| Author | Message | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 839 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mfennell70, here you go. There is ample information there, knock your self out. http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/dyno_test.htm | ||
| DONALD GRIESDALE (Griesdale)
Junior Member Username: Griesdale Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2001 |
Coachi, I am a brain surgeon and I can tell you that taking out a brain tumour does not terrify me but replacing cam belts and tensioners on my TR does!! It just depends on what you are trained for! Regards. | ||
| Glenn R Murphy (Glennm27)
New member Username: Glennm27 Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2003 |
WOW, $13.44 for a quart of oil, Shell no less and replace the timing belts that look like they do not need replacing? I have always loved Ferrari's but something tells me that love would fade if I ever became an owner. Posts like this are just another reason I like this gorgeous Corvette I own with well over 400hp. That's incredible. And the only reason a Ferrari costs that much to repair is becasue they feel the Ferrari owner can afford it. That's bull and maybe the Ferrari guy can afford it, so could I, but we shouldn't have to. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1558 Registered: 9-2002 |
Forgot to scan in my repair order, will do that later today. For reference's sake, attached are pictures of my old belts from a just-completed '97 550 Major (mine was finished about a 1/2 week before yours, Jeff). As you can see, they *look* new. --Dan    | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 183 Registered: 7-2001 |
Could you provide some supporting evidence on that? | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jeff - My mail server is down for outbound...will reply with info you requested when it's up again.. Rgds FL | ||
| syd (500syd)
New member Username: 500syd Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2003 |
I recently suffered a cracked radiator and oil cooler, so both had to come out for repair and replacement. While these items were out, my mechanic thoughtfully suggested I replace the cam belts as it was an easy job with the radiator already out. The belts have been 'upgraded' and now have kevlar reinforcement in them, so Ferrari are continually improving the parts. When you get your new belts at the next maintenance interval, you will get them too. These belts have a maintenance life of 5 , not 3, years. The labor/time to do that came to about US$150. Clearly there was extra labor to remove and refit the radiator not in this charge, but I thought it was a fair price. Oh - I bought the belts from the Ferrari dealer over the counter. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 800 Registered: 4-2002 |
Speaking of majors... and not the thread jack... Debated exactly who was going to do the 60k major on the 1985 308GTS QV here. After some debate chose KTR European http://www.ktrmotorsports.com as these are racers who really know their stuff. While i asked for a careful check and some extras be done, the car did take many hours and they gave me a VERY fair deal. Better still, i can see AND feel an improvement. They took the time to explain things afterwards and were top notch. BTW: After my car they has a Ferrari 288 to work on. Saw many new Fcars there for service as well. My point is: Don't get ripped off! Find a great service center that cares more for the car than the bottom line. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 132 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ernie: Thanks. I posted because I wanted peoples' comments and yours are always appreciated. I continue to look around my area for good independents that are comfortable working with the 550 and will treat me right. Advice well-taken. Jeff | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jeff -  | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 838 Registered: 11-2001 |
Jeff Even if you were to work 200 hours a week, that is no reason for getting over charged. As far a the oil goes you are still getting your money taken. Amsoil is a better oil than the Helix, and will run circles around it all day long. Amsoil only charges $69.00 a for a case, that's 12 quarts, of their 10/40w synthetic racing oil. I don't know about you, but I HATE getting ripped off. Just trying to look out for a fellow owner. Also just because you take the car to the dealer doesn't mean you have to use thier oil. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 131 Registered: 9-2001 |
