| Author | Message | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1229 Registered: 10-2001 |
Even a Europa will beat the Honda on a small track. Like Roy said, they pass them in the turns. | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 352 Registered: 8-2002 |
S2000 is actually 2800 pound curb weight though. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 278 Registered: 3-2002 |
2000lbs and 190 hp for street car is not that great. s2000 is 2500lbs and 240 hp which is also front mid engined behind front axle. z06 is 3000/400. i bring this up because while honda is nice for an inexpensive performance car but is not an fcar and im afraid lotus might be closer to that than what i already have -348. | ||
| Roy (Tpup)
New member Username: Tpup Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2003 |
You can get some additional data at www.track-challenge.com. They have a test of the Exige (177hp version) and a 360. On a large track like Nuerbergring, the 360 is much faster (8.09 vs 8.42). On a small track like Hockenheim the Exige was faster (1.14.8 vs 1.15.1). I don't think the new Federal Elise will take a 360 except on a very small track. It's just too heavy. Get it down 300lbs, or upgrade the suspension, and then it will have a shot. As an owner of an Exige, I'll add a couple of additional points. 1. You can pass in corners in the car. When you can enter/exit corners at a much higher speed it's easy. I have passed going into corners, or timed my exit to pass at the start of a straight. If I'm going 30mph faster than the higher hp car on exit, it would have to be a long straight for the higher hp car to catch up. I do that coming out of turn 12 at Road Atlanta all the time, to Vipers and Vetts... 2. Brakes - The car is very light and has very, very good brakes. In my Viper GTS, I had to hit the brakes at the 300 marker at the end of the back straight. In the Exige, I hit the brakes at the 100 marker. If I enter the back straight (in the Exige) right behing a Viper, he pulls on me down the straight. I catch him by the exit of 10a because of braking. I can then set him up to pass in 12. If I don't time my pass correctly and cannot get by the higher hp car on the front straight, I can always out brake them going into turn 1 and leave them for dead turns 1-7. I have see a few 360s at Road Atlanta and had no problem with them. The only difficult cars in my experiance are well setup and driven Z06s and TTs (other than race cars). Food for thought... Roy ps. My comments on the new car are based on driving it. I felt it was a bit heavy but nice. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1048 Registered: 2-2003 |
Maybe it was an Exige, I'd have to find the vid and view it again. Interesting comparison none the less. Sunny | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 533 Registered: 3-2002 |
Oh, I've got Stradale on the brain... My statements are the same also for the 360 Modena, except that the Elise would only need to be 1380# (which it is not even close) or 245hp to match the Modena power-to-weight. If a Modena loses to an Elise in a straight line, then the Modena driver is an idiot. In the curves, the Elise should have decided advantage over the Modena. But in race conditions, its hard to pass in the curves, so my money is on the Modena. In an autocross, my money is on the Elise. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 532 Registered: 3-2002 |
The 0-60 numbers for the Elise (that I've seen) aren't even close to the 360 CS... nor are the 0-100 numbers. Not even close! Has anyone seen different? And the power to weight ratios would further support this... with only 180hp, the Elise would need to be under 1200# to match the Stradale power-to-weight. The fact that the 360 CS driver couldn't even manage to floor it well speaks a lot about whatever you were watching. The Elise is way too underpowered, even with its lighter weight, to keep up with a 360 CS in a straight line. Where the Elise will have an advantage is in the corners. That lighter weight will be a huge advantage in tighter courses and slaloms. In an autocross, the Elise is almost surely going to beat the Stradale (though based on 360 Modena being faster than Miata, it should be close). On a track, though, straight-line horsepower matters a lot... so, I doubt seriously the Elise will gain enough in the corners to overcome its disadvantage in the straights. Now, you bump the Elise up to about 260HP, so its power-to-weight ratio is at least close to the 360 CS, and then you may have a contest. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1046 Registered: 2-2003 |
Maybe a useless way to compare cars but it was nice to see a Elise from a dead stop pull away from a 360 to take the first corner and the rest was history. The Elise Motorsport that a couple so-cal people rode in that is for sale has pretty much turned said people into aspiring Elise owners. I have no doubt that driven by the same driver, the Elise would be faster unless its a top speed course where the 360 will eventually reel it in like the GT3 was able to do. To each their own  | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 531 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sunny, that is a useless way to compare cars. Drivers make way too much a difference in racing... even if they are "professionals". Hell, even at the highest levels we know there are nontrivial differences in drivers! Anywhere down from F1, the differences just get more pronounced. Same driver in each car... compare times. And then repeat to verify they weren't just learning the track. Anything else is silly. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1044 Registered: 2-2003 |
