| Author | Message | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1056 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm with Mark, I've seen the north side of 140 occationally, and if done in a sane and responsible mannar, is perfectly fine on public roads. Just not near my house, ok guys? Nothing is ever 100%, you can die just as easially at 40mph in a Camry as 140 in an F-car. Best! Ben. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1011 Registered: 4-2003 |
My grandmother gets scared if I parallel park too quickly. I could dent a fender! Unless you know DL to be a reckless driver or know those roads to be entirely unsuitable don't be so judgemental. | ||
| Morrie (Morrie)
New member Username: Morrie Post Number: 20 Registered: 9-2003 |
Quoting: >>I have had passengers nearly have accidents in the passenger seats of my cars. One guy, Bud who parks his boat next to mine, pestered me for hours to take him for a ride in my Maranello. He said tht he aspired to have one. So I complied. It was later that night when we got outside of Marina del Rey into the Ballona Wetlands. I touched 140 or so on Culver Bl. Then went behind LAX onto Pershing and touched 150 there. Then onto the 105 to the 405 which has a 1/4 mile sweeper, banked perfectly with bright yellow lights inside. I call the tunnel, "Monaco" At 130 or so, trust me, time and space seem to >collide! At the exit of the tunnel, he screams out, "Please please please...I have kids. I beg you" I was shocked. I believe there was an accident right there in the tunnel!<< I hope I'm not the only person on this board who is disturbed by this message. I really feel for that poor man, who fully recognized the danger that he was in. No matter how good you are, or think you are, public roads are no place for that kind of speed. One unsuspecting, innocent driver changing lanes a quarter mile ahead, or a puddle of spilled diesel, is all it takes for a tragedy. I've been above 150 many times on the track, but wouldn't dream of it in the uncontrolled environment of a public road. It scares the Hell out of me to think that might be happening when I'm out there. | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 352 Registered: 6-2003 |
My insurance policy covers for drivers school but not racing, so the track events that I can participate in and expect coverage are those that call themselves drivers school. I think this is standard. My neighbor recovered damages for his wrecked Viper on the basis it was driver's school. I am not aware of any cases that construe this language, but I imagine some exist. | ||
| Robin Overcash (Robin)
Member Username: Robin Post Number: 264 Registered: 1-2003 |
Dang.. Does that mean I could have sued the instructor who wrecked my car last year?  -R | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3290 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks everybody, lets hope it doesnt happen to us. Ben, Jeff Gordon is very much alive, you must be thinking of Dale Earnhardt, good point otherwise | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 935 Registered: 4-2003 |
This is slightly off topic so I will only post a link. It's one of the more disturbing stories of a street racing death that I have read recently. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1035 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hugh- nearly did get flagged, he won't do it again. No e-mail, [email protected] buddy! Best! Ben. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1527 Registered: 1-2002 |
hey, ben, you're lucky you didn't get a black flag for that... all hands INSIDE the car while on track, mister... did you get my email? | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1034 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hugh- class aciton against everyone who's sued track-day/race drivers? Sue for emotional damages from not being able to give rides? ;) Hey, anything's possible. Check my profile for a pic of me giving someone a ride (they are waving, not me!) I will continue to do so. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1524 Registered: 1-2002 |
OKay, no more passenger seat in my car. who can i sue for causing me to have to re-cornerweight and align my car b/c of this letigious nonsense? | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1031 Registered: 6-2002 |
John- I am not a lawyer, nor am I particilarily gifted in oratory, so my responce will pale in comparison to yours. I would however ask the defendant and jury if they have heard of Jeff Gordon. I would then ask if they knew how he died. I would THEN ask if they knew racing was dangerous even in the hands of 'professionals', and that you could die doing it. I would rest my case. Best! Ben. PS: I know you're trying to just make the case you see that could be made. But come people, we are not all children after all. When you talk responsability, you must also consider the responsability and actions of the passanger. They went in full well knowing they could die, and chose of their own accord, to continue. | ||
| John Liu (Jyl)
New member Username: Jyl Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2003 |