Frank: I understand where you're coming from and I doubt the guy took an hour. But the problem was an intermittent cut-off. The tech said he started at the back of the car, checked out the CD unit and attendant wiring. Then he went into the innards of the harness to check all connections. Then he swapped out the radio, ran some tests on integrity of connections, hoping that it was something simple that he could fix himself. Then he swapped out a radio in another 550 that he had to make sure that that was the problem. I'm sorry that I was unclear in my writing regarding the laugh when they told me the price Ferrari was charging for a replacement. Their laughs were meant to say "Yeah, isn't that just ridiculous: no way we're going to suggest that we do it that way." So they weren't being flippant about it, just showing that they were as amazed as I was at how much Ferrari would want to charge for a second rate Sony product. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 384 Registered: 11-2002 |
Doody - yes replacing them... I'm sorry Doody, but give me a break! There is no way a tech is going to open up a radio. If the radio is on and sound itermittent usually means loose wire on ground or speaker coupler plug. I could figure that out in 15 min. The guy has a $4K bill already....insult to injury... | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1916 Registered: 11-2001 |
guys - take some chill pills. if you want to put shell helixe ultra 5W40 in your maranello, it's stupid expensive. the oil is no longer imported by shell. the dealers get it from europe via FNA apparently. i have never seen it for less than $10 a pop. and for all you guys know, the tech spent an hour searching for a wiring problem to the radio or a wiring problem from the radio or whatever. maybe he took the radio out and opened it up to see if he could find some obvious problem inside the unit (a dead bug, corroded wires, etc. etc.). kaz - what am i 100% right about? that the tensioners should be replaced with the belts? doody. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 380 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jeffrey - What filter was it that cost $198??? Doody is 100% correct on the tensioners... Bart - It's the wiring harness for the alarm. Given an option, I would not support this dealer. The fact the tech "laughed" about the radio is disrespectful and the fact that they appeared to have charged an hour ($95) to even look at the radio! I can tell you that not long ago I pulled up to Shelton without an appointment because I suspected a seal leaking in the clutch. I waited about 10 minutes for them to free a rack. The tech spent about 20 minutes removing panels and checked everything out. He then invinted me to inspect the car with him to show on the rack to show me everything was OK. I left 45 minutes and the service manager thanked me for coming by and said "no charge". So, for them to charge you a c-note to tell you your radio is dead (while you already have a $4k bill) seems to be a poor business practice at best. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 130 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ernie: You're right....and wrong as well. As Tyler mentioned, the retail price for a quart of Shell Helix is 13.95. Now we can argue whether that is ridiculous or not-has anyone priced out the oil they insist on for the Enzo; as I remember, it's about $60/qt. Regarding the hours worked, I think you're right on- they pulled the number out of the hat-hence this post. I wanted to see what others were being charged. As it turns out, from the info that I've received on this board, my major came in towards the low end! So, while I agree that you can consider that I'm being "ripped off" you can also consider that I'm being charged the "going rate." For those of you who have the talent and time to do your own service, I say more power to you. I envy you. But my job requires about 100 hours/week and my leisure time is spent with my wife and two sons who have other passions than my cars. Whenever I've done my own work I've saved a bundle. For those that can't and take it in for service, you're paying for the parts, the labor, a bunch of people's livelihoods, their kids' college educations, their family vacation, the land that the shop is on, the heats, lights, air conditioning, IT....etc., you get my drift? Yes, it's expensive. Yes, one can perceive that you're being "ripped off" or you can say that you�re being being charged a "fair and going rate price" that allows the franchise and their employees to live well. You be the judge and do what you feel most comfortable doing.  | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Intermediate Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 1090 Registered: 12-2001 |
"NO QUART OF OIL COSTS $13.96, NOT ONE!!!" Ernie, Shell Helix does. | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 836 Registered: 11-2001 |
