| Author | Message | ||
| MICHAEL MORETT (Thecarreaper)
New member Username: Thecarreaper Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2003 |
my.02 i would get the glass/ carb car. i have been window shopping almost a year for a 308 and now ( almost ) have all the chips in place to both own AND work on the cars. i agree that it will be a fun" fix" until you get a Boxer, which i also worship and yearn to own one day. best wishes on your choice!!!! | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 714 Registered: 2-2002 |
Just to get back on topic, I'm sure you're mulling this over, Ken. It's a tough decision. If you're planning on a BB one day, then a move to carburetors would be a good introduction. If I can be of any assistance, please let me know. Barry | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1689 Registered: 12-2001 |
Didn't Morgan West have one recently? | ||
| Chris Murphy (Cjmotorsports)
New member Username: Cjmotorsports Post Number: 41 Registered: 8-2003 |
Barry, Will do my friend and You're right, this was in the 1st shipment to Chinetti & Galthwaite in 76' and 3rd of the 1st 4 into the country through said dealer. Thanks. Chris | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2063 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank, There are rumors as to why the change was made...here are the ones I have heard (none confirmed, btw): 1) Could not produce fiberglass panels fast enough, and maintain required level of finish/quality. 2) Cost Who knows, but certainly seemed a step backwards, since they didn't apply any rust preventative to the steel panels, until 1984. | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 529 Registered: 8-2003 |
Does anybody know why Ferrari changed from fiberglas to steel after only one year of production? When I was first "Ferrari shopping" several years ago,and was alot less informed about the cars,I thought that they were ALL fiberglas. I own,and had owned several Corvettes-fiberglas- (also,currently own an '81 308GTSi) and just figured that a beautiful car,like a Ferrari would have definitely been done in Fiberglas as not to ever rust such a beautiful car. Was a little disappointed when I found out that after '76 they were steel. But,not disappointed enough not to buy one! But it did add one more thing to have to look for when buying one,and to worry about when owning one. With the "non-rusting factor",and the lighter weight issue of Fiberglas, Why did they change? | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 712 Registered: 2-2002 |
Taek-Ho Kwon, Here's another picture of my #19399 taken at the Garden State Ferrari Fall Festival last month. the previous post is last year's picture. These cars are true "sisters" having been built at the same time in early 1976.  That's your GTS QV next to me, Ken. Barry | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 711 Registered: 2-2002 |
Chris, You have a very desirable car offered. Personally, I like the unrestored and driven patina on a Ferrari. I know # 19405 is well-documented and anyone wanting a fine example of one of the first GTBs sold in the US would be proud to own her. In fact, #19405 was in the first shipment of four GTBs imported by Chinetti. Give her a nice home, Chris! Barry | ||
| Chris Murphy (Cjmotorsports)
New member Username: Cjmotorsports Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2003 |
Barry thanks! And you are correct the car was @ Pocono and is a very nice orig drivers car. Let me know if anyone is hot on the car. Taek give me mail and we'll chat off line if you're interested. Chris | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 709 Registered: 2-2002 |
Chris, I think I know #19405. It's a nice unrestored car with honest signs of having been driven and took First Place for "closed" Ferraris at Pocono this year. It's a fine example. Taek-Ho Kwon, this is a nice car for you to consider. Euro fiberglass GTBs here in the US tend to have old conversions done. Your best chance for an unadulterated car is to shop around in Europe. Otherwise, replace the thermal reactor muffler with an ANSA and do something with the air pumps on #19405 and you'll wind up with the same performance. North American version fiberglass GTBs have the Euro cams. If you won't be doing any racing, the wet sump won't be an issue. Barry | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 2229 Registered: 11-2002 |
The Fantasy Junction car was US and sold for under the advertised price of $35k. I think it went under $30k. I almost bought that car. As a matter of fact, that is the car that pushed me to look for an online Ferrari community, and hence found F-Chat.  I'm interested in one but I'm picky, so I want a Euro version. I'd vote for a GRP Dry Sump any day. I think the glass and carb cars are the pick of the bunch. Great cars Barry and Chris! Cheers | ||
| Chris Murphy (Cjmotorsports)
New member Username: Cjmotorsports Post Number: 39 Registered: 8-2003 |
