| Author | Message | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 195 Registered: 9-2001 |
I think ferrari will probably be okay -- i mean some models wil continue to get hurt like the 456 (and 460) but the limited or "classic's" will always be there. I think they just need to start winning some races and their sales will continue. THe new entrants to the market are different -- i mean I just got pithed the 2004 lotus elise as being a "cheap supercar for the road at only 40 something". Eventually things will settle down but if you look at the car as an investment, it's probably a bad one unless there is pedigree to go with it. The supply of cars is easy to increase and (just look at the enzo from 349 to 399, nearly 15% bump)so the real question is demand. And the US dealers have screwed themselves by selling their future year sales with 0% financing and royally mucked up the used car market. Regardless, ferrari is different from the saleen's, cayenne's, maybachs, whatever else you want to throw in there. THey have the best hotwheels marketing there is. ;) ---- hey mike, in the us actually i think it's lockheed martin which makes a variety of devices for "red light running" -- that is, people who are running red lights, usually because they're halfway in the intersection while the lightis green, it goes yellow, they wait for the ast car and they have to move. Anyway, the thing that is most interesting is that they were lowering the yellow-light time from 4 seconds to 3 seconds in those intersections. Timing between two points is only interesting in a few cases - who knows what roads you take. But damn in the netherlands they have so many of the photo radar things it is rediculous, especially den haag. | ||
| Dean (Deanger)
Junior Member Username: Deanger Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2003 |
Correct me if I'm wrong -- but isn't the high end market always cyclical? | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 248 Registered: 3-2002 |
maybe supercar sales are in trouble due to so many regular cars that are really super ie. m3,z,z06, etc are all where the exotics were not so long ago. not such a bad situation for enthusiasts. too bad for profiteers | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
Junior Member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 71 Registered: 5-2003 |
Just a sign of the times. These vehicles take years to come to the point of sale, unfortunately for some they missed the boat. Silly money is not as prevalent as it once was, but who with a 401K or any other portfolio does not know that. | ||
| mike550 (Mikeg)
New member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2003 |
Richard -- This may be the 'last great harrah' for high powered cars. The Brits are seriously investigating the use of GPS-based speed regulators. i.e. You physically CANNOT go faster than the speed limit, because your car has a map of all roads, their speed limits and via GPS knows your location then sets the throttle max appropriately. -- That is a scary concept which I dont think would ever work. Too much technology involved to have throttle control. Every car would have to have a throttle control? Think of the costs and maintenance not too mention lawsuits. Needed to get to the hospital fast - but couldn't. Needed to accelerate to avoid an accident, etc. However, what about a less evasive technology (e.g. no throttle involvement) whereby each car must have a gps locater (like most GSM phones do - very, very cheap) and you are automatically given a ticket when you are timed between points which when calculated into speed would have meant you speed. This would be much easier to implement vs throttle control. We are seeing many more automated tickets - e.g. automatic radar based speeding tickets all over the place in Europe. Running the light photo tickets in the U.s. Probably just a matter of time. Years away - but very scary. I didn't buy a Ferrari to go 55 mph at all times. And please you preachers out there - no notes about not speeding / save it for the track etc. As bad as it sounds - sometimes I speed. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1264 Registered: 10-2001 |
Will instead of a CGT or S7 get an F40 GTE ! | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1263 Registered: 10-2001 |
Its a buyer's market. Great stuff ! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3028 Registered: 2-2001 |
Cool,maybe I can get a deep discount & 0 % financing on a Saleen S7 or Porsche Carrera GT  If the US starts doing that stupid UK GPS thing I'll have to buy a politician in Argentina so I can get a few Ferrari down there LOL | ||
| Jay P. Ross (Eilig)
Member Username: Eilig Post Number: 254 Registered: 8-2001 |
Competition is a healthy thing. If this market segment becomes saturated, it will only push the current leaders to bring MORE to the table, and then eventually the weaker players will shake out of the market. I'd still rather see the competition in the segment than NOT see it. Long-term, it only means that we'll end up getting more for our money! | ||
| Andrew S. (Andrew911)