Uh Jeffrey, Hey dude but did you read your print out???? I hate to tell you this but they ripped you off. Take a look at what they charged you for oil. Notice anything funny? I do. NO QUART OF OIL COSTS $13.96, NOT ONE!!! They basicly charge you for the cost of twelve CASES of oil not twelve quarts. It says (1 case) at a price of $13.96. These guys are burning you dude, with your eyes wide open. You can buy a case of Chevron 20/50w oil at Costco for about $18. The other thing is what kind of filter costs $266.00????? Did they put a water purifying reverse osmosis filter in the radiator??? They didn't even put a total on the amount of hours they worked on the car. It looks like they just pull some number out of the sky, and they charged you for it. Come on dude you have got to be smarter than this. I really hope you go back to them and point out what they did. I highly suggest that you ask for some money back. This is a perfect example of what I mean when I say that the dealers rip off the owners. Absolutely shameful. | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 389 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have a 97 550. What is the siren harness? | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1242 Registered: 8-2001 |
Most interesting. I am in the middle of doing a major service on my TR, with engine out. I just recieved the box from Rutlands, of parts needed. Total cost was about $750. The normal 30k mile service costs about $8500 (by a dealer) on a TR.....and this includes just the belts and tensioner bearings, with new fluids, and a valve adjustment. I was able to do ALL the above, AND replace ALL the front seals, water pump bearings, etc., for only $800!!!!!!!!!! It is no wonder that more and more of us are doing the service ourselves. The savings, of only ONE service, allows me to buy a car lift, and all the tools needed.....besides, it is fun. I just can't believe the prices being charged by the dealer. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Intermediate Member Username: Psk Post Number: 1033 Registered: 11-2002 |
Coachi,
I'm sorry but that comment is rubbish IMO. This is why Ferraris break down. The way you drive a car does not affect the belts what so ever ... unless you do NOT drive the car. These belts are just belts and the worst thing that can happen to them is for the car to sit for a very long time and thus the rubber hardens. The second worst thing is for owners to ignore service intervals because they have this misconception that the way you drive a car affects belt ageing  ... very sad! to read this. And the last thing that affects these belts is oil ... Replace at the service intervals and EVEN if you do not drive the car would be my recommendation. Pete PS: Ferrari should make a diesel side valve motor with a gear driven cam for all you owners that think you can stretch the maintenance schedules or think that softly driving a car (or not driving a car) extends the maintenance periods. VERY WRONG. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1529 Registered: 9-2002 |
I agree - the belts on mine looked like they were just out of the shipping crate or whatever - no signs of wear whatsoever. --Dan | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 129 Registered: 9-2001 |
So, I agree....6 years IS a long time and that's why I went ahead and had the major. My point was, with the belts looking like that, and if I drive the car the way I have been for the past 2 years (my ownership period), I don't see a point in having them changed out in 3 years, especially since the recommendation prior to this year was five. I mean, really: yes a belt can suddenly snap but you know, there usually is some sign of wear. For instance, with the 928 serpentine belt, when I had it swapped out after 40K or 7 years, it shows significant wear. A little bit of fraying or perhaps some dry rot, whatever. But both F-belts could of been taken for being essentially new. Again, I'm not trying to pursuade anyone to skimp on maintenance-I think that I take pretty good care of my cars. But I'm simply providing some data, although the "n" is only 1. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1521 Registered: 9-2002 |
My car is a 97 as well, with 14k. I absolutely wanted the belts changed. Why? Because you never know when they'll break, 6 years is pushing it, and, preventative maintenance and peace of mind is well worth the price. Imagine they snap, and you end up needing a new motor or at least a rebuild? Uh, yeah, wouldn't you wish you spent the $5k? --Dan | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 3061 Registered: 9-2001 |
The receipt says the car is a 1997 model. So unless the cam belts have alraedy been changed once, they would now be 6 years old not 3. I would change them in 6 years regardless of miles . | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1516 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jeffrey, My belts looked brand new as well - but the concensus in the shop was that you just can't tell. If they snap, they snap. My service took 26 hours over the course of 1 week, just for reference. Doody: I will make a clear version of my report and post it online along with pictures of the belts as soon as I stop being lazy! --Dan | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 128 Registered: 9-2001 |
