | |||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 660 Registered: 1-2002 |
I am reminded of a story by David Letterman. His first Ferrari was a 328 (new). He loved it so much, he decided to buy a TR thinking it would be like the 328 but "more". Much to his chagrin, it was nothing like a 328 and he sold it. Last I read, he still has the 328. My commnents: Some people like big, heavy cars with big torquey motors. Others like smaller, lighter cars with small, high revving motors. I am in the 2nd group, I guess Dave Letterman is too. The TR holds no appeal for me. Styling wise, a lot of people still love it, but apparently not enough. I think it has some inspired lines, but when I see one, all I see are the dam louvers everywhere and the overall size and proportions don't work for me. I know a number of people who still think the car is like the holy grail of automobiles. Clearly, there just aren't enough of them to keep values up. Dave | |||
| Marc A. Thurston (Btownv12)
Junior Member Username: Btownv12 Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2002 |
Everyone has made some solid points on this thread. Jeff - great commentary. Obviously the TR's styling is a personal choice. At Monterey this year I saw a very limited number of TR's on the street. The most amazing thing, and nerve-racking to my wife, was the number of people who stopped my car to take pictures. While car guys might be aware of the falling prices, the public is still fascinated | |||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1443 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeff said: "I feel insulted when someone makes a blanket statement about my car being worth "whatever" because they saw another one on sale for $22,900 down at the local auto mart, right next door to the junkyard." First off, exactly WHERE is a Testarossa in completely intact and drivable condition selling for $22,900? "Those of us that know and love these cars need to stick together, and not sell if we don't have to, until we get a fair price." Good thing that you're not in retail sales. The above philosophy would be called "illegal price fixing"!!! Something is only worth what somebody will give. Do Ferrari enthusiasts think that they are immune to that age old statement? If they think they are immune, perhaps that's just more evidence that Ferrari owners somehow consider themselves "above" other car guys. See "Ferrari snobs" thread. | |||
| Kds (Kds)
Junior Member Username: Kds Post Number: 127 Registered: 5-2003 |
As someone who is looking for a TR in 12-18 months and studying the market and the car, I find it extremely interesting to read what people here say on this topic. I too think these are incredible bang for the proverbial buck, provided that you don't pay for too much "blue sky" when you acquire the car......and that you keep about half the purchase price of the car in ready cash to bring it up to the standard you want or to repair any deficiencies that you need to along the way. Cars like TR's....928's....Countach's.....to me anyways.....are in what some of us in the car bizz call their "death spirals"......where the only concern is just that......try and make sure that the one or two or three major issues are correctly sorted, so that when you buy/own the car these problems do not rear their ugly heads and totally wipe your acquisition cost down the drain as a result. Sort of like extended long term care of a terminal patient. No offense to those who may have lost a loved one recently...it's the only comparo I had to use. No two used cars are alike. | |||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2861 Registered: 9-2001 |
When I mentioned to Hugh Stewart at FOA that I had heard of a TR selling for $39k, his response was "how many do you want for that price ?". IMHO it is the number of TRs made that is driving that market done rather than the quality of cars for sale. There are only so many people out there that want an exotic with that styling . | |||
| Brian W (Jetx)
Junior Member Username: Jetx Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2003 |
The bottom line with ANY Ferrari is the selling price isn't always the asking/listed price. Will you see TRs listed for $30-$40k? Not likely. Can you buy one (even a well maintained car) for those prices? If you search long and hard, sure. Take a look at the classifieds (FML, etc.) and you'll see plenty of TRs (and other models) that have been for sale for a loooooooooong time. Maybe the owners won't drop their price, that's fine. But then they're stuck with them. Something else I've noticed is many people can't 'afford' Ferrari's like many people think. Where can you get a good deal? From someone who's had their car for sale, has already bought or getting ready to take delivery of another Ferrari (usually new) and *really* needs the money (i.e. couldn't sell their car for what they wanted). No, I'm not pissing on TR owners and buyers. I want to own one to go with my Mondial. But in my experience and research, many of these cars are priced higher than the demand for them. And unfortunately for other owners or fans of the marque, that's hard to accept. | |||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1617 Registered: 11-2001 |