New member Username: Andrew911 Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2003 |
I agree with David R. and many of the other comments in this thread. Although David- I would adjust for the first few months of SL55 or any brand new model where people will pay quite a premium to "be the first on the block", or pay an effective dealer markup to not have to wait 12+ months for a car. That said, even adjusting for a normal overpricing then "regular" pricing for a given hot model just coming out, I would agree that this is definitely becoming a crowded segment. As far as the HP wars, I think companies have enough and should now concentrate on more fuel efficient and lower emission cars- I am by no means an environmentalist, but just thinking of the crazyness of speed available. I remember being wowed by the Net HP rating of 485 for the 550 marinello (net as opposed to Gross HP ratings, like many of the muscle cars of the 1960's)- actually that still impresses me, but now a Bugatti with 1,001HP? An SL55 AMG that accelerates faster in the 1/4 mile than an F1 360 modena? Crazy stuff!! The only "muscle car" from the 1960's that could possibly compete in the terms of acceleration with some of the "fast" or "quick" cars of today might be the hemi (rated at 425 gross hp, but probably close to that in Net HP due to possible under-rating at the time by Chrysler). There is still no comparison for a Ferrari and the experience of driving a Ferrari in my opinion, no matter how much HP these cars are getting. Outright HP isn't everything. | ||
| Richard Ward (Lomotpk)
Junior Member Username: Lomotpk Post Number: 95 Registered: 5-2003 |
This may be the 'last great harrah' for high powered cars. The Brits are seriously investigating the use of GPS-based speed regulators. i.e. You physically CANNOT go faster than the speed limit, because your car has a map of all roads, their speed limits and via GPS knows your location then sets the throttle max appropriately. I am sure the thing can be got around, but I'm also sure that speeding penalties would increase dramatically to compensate. i.e. not only were your speeding but you must have circumvented the system to do it! In this type of climate I think it takes some of the fun out of buying a 400,500,600+ HP car. Combine that with 'the great supercar shake-out of 05-09' you may end up with manufactures that feel burned by the segment as well. Just a thought. Lomotpk | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 787 Registered: 10-2001 |
The trick will be when large companies like Ford, Toyota, and VW keep selling new $150,000 exotics even if they sell each unit for a loss. Honda did this with the NSX. They proved that it just helped sell more regular production cars to the masses, when you had an exotic to wave the brand name around. The Big companies with halo cars could turn this market segment upside down and still be viable. | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 245 Registered: 3-2003 |
I agree with the article. There is going to be a significantly increased supply. Bentley GT, Gallardo, Ford GT, SL55, GT2, P Turbo Convertible, Ferrari-several, Maserati and on and on. I think the best strategy is to wait about a year after all these cars hit the market and there will be deals. look at SL55 prices today vs. 6 months ago etc. | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Junior Member Username: Kds Post Number: 165 Registered: 5-2003 |
Well....deflation in the high end market place is definitely occuring. This cannot be changed. Here, we can get a $155K CDN Cayenne Turbo 4 months and 5km later for $110K CDN. The dealers also have piles of "S" models that are parked off location as well. Inventories are at record highs I think, at MB and BMW as well. I've seen and heard of stores carrying 65% "more" inventory on their floorplans than 18 months ago. Suddenly....MB is in the low rate leasing game and their are $5K+ rebates on current model year stock. It's just one example....Jaguar has done it as well as BMW for years. The ultra high end is no different really. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2547 Registered: 10-2002 |
IMHO this segment of the market is soon going to resemble the wreck of the Edmound Fitsgerald... It alread is beginning P sales X Cayanne are off 14% YTD, Maser's are bieng sold at 20K off list. | ||
| Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Member Username: Rickyn_f355 Post Number: 457 Registered: 8-2002 |
i disagree with the article...inelastic demand and finite supply | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Junior Member Username: Willh Post Number: 220 Registered: 3-2003 |
For those who don't take the Journal, a short article in today's edition, "Car Sales Get Chilly at Altitude of $150,000," might be of interest. The article's theme is something discussed here, that the $150k+ portion of the market may be about to see many more offerings than buyers. The only numbers cited are year to date US Maybach and RR sales. The article also quotes GM and Ford execs predicting trouble ahead for this market segment. Interesting fact, at least to me: US Ferrari sales YTD up from 738 to 818 year over year. |