Barry, Beautiful car! This one is #19405 next in line for the US Market. That's awesome, maybe we should have a family reunion sometime. Get in touch whenever you can. Chris. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 708 Registered: 2-2002 |
Chris, My #19399 was the 2nd imported in that first batch in May, 1976. It's nice to have these "sister cars" appearing in the same thread.  Barry | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
New member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2002 |
As recall, last year FML listed the fiberglass 308's as dropping in price. Fantasy Junction had one for a l o n g time. I believe the price was 36k, though it may have been an US spec one. Ken, in another post you expressed that the Boxer's would likely be 100k+ next year. Why do you think so? | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 683 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ken, All other factors being equal, the plastic car should be worth more than your QV. However, make sure you have it straight about the dry vs wet sump. Dry sumps were euro only. Fine if it's euro, but get releases, etc. The dry sumps are worth a premium. They did not have cats in the Us until 78. Dave | ||
| Chris Murphy (Cjmotorsports)
New member Username: Cjmotorsports Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2003 |
I have a 76 308 GTB "Fiberglass" 3rd imported of the 1st batch of 20 built in May of 76 for the US market. Very good original condition w/normal paint checking/hazing. Interior in very good condition as well. Concours Invitee. 99-01. In storage since 02'. 39k Original miles, with records since 76. For those of you interested $42,900 obo.   | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1333 Registered: 5-2001 |
I want both. I have the QV. If my next one isn't a 12, it will be a early GTB. | ||
| john asselta (Cavallo_nero)
New member Username: Cavallo_nero Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2003 |
on my webers, set em and forget em, and enjoy the music. i would gladly trade my 78 euro for a glass dry sump 308...from what i have read, a 250 lb weight savings over steel, 250 lbs weight savings over the us spec and 200 lb weight savings over the GTS. at about 8 hp per 100lbs in a 308, thats about a 56 hp gain in weight savings alone. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2042 Registered: 5-2001 |
While I like FI better for drivability, I never really had any carb issues on my previous 78 308 GTS other than some "starving" in corners on occaision. Most of the "down on power" issues with early 308's seems to be traced to the distributors not properly advancing. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1221 Registered: 10-2001 |
I was under the impression that Webers hold their tune for a long, long time, once you get them right. That's the key. Lots of times the ignition, timing, etc leads people to believe the carbs are out of tune when it's something else and they make all kinds of things worse when they start fiddling. This is from my Weber Lotus friends; I have Strombergs which is another matter. Maybe some of you Weber guys can comment about how long between carb adjustments and rebuilds. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 1105 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ken, I drove a lot of 308s when I was looking for my car. I love the sound of a carbed V8 Ferrari. However, the ease of use and overall reliability of my QV makes it shine. I don't know how to tinker with Webers, and you have to tinker with them all the damn time. Once I get my Tubi on, I will be content. My QV has been trouble free for 2.5 years of weekly driving. I would say that the performance will be about the same. Personally, I would stick with the QV is you are using the car often. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 707 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ken, Yes, please keep us posted. As for me, two years ago at this time, I was looking for and test-driving QVs. Along the way, I drove a few carbed 308s and liked the sound. The last independent dealer I had seen had an 84 and 85 for me to test. They were both very nice, but I mentioned to him that I also liked the carburetted cars. Well, he took me around back to test-drive his own fiberglass which he was considering putting up for sale as he wanted to purchase a 246 GT. The car was in tune and the carburetors well synchronized and the difference between the fiberglass 2V and later carbed 2Vs and QVs was very apparent. I bought my car that day. The fiberglass GTBs were the indeed the most powerful and fastest of the series. I think you would enjoy the car until the right 512 BB comes along. You have an interesting choice to make. Having seen your car and if the fiberglass is in similar condition, whatever your choice, you will end up with a fine car. Barry | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 479 Registered: 2-2002 |