HEAR HEAR, carguy! doody. | |||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 469 Registered: 10-2002 |
As the owner of a "storied" TR it saddens me to see this grand ol'e lady be so disrespected. My car is in the process of getting back to "worry free" condition. What has been said is true in that it is a rich man's Ferrari. And it's this very idea that contributes to the high maintenance costs. As I'm now doing the major service on my car, I can see that they put quite a bit of "padding" into the service costs. I can understand a complete major service being $4,000 to maybe $5,000 at $100/hour labor. But if you can do it yourself, you can get it done for less than $2,000. It will take quite a bit longer than a pro, but that's why they get the big bucks - for their knowledge and experience. These cars are a LOT of car for the money right now. The market is flooded with questionable cars, this hurts the most in my opinion. As owners less affluent get these cars, they ignore the proper service items, it's a case of out of sight out of mind. And also it's a case of where they are not going to own the car for long. If you have a TR and intend on keeping it, you are more apt to do proper services. But now that these cars are down in the territory of high line used car prices, ethics and scruples are tossed out the window as a number of shady dealers peddle the cars. This hurts all of the good cars out there. People lump them all into the same category, and this is not the case. You get what you pay for, and if I had the extra money I would have paid more for a better TR than the one I have without hesitation. When you see a "lipstick pig" of a TR next to a really nice one, the differences are striking. Grubby ones tend to smoke more, make more noises, and have the engine bay sprayed down with silicone to give it that "new" appearance. Where a nice one starts instantly, idles smooth as glass, and drives like a new car. I believe that all of us TR owners are suffering because of the unkept cars out there. I feel insulted when someone makes a blanket statement about my car being worth "whatever" because they saw another one on sale for $22,900 down at the local auto mart, right next door to the junkyard. Those of us that know and love these cars need to stick together, and not sell if we don't have to, until we get a fair price. I hear that's what most Viper owners do...the unwritten rule. Well, I've ranted on long enough. Thanks for listening. | |||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 404 Registered: 8-2002 |
Terry, A TR can be enthusiest maintained but where is gets very expensive is all the electronic gizmos in TRs which cannot be repaired and must be replaced, 512 Boxers are much less expensive since they don't have these options | |||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 403 Registered: 8-2002 |
The early TRs are whats falling fast, the 512 series is holding its own and probably continue so. A TR vs the 3xx series are totally different cars, the 3x8 series are true sports cars with few options while TRs are GT cruisers with any and all options available, they are a rich mans car when taken care of properly but most I've seen have very limited service history, my 328 has over $30,000 in receipts, nothing out of the ordinary for properly serviced V8s, but many TRs I have seen have had only oil,plug and filter changes, it seems many owners cheap out on maintenance for TRs | |||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 780 Registered: 4-2002 |
Is a TR a car that can be enthusiast maintained? I do all my own maintenance on my P-cars and my 308. Im handy with a wrench, have TONS of tools and have been restoring/fixing sportscars for 20+ years but I have very little experience working on "new" cars. If its all computer controlled stuff like modern cars, Im lost. Can tuning, belt changes, clutch, water pump and all the typical 30K stuff be done at home? Yes... I do have an engine hoist and stands. | |||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 261 Registered: 2-2002 |
snip 1. Long production run - no real 'rarity' 2. Big, Wide car 3. FLOODED MARKET 4. Sour Economy 5. Big...no, HUGE SERVICE BILLS - big factor! 6. Lots of sellers with too-high expectations (MANY bought extremely high during late '80s, they want to recoup as much of their losses/maintenance $$$ that they can - IF they can). Sounds like the new hummer in 5 years! snip No real chance that the TR will ever become a true Maranello classic. This is BS. I have never met a Ferrari I didn't like. Rob Rogers | |||
| rich stephens (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 549 Registered: 10-2001 |
While I refused to drive my friends TR on the streets of San Francisco (didn't want the responsibility!), I gladly drove it on "country lanes", or what passes for them in California - hwy 84, skyling (35), hwy 9 etc. - and found the handling superb. I agree that it feels much smaller than it looks. And obviously the power and stability at speed is tremendous. Great cars at any price, Better if one can repair it themselves, but even then parts cost are high (how much are those spark plug wires again?!) | |||