If someone is injured while riding in your car on public streets, you can look to the issuer of your auto insurance policy for a defense and indemnification up to policy limits. If the same occurs on a racetrack, can you expect similar defense and indemnification? I haven't checked my policy (or anyone else's) on this issue, but I wouldn't automatically assume the answer is "yes". Same goes for an unmbrella or "excess" liability policy - do not assume you are covered for racetrack accidents unless you (or preferably your lawyer) have checked the policy. That, to me, could be the big difference between having a passenger on a racetrack and on a public street. If your passenger is injured on the racetrack - whether due to your error or not - you might end up paying for your legal defense at $200/hour or thereabouts, which most of us cannot afford. If you have no attorney to represent you, your carefully thought-out waiver and release form is not likely to be very helpful. Even if you manage to fund your legal defense, how enforeable is the waiver and release? It is signed by the passenger - not by his heirs (wife, children, etc) who would also have a potential claim against you. You could be alleged to have fraudulently concealed important risks from your passenger before he signed it - normally fraud claims are not easily waived. You may not be able to prove the scrawl on the form is the passenger's signature - perhaps you forged it after the fact. And so on. Basically, while there may be a 95% chance your waiver and release form will protect you, there is a 5% chance it will not, because virtually no legal defense is 100% guaranteed. So you are exposing yourself to risk when you take someone out on a racetrack, and no waiver and release form will eliminate that. Why should you run that risk? What's the benefit to you of taking someone out for a couple of laps? I wouldn't do it. Getting sued is no fun. I used to be a lawyer - still am, I guess, but no longer practice - and on the infrequent occasions when I had individual clients as defendants I was always struck by how stressful the whole experience was for them. One of my friends was sued for malpractice not all that long ago - the plaintiff was a complete fruitcake, an out and out fraud, a "serial litigant" as they say - but the case went all the way to the jury and although it ended up in a defense verdict my friend went through hell for years to get there. Not an experience I want to have. And, frankly, if you did take someone out on the racetrack and injure them, would the average juror be on your side? The racetrack is a dangerous place, drifting your Ferrari through a 100 mph turn is a dangerous thing to do, and taking a passenger out means exposing them to those dangers. Are you qualified to do that? Do you have extensive racing experience, competition training and license, full cage / harnesses / fire suppression / fuel cell / other safety equipment, and all the other things that real race drivers have? No? Then why do you think you are qualified to take someone's precious husband, father, son, etc out into such a dangerous environment, where you stupidly balled up your rich-boy show-off Ferrari and turned said husband/father/son into a corpse, vegetable, or cripple? Okay, I'm not actually trying to attack anyone here, but you see the kind of argument that you might be on the receiving end of. Yeah, you'll get lots of sympathy here on the Ferrari forum. In front of 12 jurors who've never owned anything faster than a Taurus and think that racing cars is for crazy people, you might not look that sympathetic. | ||
| Darryl - TR&328 (Tr328)
Junior Member Username: Tr328 Post Number: 119 Registered: 6-2003 |
Forget the track, you can get sued for giving someone a ride on the streets. I just sat on a trial and the plaintiff (passenger) was awarded $23,400 for sueing the driver for an accident. | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 331 Registered: 6-2003 |
Davem, releases are 'contracts' and not enforceable against minors, but the parents can be held to waive their damages resulting from injury to children (like surgery and medical costs, rehab, wheelchair costs, etc.), which are typically the parents' responsibility. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1027 Registered: 6-2002 |
Earnest Hemmingway understood the dangers of motor racing. This is a RACE TRACK, not a petting zoo! Death and injury HAPPEN here. It is a simple fact. Anyone who is under the impression that pointing a car at a wall at 180mph, whilest at the limits of tyre adhesion, is "perfectly safe" is in the wrong. Every time you get in a car, any car, but certinly one at the track, YOU COULD DIE. Peroid. Best! Ben. | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 330 Registered: 6-2003 |
Will, I think what it boils down to is this: Should I have to pay for my own negligence, via insurance, or should the innocent victim of my negligence pay for it with their futures? I carry loads of insurance, pay for it, and rest at night knowing that anybody will be covered if I screw up tomorrow. Its called spreading the risk. Insurance is not mandated. It is a tool that society has come up with to mitigate the impact if you are the unlucky one. I guess if its the other guy, most don't care about the Mom and kids on welfare...better them than me (even if it was my negligence that caused it). (Sorry if it sounds like I am on a soapbox, but I have devoted my life to helping victims and see the impact on a daily basis...I am saddenned that virtually nobody in our society wants to admit negligence of any form, or responsibility for it.) | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6987 Registered: 8-2002 |
DaveM, probably not... A proper/valid/legal waiver would have to be signed by a parent, in my opinion... i mean, what the hell do i know, i'm not an attorney, but that seems to make the most sense... | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Member Username: Tec Post Number: 277 Registered: 2-2002 |
Davem, I believe that in many states waivers of liability by minors are not enforceable. | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Member Username: Davem Post Number: 439 Registered: 1-2002 |
