| Author |
Message |
Kds (Kds)
Junior Member
Username: Kds
Post Number: 150
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 11:01 am: | |
Henryk...
I think that there will always be private sales, because people will always believe that they can easily do it themselves, on the mistaken assumption that dealers have an enormous market up and they want that markup for themselves.
Some can pull it off....but most can't, or won't, however.
Add to that the fact that almost every major manufacturer has a used car "certification" program which includes reconditioning and extended warranties and the like and the private market becomes even more interesting....and risky.
|
Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 1163
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 8:52 pm: | |
Rijk: You are very lucky.....most dealers wouldn't do that, IMO. Wouldn't it be nice if we ALL demand that from the dealer? If they did then there wouldn't be any "private sales"......wouldn't you agree? Look at what the dealers are missing out on!.....all those sales!!!!! |
Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Member
Username: Rijk365gtb4
Post Number: 282
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 6:51 pm: | |
Henryk,
I bought my Daytona from WWoC. They did not have any problem to perform a compression and leakdown test. I also negotiated a major service as part of the deal and they gave me 3 months warrantee. I find that pretty classy.
Rijk |
Kds (Kds)
Junior Member
Username: Kds
Post Number: 149
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 5:25 pm: | |
Mr. Doody...
Looks like I'm going to be like you....I am a year away from getting out of bed and saying...."today I am buying my TR".....I have started studying these cars hard.....and it's that far away. IMHO there is nothing wrong with that either, when you are ready to buy, you will know when you see "the one" because you will have taught yourself how to to recognize it.
I think were people get tripped up is when they start to over analyze things to death during the purchase phase, when they should have done this ahead of time. Then they start doing what Henryk is referring to. |
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 1663
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 2:10 pm: | |
if i might inject something, fwiw.....
first, i overdid the analysis on my 355. took me six months. but it was part of the learning process. i wouldn't have been comfortable
second, both of my cars came from dealers, and in both cases there were some issues immediately after sale that were taken care of. it's highly unlikely that a private party would have ponied up in either case.
yes, do a compression test and/or leakdown test as part of the PPI. i wouldn't hesitate to ask a dealer what the numbers were, and if it wasn't done why, and if i were dead serious i'd ask them to do it gratis - the quick test isn't any sort of a financial issue for them to do (unless they know it's likely to be problematic). that said, the whole point of a PPI is kinda to get a disinterested third party involved. so you don't really want a seller to present you the car, and ppi results with comp/leakdown numbers. you want to have those checked independently to make sure they're for real.
finally, in my experiences negotiating with private sellers and dealers, i don't think i've ever treated any of them differently. either they're honest, straightforward folks who know what they're selling or they're not.
my 1.5 pennies.
doody. |
Kds (Kds)
Junior Member
Username: Kds
Post Number: 148
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 1:11 pm: | |
Henryk....
Well.....I seriously hope that you never bought from that dealer again. $500 of goodwill would have went a long way and I certainly would have paid it had it happened with one of my cars. (shameless plug)
I actually think one of the reasons that people "beat up" private vendors is because they can.
As a dealer you can choose if you don't want to do business with someone because you know how "real" buyers "walk and talk". You can tell easily at some point whether or not the prospective purchaser is doing educated due dilligence or is just going to be an ongoing "heat score" once ownership sets in.
It also doesn't happen very often by the way........but private vendors are often unwilling to say "listen Mr. XXX this is a 10 year old used car with 45K going for $XX and the new ones are $XX....you can buy mine or go to this dealer over there and buy a new one if you don't want a car with a rock chip." Private vendors usually don't have the negotiating experience to know when to say enough is enough and move on. I also think that people believe it can be rude to do so when in fact it is not.
There comes a time when you have to inject a little reality into the dream.
As for lawyers and lawsuits, I agree with you, it's a hassle. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 1161
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 12:54 pm: | |
Kds: "paralysis by analysis"......I like that!
When I see a used Ferrari at a dealer's place, they are ALWAYS marked "AS IS - NO WARRANTY".....and they mean it. Years ago I bought a used Ferrari from a reputable dealer.....drove off the lot, and within 20 miles, a shock collapsed......dealer fixed it.....cost me $500.
We seem to trust the dealer quite a bit. Yes, we can always sue them.......but SUCH a hassle, wouldn't you agree, for something other than a blown engine?
While I see nothing wrong in buying from a dealer (I bought my last 4 Ferraris from dealers), it seems that the disparity between what we demand of the dealer compared to the individual private seller is so great, that people trying to buy a car never end up with one. They can go to the dealer, but don't, because "they charge too much".....so they not only try to "steal" from a private seller, but the car must be "perfect". I will buy from a dealer, because I don't want to search the country for a year or more.......WELL worth the few grand more. Searching the country, and spending a year, trying to save 4-5 grand, is silly......especially when I see buyers doing this on a $35K car!!!!!!!
Nice to see you,as a dealer, doing compression tests.
|
Kds (Kds)
Junior Member
Username: Kds
Post Number: 146
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 12:25 pm: | |
Henryk.....
I see prospective buyers who get stuck in what I call the "paralysis by analysis" mode all the time. Many never buy at all. It's sad actually.....these are usually the people with a clipboard, numerous spreadsheets and the latest copy of "Lemon Aid" and "Consumer Reports" sitting on their back seat of their trade in when looking at a used high end car on the lot.
Due diligence is important.....don't get me wrong.....but if you buy privately you're usually SOL once you've paid for the car, whereas you can usually extract some sort of monetary compensation from a large franchised or reputable private business if you were intentionally or accidentally wronged.
I think the dealer/private vendor comparison you make is a result of the simple reality that if you buy privately it's "caveat emptor" and if you buy from a franchised and/or licensed dealer it's "I'm calling my lawyer".
It's hard to understand I think for those who are not in the business as well, I, like those others here who sell cars for a living, have probably bought millions of dollars worth of Ferrari's and Porsche's sight unseen on merely a phone call and a trust factor that the private one time purchaser will never be able to develop.
On a side note...to answer your question posed in the thread title, I do compression tests on all the "out of warranty" inventory that I buy if I can get physical possession of the car beforehand.
One 911 engine rebuild can cost the equivalent of 150 compression tests.....it's cheap insurance to do one.
|
Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 1160
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 12:08 pm: | |
I know that a PPI is important, especially when most everyone looking for a car is told to get a compression and leak-down test performed, however.......
In all my years of dealing with Ferrari dealers, I have YET to see them advertise a used Ferrari with compression, and leak/down readings?
Martin: DO all your used cars carry compression, etc., results posted on the window? If not then why?
It seems that when we buy from a dealer, we are "afraid?" to ask for these numbers......the dealer would probably state they aren't necessary.
But when we buy from each other......WOW......the poor seller has to PROVE that the car is almost perfect!
I have seen posts of a number of buyers looking for a 3X8, TR, etc., only to find that 6 months later they still haven't bought a car. They seem to find so many "little" things wrong with the car, thus they try to justify offering some very low price, and hence, no sale. While some reasons are justified, others seem to be the result of super critical advice given to the buyer. Are we becoming just too fussy?
I, in NO way, am suggesting that we not perform a proper inspection of the car....it just seems that we ask SO much more of the seller, then we would of the dealer.....SO much that it appears we kill the deal.
These are just my thoughts. |
|