An Elise did just that in a 5 lap contest. It was with a GT3, a 360, a Skyline, an Evo and one other car. The 360 was slowly loosing distance for all 5 laps and could not catch the Elise or the GT3. The GT3 would get closer and closer on the straights until finally after 5 laps it was able to overtake the Elise. Had it been an Exige or modified power plant, the 360 would have been smoked, not simply beaten. I'll e-mail a friend and find out which video. They were professional drivers for some of the intense corner passing and perfect lines. | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
Junior Member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bill308, the NSX is mid-engined, but I've spoken with several other NSX owners who have driven the Elise and they have indicated that the experience is quite different. The NSX has a very different mission than the Elise and I would very much agree that the Elise is as close to a streetable racecar as any manufacturer is likely to produce. I would definitely consider one if I were looking for a track only car. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1445 Registered: 10-2002 |
Tim G: You have mail. Thanks, B. | ||
| Rick (Bromers)
New member Username: Bromers Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2003 |
There is absolutely NO way a standard Elise will 'smoke' a 360 around a track. An old motorsport 190 might come close. The new Toyota engine really does need winding up with the max power peak well above 6000 rpm. The stock S2000 is nothing compared to a Ferrari and although the weight will be a lot lower in the Elise there is no threat to the power and torque of a 360. The Elise is a great handling car, that does not necessarily mean it can pull the most G's in a corner - it is an easier car for a 'normal' driver to control over the limit and that limit is not above that of a 360. They are a nightmare to get in and out of and leaking roofs are very common. | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
Junior Member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2002 |
>if anyone wants to order an Elise. should be about $38,500. Pity Ferrari is not re:releasing the 246. 200+hp, <2000lbs, $100k. | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Member Username: Tim Post Number: 279 Registered: 3-2002 |
I am one of the owners of Scottsdale Lotus if anyone wants to order an Elise. should be about $38,500. absolutely WILL SMOKE a 360 or 360CS around the track. I have several euro Elise's with V-tec motors in them with 200hp. it will scare the crap out of you. is the my F40 faster in a straight line? of course, is it faster through a corner? not in a million years. I am working on many performance parts already for the elise, supercharger, turbo, blower, brakes, all kinds of lighter parts, etc etc. will I sell any of my Ferrari's? NEVER. but my fellow Ferrari lovers, dont fall into the trap of saying this car is blah blah blah, it will eat your lunch. will you see yourself coming and going? probably see more 360's than the elise. only 2500 coming to the U.S. next year. $1,000. deposit will hold your spot for June-ish deliver. if you want one email me now. I am taking 5 orders per day at a minimum. no bull. mine will be flat black, black wheels, blower, new coil overs, strip everything out of the car that is not needed to make it go or stop, etc. | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 554 Registered: 5-2001 |
Neal, I�ve never driven an S2000 or NSX, and Honda�s only on very rare occasions, so I really can�t make a comparison. Aren�t these all, front engine cars? One might think of an Elise as the closest thing to a real racecar that is allowed on the street. Last year I had the opportunity to sit in an Elise and an Exige at a Lotus event. Maybe sit in is not the correct term, it�s more like strap it on. As to it feeling like a Porsche, again I�ve never driven one but I suspect there is a similar feel to a 9xx series with the exception that the Elise is configured as a mid engine car, not rear engine car. Consider light unassisted, steering effort, excellent brakes, similar shift linkage and clutch, and all major masses centered between the wheels. A sport suspension will be available. The specs read like an SCCA street legal sports racer but with A/C, stereo, and power windows. A trailer certainly wouldn�t be necessary for a stock 190 hp US spec Elise. I wonder what could be done to the Toyota VVTL-i (variable cam timing and lift) to eke out a few more ponies? Maybe a turbo or super charger? Lets see, 300 hp in a 2000 lb car, wouldn't that be nice? | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 553 Registered: 5-2001 |
This link is to a video, taken from an Elise, chasing an F40 on the track. http://www.cpdserver.com/elisetalk/video/elise.wmv Enjoy | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 277 Registered: 3-2002 |
bill, that was a great impression of the car. my wories are that it might seem a little like a honda s2000 or even nsx that are nice but too light feeling and too little torque for me. i would really prefer it to feel more like a porsche in its steering, clutch, shift, brakes, etc. is this the case? as to the radical recommendsations, i would like to avoid trailer. | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 552 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'm a long time early Elan S2 SE owner so I'm a bit biased in my facination of the breed. More information and driving impressions can be found at: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lotus-cars/ The US spec Elise should be under 2000 lbs. The Toyota engine fitted to the Elise features a Lotus designed intake manifold and a remapped ECU. Reportedly, this increases hp from 180 to 190 and increases midrange torque. The following is a post Chris Smith posted on the above board: ************************************** From: "Chris Smith" <zvezdah1@k...> Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:18 pm Subject: Prototype US Elise test drive > HI All, > A bit long, but here's my write up a recent drive of one of the prototype > cars. > Chris > > Well, about half hour ago I was given the OK to release this, so here it is:: In early Sept. on a visit to LCU, while talking with Arnie and Clyde. A car transporter pulled up with two Elises on it. One Aztec Bronze the other Starlight black. Then I noticed something different about these cars as we watched them unload. They had the twin tailpipes exiting from thediffuser.These were US prototype test cars! You guys can't imagine my excitement. > > As the cars were unloaded and gassed up I looked them over quite thoroughly. They were test mules of course so final edition may vary from these. Both cars were loaded with testing, diagnostic electronics. The black car had leather seats, and the bronze had fabric/leather. First thing I had to do was open the boot. Nestled nicely in there was the Yota motor with the "LOTUS PERFORMANCE" on the valve cover as pictured in Road and Track. The twin tailpipes looked really good, very understated but gave it that racer look. The build quality even of this test car was exc. the panels fit well and the seems well-aligned. Climbing into the car as with the 111S is not a real problem once you get the hang of it. We took the top off of course as it's the only way to experience this car!! Climbed in and looked around. I noticed immediately the windows were tighter with the electric units (UK owners of the manual wind windows felt the electric windows would be less prone to rattling)and a very satisfying "thunk" when the door is closed. The dashboard has been redesigned and this was obviously a prototype piece, but I liked the layout of the stereo and the vents, it had a very integrated feel to it. All controls were easily reachable from the driver's seat. I was pleased to see the steering wheel was compact, it appeared to be the same size as a 111S wheel even with airbag, this again was a prototype piece. Key on, the engine comes to life. A nice pleasant exhaust note at low revs. The gearbox felt very tight, with relatively short throws, it took a few times for me to get the 1 to 2 but after that no problems.(mostly my fault as it's been some months since driving a stick). Acceleration was wonderful. Not earthshattering like an Esprit but very quick and steady. The acceleration isn't as quick as my 2 liter caterham was (low 4 sec. car) but I'm quite sure 4.8 is attainable as stated in Road and Track. Of special note, many people were concerned by the flat spot or lump in the 6000 rpm range on the > > Toyota engine, I can tell you quite conclusively, THEIR IS NO FLAT SPOT, NO FLAT SPOT. Acceleration was linear and smooth all the way up to 7000 or so rpm (I didn't want to be too aggressive with this test car). The Lotus engineers did a great job on the ECU. I found the braking to be quite good and felt connected with the road. The car handled bumps, etc, with firmness but no rattling. I could detect no appreciable difference in the suspension of this car and a 111S, ie the quality and firmness of the ride was still there, this is no land yacht! Looking at the car I could see no change in the ride height from the 111S. I think the daily driver and occasional track day participant will be quite happy with the standard suspension. > > On returning to LCU, my ear-to-ear grin certainly told Arnie what I thought of this wonderful car. Spent a good 30 minutes driving the car around, it was a blast. Immediately upon return I took the 120 hp S2 out for comparison. Development of the Elise has been a progressive improvement in build quality and performance. I enjoyed the S1, Spor 190, S2, the 111S I've driven, this prototype Elise is the best one I've driven yet! I'm glad my deposit is already in place, I can't wait!!!! Many people have voiced concern about ruining the car to adapt to the US market, that hasn't happened, this car retains all the magic that is the Elise! Let me tell you guys, this car is worth the wait! This car is going to change perceptions and expectations here in the US of what a sportscar is supposed to be! Destined to be a landmark car. Do I sound excited, you bet I am. BTW> Please note this was a test prototype, some components may differ on the final car that we get. ************************** Based upon what I've learned, including Chris's post, if I had the cash, I'd be on the waiting list too. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 519 Registered: 3-2002 |
> >BUT its going to be awesome in the tuner circles!! > > Wouldn't this have happened already. > The car has been available as a street car outside the US > and in the US as a race car for years. Can't speak to anything outside the US. But inside the US, the street tuners I mention will be uninterested in a non-streetable car; and the SCCA tuner will be uninterested in a car that isn't legal in any of their racing classes (has to be a production street car sold in the US). Even the track-only crowd will be fairly uninterested in it, since if they are going to get a track-only car, they might as well get a true racecar or a shifter kart. So, no, its popularity in tuner circles is contingent upon its release in the US as a street car. | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 990 Registered: 3-2003 |
Thomas I, thanks for the link...I clicked on it and found myself surfing my own site!!! Fame at last. | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 561 Registered: 3-2001 |
My mistake.... It was an Exige that I drove at Watkins Glen, not an Elise. Sorry for the error. | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 166 Registered: 2-2002 |
The Elise Motorsport is a lot of fun at the track. It is faster that most street cars but slower than radical SR3. The torque is limited but the grip and handling are incredible. The brakes also are awesome. I'm not sure if it is even comparable to the street S2... Mine is for sale by the way: http://acw-com.activeserverhosting.com/lem/ ACW | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 386 Registered: 7-2002 |