Also would a waiver signed by our younger members that are under 18 hold up?? | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 270 Registered: 3-2003 |
"so why do you want the survivors of an accident or their families to get the sharp stick in the eye?" Jim, I think folks, before they get into a race car, need to understand that you can get hurt racing. It says so on the track waiver, the event waiver, on every piece of safety equipment, on the tire stickers, etc everywhere - and one would hope that common sense would lead to the same conclusion. Before you go to the track, you ought to think about things like life insurance, auto insurance and health insurance, and your family. And you ought to assume that there won't be anyone to sue if you're hurt or killed. "Negligence" can be tough to determine. Let's say I pit toward the end of a 25 minute qualifying session, radioing to my pit crew that I want to put on a fresh set of tires, don't forget we're almost out of time - and in their rush someone forgets to tighten a wheel down, and off it comes in the first corner, wrecking my car. Is this actionable negligence? I don't think so. Racing involves extreme stresses on people and equipment (and, unfortunately, wallets!), and you just have to understand that before you push the start button. Let's say the dope trying to pass me puts 2 wheels off, then jerks his car back on to the track hitting mine broadside so hard that the steering wheel whips, breaking my wrist? Should I be able to sue the track for not providing a wider surface, or the steering wheel designer for making a wheel my wrist could get caught in, or the other driver, etc? Not in my opinion, and when this happened to me, I didn't think about suing anybody. So, maybe I do favor the sharp stick, though I hate to think of it that way. | ||
| Yoshi Ace (Tiger_ace)
Junior Member Username: Tiger_ace Post Number: 233 Registered: 5-2003 |
I don't mind signing a waiver at all. After all, I will be asking for favor to let me ride in their car. It's just sad to think people's moral is binded by just a paper. I bet we will be signing waiver when you get a ride on amusement rides, too. (hope not ! ) What happens to spectators getting injured by a car wreck? Do they already sign a waiver, too? | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 329 Registered: 6-2003 |
CORRECTION-"by the survivors" not "against" | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 328 Registered: 6-2003 |
I wonder if all the pro-Release guys have considered the consequences (to the family) of barring a cause of action against the survivors of a negligent death? We all pay about $250 a day for track time, which is to cover insurance, so why do you want the survivors of an accident or their families to get the sharp stick in the eye? Think about it! (Damn REPUBLICANS/INS CO'S have everybody duped!) | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 791 Registered: 4-2002 |
I do a lot of track events with PCA at Road Atlanta. We do not allow non-students in the cars. Only students and other instructors may ride with instructors. Students cannot ride with other students. And family members who are not students cannot ride at all. | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 326 Registered: 6-2003 |
Will, one such case is Terry Downing, v. United Auto Racing, 570 N.E.2d 828, 211 Ill. App. 3d 877, 156 Ill. Dec. 352 (1991), which involves allegations of gross negligence. William, in addition to passengers, have you considered the risk to spectators and emergency personnel. Usually, spectators to club events have to sign a release coming on to the track grounds, so you shouldn't have to get your own from passengers in that situation. What about track employees? Do they have to sign releases to participate? What if you carelessly put your car into a spin (say hit the throttle going into a turn instead of the brake) and kill a flagman or rescue worker or someone picking debree up from the track? Most states have not addressed the issue head on (excuse the pun). A lawyer like me representing your passenger's widow and children would argue that racing is a dangerous activity, like blasting, and that participants should be held to a higher standard of care than usual drivers, and that drivers have a greater appreciation of it than passengers (who are just casual observers without intimate knowledge of the risks...how many even know what 'drift' is?), and that as a matter of public policy and contract law, a person cannot waive the rights of others (eg., surviving heirs). That is just the beginning of the arguments that you will face. The other thing to remember is that although releases can be enforced, it is usually a matter of public policy, and thus, a state-by-state determination which can be reversed at any time (for instance, by new court personnel). Perhaps the state court that previously decided the issue didn't consider the 'inherently dangerous activity' argument so a new rule is justified. To make your "Awareness of Risk" have more glue, you will need to instruct your passengers on the perils, and perhaps show them some video of all the racing accidents that seem unimaginable to anyone who has not been involved, like cars aeroplaning on dry pavement, etc. My advice is to make sure you are well insured (peril and a personal umbrella policy) and have fun. | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 325 Registered: 6-2003 |