| Robert Oglesby (Testar1988)
New member Username: Testar1988 Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2003 |
Alot of good imput on this thread!! The TR is large when you walk around it, but once you start driving it it seem's to fit around you quite nice!! And it handles every bit as good as my 911 wide body did, with more h/p!! Blindspot's are there, but you just get use to it..I have owned alot of car's thru the years, but nothing has come close to my TR...Robert | |||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Junior Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 143 Registered: 6-2003 |
My theory: The longer a car is in production, the more disparity between good low mileage ones and worn ones. I agree the $75K reserve was too high, esp in an auction setting, esp w/o custom wheels (a $7,500 option). In an auction, you need the right audience too. Not too many coming to auctions for used supercars w/o historic interest. Do you think a comparable Lambo would have done any better? Lambo is the only comparison to Testarossa for buyers market. Porsche Turbo maybe. You think they are cheap to maintain? Every pay for a new turbo for a Pcar? Stereo systems become dated w/n a couple years of installation, wheels don't. I believe a good, low mileage car with custom wheels will sell well...I get offers for mine just about every time I take it anywhere there is a crowd. | |||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 951 Registered: 11-2001 |
Right on, William H -- you expressed it well! The TR's are definitely in a league of their own IMHO. Haven't found size to be a problem at all (nor any "blindspots" for that matter), Parts are a little higher than say for the 308 (i.e., a pair of decklid shocks cost roughly $130), and these service / repair / parts prices are something that you are aware of and accept going into ownership (as with any Ferrari or other exotic). | |||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 791 Registered: 4-2001 |
If you do not work on the car yourself, the TR can really be truly called, no insult to anyone, a rich man's Ferrari. The cost of entry is far below, by several times, the possible costs of upkeep. Its like jet airplanes and piston airplanes today. I can buy a jet today for half the price of a new piston airplane. But the jet will cost me $400,000 plus per year to operate while the piston may cost $60,000. And the big difference is performance, piston goes 190 knots, the jet 400 knots. Same dynamic going with the TR and the 3X8 series. It aint the money you have to buy with that counts, its the money you have to play with after purchase. And in that scenario after 5 years the TR is still 3 - 4 times as expensive to own as the 3X8 series. I am with William, picking up a couple more might make sense - I just need a garage his size. | |||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1614 Registered: 11-2001 |
Just waiting for the 512 or 512m to follow suit. i wouldn't hold my breath on the F512M. that was produced in extremely limited numbers (~500 worldwide). doody. | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2893 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hemmings doenst have a clue. The TR series are some of the most beautiful cars ever built. Yes they are expensive to maintain, dont like that ? Get a Jetta Its a big car but come to the track & I'll show you how to toss a 512TR around so it feels like a Honda CRX 308s & 328s are nice too but they have little hp compared to a 512TR. prices dropping ? Good, I'll add a 3rd & maybe a 4th TR to my stable, lets see I need a nice 512TR in Azzuro blue & maybe get a straman roadster 1 of these days | |||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 691 Registered: 3-2002 |
Everything you all have posted makes sense. Pitty the person that does not research this car and picks the "cheap" bargain. Just a little more would bring them up to an excellent driver. That bargain without any service records and six owners is going to cost how much to fix ? After it is fixed (or perhaps never) it will still be nothing but a below average car. How much more $$ to purchase a top of the line car ? Probably not as much as you think. Alot of car for the money = TR series. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1129 Registered: 8-2001 |
While the prices are down........I truly believe that the TRs are NOT selling for these LOW prices. I agree with Robert. Robert: Just FYI I was only offered $40K for my black 88.5 TR. NOBODY who called came to see the car.......they ALL wanted to deal on the price over the phone. I doubt that ANY where serious buyers!!!!! It seems that buyers have gotten on this "fictisious" bandwagon, and assumed that ALL TRs where dirt cheap. I also doubt that anyone who called me has bought a TR yet!!!!! | |||
| Robert Oglesby (Testar1988)
New member Username: Testar1988 Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2003 |