As you might imagine they are very prolific in the UK but the Toyata motor is new, all the current ones are based on the Rover K series engine whether stock at 118bhp or up to the 190. A recent review (in Autocar i think) slated the Toyota unit as it was all wrong for the car with all the power in the top 1.5k of revs, just about OK for track but not so good on the road. if you want a pure track car buy a Caterham or a Radical. Useful site for info is www.seloc.org, this is a very active owners forum similar to Ferrarichat | ||
| Roy (Tpup)
New member Username: Tpup Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have owned an Elise Sport 190 and currently own an Exige. Both cars are very competitive at Road Atlanta with any street car; I run slightly slower than David Murry driving a 996TT (1:39). The Motorsport Elise is a mid 1:30s car at Road Atlanta. The new Elise is a wonderful car but is heavier than the Elise/Exige/Motorsport car. With the correct suspension/tires it would be a very fast car, even with the stock motor. I have driven one on the street but have not tracked one yet. With the popularity of the car in Europe, I'm sure you will be able to get plenty of brake and suspension upgrades day one... Roy | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
New member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2002 |
>BUT its going to be awesome in the tuner circles!! Wouldn't this have happened already. The car has been available as a street car outside the US and in the US as a race car for years. + the 340R is apparently better on the track. >Personally, I would not get one. Only because they will be even more numerous than the 360's. The Exig� looks nicer. | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 559 Registered: 3-2001 |
I've driven the 'track version' of the Elise on the track. It's imported for track use only. I have to say that it was like driving a cart. Very small. Extremely responsive. Good suspension. NO POWER AT ALL. Sort of took away from the overall experience. I was really left wanting for much more. A good starter track car. Personally, I would not get one. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 592 Registered: 7-2003 |
This is one of f-chat's own. Note that I broke free of the frames, which are on his full site. Knows what he likes & likes what he knows. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 513 Registered: 3-2002 |
Stock, its definitely a great car for the price. Its handling is still second to the 360 according to testers, and its low on horsepower (even adjusting for the light weight)... BUT its going to be awesome in the tuner circles!! Given the street tuners' expertise with the Toyota engines, and the SCCA tuners expertise with Lotus and lightweight Miata suspension tuning, I see some absolutely phenomenal cars being developed during 2005. I expect the Elise to be a major focal point in SCCA Solo2 racing in 2005. And the car is good looking, as a bonus. Come 2006, I'll wager there will be $55K versions of the Elise that will absolutely toast my Stradale on the track. Fortunately, my Stradale will still look better and sound waayyy better. I don't think there's any way to make that Toyota engine sound better than just okay. | ||
| Tyson Hall (Trhall)
Member Username: Trhall Post Number: 444 Registered: 6-2003 |
Here you go Byron [email protected] | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1436 Registered: 10-2002 |
There is a fellow Fchatter here (ACW) that owns a Lotus Elise Motorsport, one of only 7 in the country... I spent some seat time in this car at Buttonwillow. Nevermind the excellent driving skills, the car handled amazingly! It was like cutting through hot butter with a scalpel. After that experience, I was convinced I wanted a Lotus Elise as a track car! Not the fastest car out there, but arguably one of the best handling!! With that said...how do I get on this list for the new Elise? | ||
| Crawford White (Crawford)
Junior Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 201 Registered: 3-2003 |
http://roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_id=868&page_number=1 Looks like an absolute blast!! | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 506 Registered: 3-2002 |
Is the R&T review with the US version of the car, or the UK version? | ||
| FABS (Caruso360)
Junior Member Username: Caruso360 Post Number: 74 Registered: 5-2003 |
If your going down that road, I suggest a "Radical" SR3. Pricing is better as well. | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
Junior Member Username: Mattg Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2003 |
believe me i own a lotus. you will be thrilled. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1228 Registered: 10-2001 |
It's a Europa on steroids. | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 213 Registered: 3-2003 |
I drove one, and would have to agree with everything that Road & Track said about the car. The handling and steering will blow your mind. There is no purer driving machine. In the flesh, the car is smaller than you might imagine. They did quote a mistaken quarter mile e.t. though, actually it does it in the mid-thirteens, not 12.0. I plan on getting one in the spring but it will not replace my upcoming Stradale. | ||
| Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member Username: Tgitom Post Number: 198 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 276 Registered: 3-2002 |
has anyone seen road and track review of elise? its everything i could want in a sportscar which is next to nothing - ie.low weight. could i be happy trading the style, cache, torque, etc for a new lotus with insane performance and toyota drive train reliability? |