Will, one such case is Terry Downing, v. United Auto Racing, 570 N.E.2d 828, 211 Ill. App. 3d 877, 156 Ill. Dec. 352 (1991), which involves allegations of gross negligence. William, in addition to passengers, have you considered the risk to spectators and emergency personnel. Usually, spectators to club events have to sign a release coming on to the track grounds, so you shouldn't have to get your own from passengers in that situation. What about track employees? Do they have to sign releases to participate? What if you carelessly put your car into a spin (say hit the throttle going into a turn instead of the brake) and kill a flagman or rescue worker or someone picking debree up from the track? Most states have not addressed the issue head on (excuse the pun). A lawyer like me representing your passenger's widow and children would argue that racing is a dangerous activity, like blasting, and that participants should be held to a higher standard of care than usual drivers, and that drivers have a greater appreciation of it than passengers (who are just casual observers without intimate knowledge of the risks...how many even know what 'drift' is?), and that as a matter of public policy and contract law, a person cannot waive the rights of others (eg., surviving heirs). That is just the beginning of the arguments that you will face. The other thing to remember is that although releases can be enforced, it is usually a matter of public policy, and thus, a state-by-state determination which can be reversed at any time (for instance, by new court personnel). To make your "Awareness of Risk" have more glue, you will need to instruct your passengers on the perils, and perhaps show them some video of all the racing accidents that seem unimaginable to anyone who has not been involved, like cars aeroplaning on dry pavement, etc. My advice is to make sure you are well insured (peril and an umbrella policy) and have fun. | ||
| Dr. Ken Lee (Kenster888)
Member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 326 Registered: 4-2003 |
Where do I sign?! I would wait in line after Kenny and DES. I will even provide the pen. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3285 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks ART, can you email me please ? [email protected] | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6962 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hell, i'd sell my soul plus some more tangible body parts, too... | ||
| todd a tiede (Apex)
New member Username: Apex Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2002 |
The track waivers protect the track and it's agents from liability, NOT the drivers... This remains America so you can sue and be sued for anything and everything. As importatn as the verbage on the waiver is the state in which the waiver is employed. Indiana, for example, allows such waivers for negligence as well... Most track waivers assure the driver and his/her passengers recieve a whopping $3000 death bene, Hooooha!!! | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Member Username: Tec Post Number: 276 Registered: 2-2002 |
William, FWIW, the waivers I've signed at the last 10 track events at least purport to cover the drivers. It reads as follows: "Each of the undersigned, for himself, his personal representatives, heirs, next of kin . . . : 1. hereby releases, waives, discharges and covenants not to sue the promoter, participants, racing association, sanctioning organization or any subdivision thereof, track operator, track owner, officials, CAR OWNERS, DRIVERS, PIT CREWS, any person in any restricted area . . . 3. hereby assumes full responsibility for and risk of bodily injury, death or property damage . . . " Each person who enters the track, whether as a spectator or participant, signs the release. Obviously it does not guaranty that you won't be sued or that you won't ultimately be held liable (nothing you have people sign will do that). | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2729 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm not a lawyer but I believe that if you are grossly neglient you are liable for your actions and you can't (release) give someone the right to be grossly neglient. Art? Mario? | ||
| David Seibert (Historics)
New member Username: Historics Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2003 |
There are two cases with which I am familiar which might apply, but as a caveat I am not a lawyer, so am not certain of some details. Both are similar, and involve the death of a racing driver (one Mark Donohue) who had signed all the appropriate waivers. The legal issue asked whether a driver can sign away the rights of his spouse and children, or can they sue for his death? The Donohue case was settled for $20M as I recall (against Goodyear); the other is presently on appeal. If an attorney knows more I'd appreciate hearing it. | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 268 Registered: 3-2003 |
Interesting thread, but just want to renew my question one last time: can anyone point me to a reported decision of a US court in which a track or racing event waiver was not enforced. I understand that gross negligence might render a waiver ineffective. If we've gotten to the point in the US where one can no longer knowingly, intentionally be a damned fool, I think we've lost something important. | ||
| MICHAEL MORETT (Thecarreaper)
New member Username: Thecarreaper Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2003 |
put me in the trunk, front or rear..... put me in behind the seats..... i dont care, i just want to hear the motors wail.... ill sign whatever you want. even if we end up in jail..... ok it was corny but its 4 in the morning. ill trade rides in my 455 4 speed trans am for a chance to SIT in a fcar. these sue happy people need to stay at home and leave the pure enthusiasts alone to share and enjoy the rewards of ownership. .02 for today. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1020 Registered: 6-2002 |