TR's prices are falling like a rock?????? Boy I must be blind, it took me a year to find mine, I wanted 88 1/2, black..I looked all over the planet, prices for that color/year was 58k to 80k!! I just don't see that much of a drop?? And yes they are pricy to work on, 30K etc..but I know quite a few people who own them, and guess what, They all cost $$$$...to fix etc..IT'S A FERRARI!!! I with Henryk, I don't see a bunch of TR's flooding the road's, but I guess if we all liked the same thing's, it would be a boring world.. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1127 Registered: 8-2001 |
"they made too many"........interesting, but in my last 20 trips from Green Bay to Chicago, over the last 6 years, I have yet to see another TR on the highway......did see a number of 3X8s though. "falling like the stock market"........from a low of 7,000 the DOW is over 9,000. Maybe the prices of the TRs will now rise. When I had mine for sale, most of the fear was in the service costs. I think the TR is for the one who maintains his own car, as I do. Regarding the size: I have gotten used to it.....NO big deal. Due to the prices, I am looking for a blk/tan 88.5 TR, to serve as a spare parts car for mine!!! While the prices may be low, I don't think that many are sold, because owners, like me, will NOT sell them for those prices........thank goodness. BTW: When I had my TR for sale last year, why did I get most of the calls from the East and West coasts?.....if there are so many cars for sale then WHY couldn't these people find one where they live.......why did they have to call me? I would rather have a TR for $40K, than a 328 for $45K.......ANY day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
| Darryl - TR&328 (Tr328)
Junior Member Username: Tr328 Post Number: 53 Registered: 6-2003 |
Simple, they made too, too many Testarossas, plus the cost of the major service scares everyone away. I still love the car. | |||
| Gabe V (Racerxgto)
Junior Member Username: Racerxgto Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2003 |
Just waiting for the 512 or 512m to follow suit. (In all my spare time, or as a project car, I'd like to pick up a TR and see what other powerplant can be retrofitted/balanced with increased hp.) | |||
| Michael C. James (Mjames)
Junior Member Username: Mjames Post Number: 101 Registered: 6-2003 |
This month's Hemmings Motor News recently commented on a Testarossa ('90 red/tan 11K miles, fresh major) up for auction (reserve was set at $75K). The car did not sell, and here was their thoughts: "Ferrari produced 7,200 TRs and, when first introduced, many sold for well over $100,000 over window. Today, they are sinking in price quicker than the Titanic. These big, powerful flat-twelves are just too big to drive in cities and country lanes. Their styling is wearing badly. No real chance that the TR will ever become a true Maranello classic. Added to the calculation is the HUGE cost to properly maintain it. This TR had only 10,826 miles, and the major service was done at 9,500 miles. A $10,000 sound system and Borla exhaust were added. The car presented well, except for a scratched right rear wheel. The market is flooded with TRs; the question is, where are the buyers? Market indicates this reserve ($75K) was set thousands of dollars too high." To summarize: 1. Long production run - no real 'rarity' 2. Big, Wide car 3. FLOODED MARKET 4. Sour Economy 5. Big...no, HUGE SERVICE BILLS - big factor! 6. Lots of sellers with too-high expectations (MANY bought extremely high during late '80s, they want to recoup as much of their losses/maintenance $$$ that they can - IF they can). I don't agree about the author's dig into the TR's styling - everyone else thinks its one of the most innovative automotive designs of the 20th Century, and the high production run (for a Ferrari) proves it. Now, if everyone who bought a TR knew what a 30K service was going to cost them when the bought the car, well....maybe not as many would have been sold. There are quite a few ratty TRs out there with deferred maintenance for sale..... | |||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 402 Registered: 8-2002 |
I recently could have puchased a 87 TR with 21k mint cond other than the usual dash warpage and it had a ding or 2 for $41k The TR to me felt very heavy at the lower to mid rpm range, not as nimble or tossable as my 328, kind of reminded me of a pure heavy muscle car, but where it shined and felt fast was when hitting the upper revs. TRs also are one the most expensive Ferraris for service and repairs for everything, I noticed the dash layout had a lot of idiot lights for trunk opened etc, which will fail over time and be expensive to replace which all of this gives us the result- a lot of neglected cars in need of big $$ now or in the future which scares buyers | |||
| Bruce Warwick (Skyking)
New member Username: Skyking Post Number: 45 Registered: 5-2001 |
Anyone out there know what is happening to testarossa values? They seem to be falling like the stock market! Bruce. |
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