Guys: Hope you found this informative. Pino, the car is an FNA car that was originally destined for Canada and was sold there. Since it was FNA, all warrantees are good: hence the free recall. So yes, that�s why the running lights are on. Not a bad thing but I wanted to see if it was a simple fix or work around. FNA still hasn't called the tech back. Doody, I don't know whether they adjusted or replaced the cam tensioners. But my guess would be, after looking at the belts, that the tensioners were fine so they didn't bother. But I'll ask the tech, who is supposed to call me back about the radio. The plugs were changed out when I bought the car so that was only a couple of thousand miles ago. It's been a bad week for cars-two of my P-cars are in the shop to the tune of $2300. For some reason, I don't seem to be getting much sympathy from my wife (�get rid of the damn things!) and trying to take up a collection from my co-workers netted me zilch, but at least the engine mounts were OK. | ||
| Joseph Caretti (Pino)
Junior Member Username: Pino Post Number: 184 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jeff, not to get off the subject too much, but if I'm reading the repair order properly, your car is equipped with Daytime Running Lights? Is your car from Canada or something? Just curious, as I have never heard of an Fcar with DRL's | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 434 Registered: 5-2002 |
I certainly would not have replaced the cam belts yet....It depends on how you drive the car. If you rev it up and keep it running at the top of the RPM range, such as on a track event, etc... yes. If you just drive it leisurely and never really push it. 5 years or 8 before belts if that often. If an independent had done the job, he would have charged less for labor...I am sure that replacing cambelts and tensioners is not brain surgery | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 952 Registered: 2-2002 |
Teachdna: Labor hours are based upon a "book" estimate from a source like Mitchell's. I don't know if there is a book on Ferrari's, but labor is generally based upon a predetermined estimate. This is usually true for dealerships, franchised repair facilities or your local independent garage. Owners expect their techs to beat the book by at least 50%, usually more. Two days would be 16 hours, roughly, which would be about par for an experienced technician. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1908 Registered: 11-2001 |
here's a (tough-to-read, sorry) parts list from another 550 30K, fyi/fwiw.  doody. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1907 Registered: 11-2001 |
many thanks for the info, teachdna. HOURS if i'm reading that correctly, it came to 18.8 hours for the belts and 13.4 hours for everything else? thus far i've seen numbers (authorized and independent) for 550 majors running from 26 hours up to 40 hours. huge and impressive variation. PLUGS it does not look like they replaced your spark plugs - standard 30K item, isn't it? BELTS & TENSIONERS wow - those belts look nearly brand new! of course that doesn't mean they're not ready to split, but i think it's probably data did they replace tensioners or just adjust them? trying to understand what's rational and warranted here. talked to a shop that said the tensioners should just be replaced while you're in there since they're usually what screws up, not the belts themselves. true? rational? waste of money/time? ALARM this is even newer than the campaign to put the grounding wire in? which is from sometime last year, i think. doody. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 127 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well, got her back from Midwestern Autogroup (authorized F-dealer) after 2 days. Some interesting things. 1. Estimate was $3700 total. The final came to 4354 and I�ve attached the sheets so people can compare. Labor was 3155 which came to 33 hours. I don't quite understand that as they only had the car 2 days but maybe they had 2 people working on it. Or maybe they just add 1K to everything because they can. They also did an AC service while they were in there although that wasn't scheduled. 2. There's been another recall on the siren harness. 3. No problem with the engine mounts. The tech said that he had seen some 456�s come in that needed the job done but no 550�s yet. 4. Both belts looked like new. No way I'll get the belts done in 3 years. Apparently, the way that I drive and store the car, there's no danger of those belts failing in 3 years. I'll wait another 5, assuming me and the car are both still around. 5. Radio/cd is dead. Ferrari replacement is $2200: the tech laughed as he told me and I laughed right back with a �no way.� He�s going to send it back to Sony stateside to see what they can do but I expect I�ll be looking for an aftermarket. Any suggestions? I rarely use the damn thing anyway as I prefer to hear the car. 5. Four 360�s in for major work. They were all grey market and all had major, major problems such as needing a new transaxle.    |