Art- if you don't give me another ride in your 355 sometime, I'm going to sue you*! William actually brings up a pretty good point, however it's all a matter of what kind of risk level you are comfortable with in life. The second you leave your porch in the morning, you are probally doing something that could get you sued. In the same way, if everyone ceased every action that could possibly incur litigation at some point, all if civilization would crumble. My philosophy; Don't do anything criminaly negligent (like trying to belt in a 2-year old, or driving the car drunk) and keep giving rides. Hell, this is all supposed to be FUN, right? Best! Ben. *I'm just kidding about the suit. Probally. Don't tell Art though, I wanna do Highway 1 again, but at 9/10ths next time! | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1380 Registered: 10-2002 |
Art, If you don't mind... can you send me a copy of that form, too? I've been trying to figure out ridealong liability... I think your form may be helpful. Thanks! Byron [email protected] | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 377 Registered: 5-2003 |
...Think about that one. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Advanced Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2688 Registered: 6-2001 |
William; I have these in the can, and I suspect they are better than anything you will come up with. Not because I'm any smarter, but because these have been litigation tested, modified, and changed to reflect the various claims people have made. An example would be that something fails on your car: the passenger can then sue the manufacturer, and they can cross claim against you. There is nothing you can do about that, except put the appropriate language in the release. I can sent you a form, you should then make sure that it complies with the law in the state where you are providing rides (failure to do that will negate the effect of the release). Drop me an me mail, and I'll send you the form. They are in wordperfect 10 format. Don't rely upon the track release, most of them that I've seen are defective. Art | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 171 Registered: 12-2002 |
Will 575, There are many cases where a waiver does not relieve liability. Liability waivers serve a purpose but do not leave a person with unclean hands free of liabilty. It is what it is. No one can hand a person a waiver, have them sign, have them injured, and walk away because the person who signed knew that he accepts everyone elses responsibility. It is not that easy. Responsiblity is just that..responsibility. I sign waivers and understand their purpose. Remember that siging a liability document does not waive rights or responsibilities. | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 639 Registered: 12-2001 |
A liability waiver is a good idea because at the very least it shows an assumption of risk on the part of the potentially injured party. That can be helpful in undermining a personal injury case. | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 267 Registered: 3-2003 |
The entire racing world is based on the enforceability of waivers & disclaimers. Without enforceable waivers, who would operate a track, or a driving school, or a race series? Is there a US case in which a waiver signed by a participant (driver, team member, worker, spectator) in an auto racing event has not been enforced? Incidentally, I used to "instruct" at track events, but no longer do so, for two principal reasons: concern about being hurt, and concern about being sued. Guess I'm contributing to the problem. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 170 Registered: 12-2002 |
William: See what I mean.. "From my experience even personal waivers are merely a speedbump to a blood thirsty lawyer" or "The most redundant words in the english language CRIMINAL ATTRORNEY" For some this may be an understatement, not everyone believes lawyers are the best people in the world. Mario | ||
| Tazio Nuvolari (Nuvolari)
Member Username: Nuvolari Post Number: 312 Registered: 9-2002 |
From my experience even personal waivers are merely a speedbump to a blood thirsty lawyer. More than one has told me that a waiver is worth little more than an extra day in court. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 169 Registered: 12-2002 |
William H: Unfortunately your first year of torts will teach you to see with diferent eyes. Just take it from those who have already completed your course/curriculam...don't put every liability concept taught in law school in a practical scenario. From here on out you will look at contracts/torts/con-law/etc with eyes you never had before...don't let it dictate your every day judgement otherwise it will handicapp you. Respectfully, I think any lawyer including myself will tell you that pointing out issues, rules, analysis, and conclusions during times you interact with people will brand you as a typical lawyer. The more you bring up every day issues such as the liablility issue you pointed out here...the more non lawyer people start thinking too much. ultimately, we all do things every day that have legal issues..good judgement doesn't require a J.D. and I wouldn't whip out the law school student card too often. I don't mean to undermind you post..I think it is good issue and anaylsis for most people. You have brought light to an issue many people don't think about..as you progress through school..it will only get worse. Have fun in law school...you will gain tools and a tool chest that you will always access whether you practice or not. have fun...freshman! Mario | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 119 Registered: 3-2003 |