Barry: Thanks for the great post. My QV comes alive at 5,000 rpm and is screaming (as much as a QV can scream) at 6,000 rpm. With that said, I do miss the sound of the webers. I really want a BB512 Boxer, but until I graduate law school that will not be an option. The offer of a trade was interesting since the glass cars are rare and faster. Most of my friends are telling me to keep what I have. I will keep you posted. Ken | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 705 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ken, As Sean mentioned, the 100 1976 North American version fiberglass GTBs were wet sump. The dry sump GTB you mentioned might have been converted to US DOT specifications and retained the dry sump, but has had either the original (and very heavy) thermal reactor muffler placed or perhaps catalytic convertors added. The larger rectangular side markers and US bumpers might have been added in addition. All this would bring the car to North American version HP and performance levels. You can replace the thermal reactor muffler with an ANSA or Tubi or get rid of the catalytic convertors if that's what's on the car now and get it back to the Euro version 255 HP level. A 1976 car is exempt from emissions testing here. The dry sump is preferred over the wet sump. For the kind of driving I do, my wet sump is not a factor. 14" wheels with XWXs mounted are not so bad, really. They were a very high performance tire in 1976 and the fiberglass GTB is just that; a 1976 car with quarter-century old technology. I'm sure you can get 16" wheels and mount more modern tires on the car and realize a bit more improved handling qualities and put the 14" wheels back on for concours events. I agree with Dave as far as the more "raw and visceral" aspects of the carbed GTB. You'll like the induction sounds and you'll get used to the heavier clutch. I would say it's a very fair trade. Remember that the fiberglass car is lighter than the steel GTB and a steel GTB is somewhat lighter than the GTS. I know you're looking for "more power." The 1976 carbed GTB has a nice amount of power, but in the higher RPM range and so does the QV. I find that my car really comes alive in the 4,000-6,000 RPM range and I am very satisfied with that. Barry | ||
| Henry D. Chin (Hanknum)
Junior Member Username: Hanknum Post Number: 230 Registered: 2-2002 |
I agree with Dave on this. If you use your Ferrari as somewhat of a daily driver, then I'd definitely stay with the QV, unless you do a lot of your own maintenance. If you drive it once a week/2 weeks, then I'd opt for the glass. Wheels now seem to be readily available so that shouldn't be an issue. The QV will be easier to live with but it sure would be nice to have a glass GTB. I don't consider resale value too much because I get my cars to drive. Just my $.02 Henry | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2028 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ken, That is an entirely personal decision; but you want opinions? Okay, here's mine: For my style of driving, I would much prefer the more modern conveniences of FI and it's easy starting and warm up. The open top is a major plus to me as well. The GTB glass car is perfect for someone out for a more "raw/viscerial experience" and those Webers will certainly deliver. If you enjoy the track, and willing to live with carbs, then go for it... | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 396 Registered: 2-2003 |
The dry sump cars are Euro cars. Get the seriel # and check the gtbregister (http://www.r-design.net/308/index_e.html) and see what it says. All 100 Glass cars brought over to the US in '76 were wet sump cars. If it truely is a dry sump 308 than it will have more power than your QV (255 vs 235), and hold it's value MUCH better. They are very rare and sought after. A dealer in SF has a wet-sump glass car with 44k miles that they just did a complete MAJOR on and they want $45.5k for it. If all things are truely equal (as you say) I'd trade in a heartbeat, but that's just me. I want a GTB, and the glass car would be my prefered model, but they command a premium that puts them beyond my budget right now. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 477 Registered: 2-2002 |
Which would most people rather have - a fiberglass 308 with a dry sump or a 1985 308QV? Someone is interested in trading their fiberglass 308 with a dry sump for my 308QV. The trade would be an even trade. The cars are almost identical in terms of mileage, condition, service, etc. The 308QV has 16" wheels, better controls (easier clutch, brakes, steering), plus numerous other upgrades. The fiberglass car has a dry sump, is lighter, is a GTB (my QV is a GTS), and is faster. The big downside is that it has 14" wheels. I could buy a set of 16" wheels, but that would cost about $2K. Finally, this is suppose to be a USA car, but it has a dry sump system. Did the USA cars have dry sump systems, or did only the Euro cars have this feature? Thanks. Ken |