The most redundant words in the english language CRIMINAL ATTRORNEY how bout being sued by someone who is drunk on your personal jet and trips and falls coming down the stairs. this sucks is right! | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 638 Registered: 12-2001 |
You might also check the insurance that covers your cars on the track to see if it covers 3rd party injury. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 2120 Registered: 12-2002 |
LOL Sunny, yesturday I was a bit scared in those twisties with the SUV's half way in our lane around blind corners! Everyones gotta be scared like that once in a while though! Its fun | ||
| George Pavlisko (Lrpman)
New member Username: Lrpman Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2003 |
FACT: The track waiver covers the TRACK ONLY. If you or a pice of your car hits someone it id YOUR NICKEL. This is from 1st hand experince at Flemington Fairgrounds in New Jersey when a wheel hit a spectator. They sued the track, car owner and driver. The track was fine the owner AND driver got nailed. For what its worth. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 959 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hmmm, good points. Looks like I'll be carrying little waiver slips in my glovebox from now on (Jordan). Hehe. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 2118 Registered: 12-2002 |
DL, Im begging for a ride like that! Lets see if we can break my speed record of 140 Well in all seriousness now, as a person who rides a long at a lot of events, I would have no problem signing a waiver just incase something did happen. Besides, even though I wouldnt sue after an accident because I know and trust everyone I ride with, if it was (god forbid)fatal, who knows what the family members or friends would do in retaliation!? | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 438 Registered: 4-2003 |
DL, it would have been interesting to see your passenger's reaction if you have really driven your beast fast instead of a leisurely cruise, ha! Dale | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1889 Registered: 11-2001 |
ya gotta put plastic on the seat, dude :-) doody. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1507 Registered: 10-2001 |
But does that mean u will get sued on penal or only on civil ? I think its a way to compensate the victims (ie : your insurance company ) and not a faultif no ? | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 442 Registered: 7-2003 |
I have had passengers nearly have accidents in the passenger seats of my cars. One guy, Bud who parks his boat next to mine, pestered me for hours to take him for a ride in my Maranello. He said tht he aspired to have one. So I complied. It was later that night when we got outside of Marina del Rey into the Ballona Wetlands. I touched 140 or so on Culver Bl. Then went behind LAX onto Pershing and touched 150 there. Then onto the 105 to the 405 which has a 1/4 mile sweeper, banked perfectly with bright yellow lights inside. I call the tunnel, "Monaco" At 130 or so, trust me, time and space seem to collide! At the exit of the tunnel, he screams out, "Please please please...I have kids. I beg you" I was shocked. I believe there was an accident right there in the tunnel! DL | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Intermediate Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 1315 Registered: 8-2001 |
Will, I'd sign my soul to the devil to get a ride in your racer.. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3283 Registered: 2-2001 |
Kenny, I didnt say I'd stop giving rides, I only said people will have to sign a waiver before strapping in | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3282 Registered: 2-2001 |
TC, I believe that waiver protects the track owners. I doubt it covers the individual drivers | ||
| Lee Pierce (Leepierce)
Junior Member Username: Leepierce Post Number: 215 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm with Kenny. I'd be more apt to sue for emotional damage at NOT getting a ride. Matter of fact, let me get my lawyer on the phone... | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Member Username: Tec Post Number: 274 Registered: 2-2002 |
Every track event I've ever been to requires that people entering the track sign a waiver of liability prior to entering the track. This waiver releases everyone involved, including participants. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Intermediate Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 1314 Registered: 8-2001 |
I guess I'm lucky that I got out in both of your cars before you decided against rides! Karson, I'm going to sue you if you don't give me a ride in the new Jag. Will, I still haven't been in your racer- you have no option! | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 556 Registered: 3-2001 |
The liability issue is one of the reasons I removed the other seat in my Challenge Car (now, past tense). Secondly...all that weight really throws the balance of the car out of whack. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3281 Registered: 2-2001 |
I was talking to my law professors today about how we in the FCA & FOC like to take people out for a ride on the track in our Ferraris. A real problem exists & there is a real possibility of getting sued if you should have an accident while out on the track. I am going to make up some waivers for "Awareness of Risk" that I will sadly request that all my passengers sign from now on. this suckks |