| Author | Message | ||
| MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Member Username: Kiyoharu Post Number: 363 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hubert, I assume you realise that the Skylines racing in JGTC are not using the straight six engine (RB26DETT) as on the road cars, but instead uses a turbocharged V6 engine from the Cefiro Brougham (VQDETT) or whatever the car's name is in the US market. Same goes for the Supras. They used to have turbocharged 4 cylinder engines from the Lexus RS200/Toyota Altezza, but for the 2003 season they used the Lexus LS430 V8 engine bored out to 5 liters IIRC. As for the lone Ferrari entry, the car they used isn't even a real 360 GT, but a converted road car. Really down on power compared to the local Japan cars and even the heavily-penalized Porsche GT3s. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1054 Registered: 2-2003 |
Feast your eyes on this! I found this pic on Italiaspeed. They prevented you from saving it, so I went through the source and opened the .jpg.  Copy and paste this link into a new browser to open it in full size (2000x1184). http://www.italiaspeed.com/news_2003/frankfurt_report/lamborghini/murcielago_rgt_103.jpg  | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member Username: Aventino Post Number: 133 Registered: 6-2003 |
Watched the prodrive 550 from the early days and they had major unreliability too. I remember they often led the Corvettes but couldn't finish. I think it's maybe a bit harsh to judge the Lambo so early. Speaking of reliability, any truth in the rumours that the 360 box has major unreliability problems in any races longer than a few hours and that's the reason GT-N have given up and gone to an xtrac box. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1042 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks for the pics and the corrections. The cars definitely have a lot of merit and I can't help but consider an R33 for the garage. Mine's Skyline, a modified GT-R34 is here, well worth a peek. http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=293&p=6 The Murci GTR looks incredible and so purposeful in matte black. I can't wait to see how it performs in 2004. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2879 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hugh. Cool stuff. Good eye. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1575 Registered: 1-2002 |
james : seems like he's coming in late behind the wheel of your mkIV. looks like he came in a little hot; unless, droping a wheel is the only way through there. also, to the murcis "defense" monza's usually driven by taking the curbs (hard) so if he was coming off the entry burm, and getting on the gas just then, the rear would be light. btw: the skyline is legal in australia (as it's a limited release rhd only model -- no lhd cars were/are ever made). regards, hubert | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2878 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allan I think you're right esp. as the article seemed to say that the Murcie was street legal and the Nissan wasn't. (At least in Austrailia) | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1417 Registered: 6-2002 |
Sunny, i have a few friends in Florida who are into modifying the Skylines. They can certainly be devestating performers. There is no doubt though, that in order for this car to beat the Murcielago especially in top speed, it was most certainly modified. In stock form they are not that fast. Modifying them is easy as doing a Supra though. James, the Skyline is the new Fast and Furious car. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2877 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hugh Judging from how much road he's got left I think you're right. Scroll down to French touches pics inthis thread, it's interesting to note Mark Donohue cornoring in my MK-IV. http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/271551/277953.html?1062074082 | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1574 Registered: 1-2002 |
james: not too sure (especially from that angle), but judging by where the curbing is, I'd say it's power on oversteer that he's correcting for; weather or not he came in too hot, I couldn't really say (from that angle) since he seems to have enough road left. you? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2876 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hugh Thanks. Good eye re countersteer. You can feel that tail want to come around. I quess that's why they need so much wing. Do you think that's where he wanted to be or that he came in too hot? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1572 Registered: 1-2002 |
james: here you go: the skyline's run in endurance race mostly; i.e., jgtc , fia , 24hrs. of neurburgring, etc. Other makes represented in the jgtc series are : toyota, subaru, ferrari, lambo, mclaren, honda, tommy kara, porsche, etc. jgtc r34 nissan skyline:    jgtc 360:  | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2875 Registered: 10-2002 |
Sunny Thanks very much. Do you have pic's? What type of races does this car race in? Is it a rally car? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1571 Registered: 1-2002 |
sunny: the "race" gtr's run 2wd, only; that includes, fia gt series and jgtc. the same is true of the murci (it's only rwd in race trim). look at how much countersteer is being added in one of the below pics. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1040 Registered: 2-2003 |
"The car that had highest top end was a "Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec R33 " what ever that is. Likely a one off set up to beat everyone. The Murcie finished 2nd beating everything else." A factory tuned varient of the R33 model, not a one off. At 3400lbs, a 2.6L inline 6 twin turbocharged 4-valve engine mated to a 5-speed with a drag coefficient of .35 it will reach 175-180mph with the governor removed (limited to 112mph max in Japan). http://www.jbskyline.net/R33/GTR/Specs/ That wasn't a aftermarket tuned R33 or V-Spec R34. Modified, they are one of the most devastating performance cars ever built. They can produce up to 1000hp on a strengthened block with aftermarket go-fast parts. But how does it handle? (excerpt) At the heart of the Skyline GT-R V-Spec, is the ATTESA-ETS PRO Electronic Torque Split system - making it arguably the most technologically advanced production car in the world today. Conceived for the JTCC to put 600 bhp on the track efficiently, ETS PRO satisfies the purist by giving all the advantages of rear wheel drive until conditions dictate otherwise. A 16-bit microprocessor monitors wheel rotation as well as lateral and longitudinal acceleration 100 times a second (it changes the actual torque to the wheel on the R34 at 1/1000th of a second!). On detecting rear wheelspin and taking into account current driving conditions, it instantly instructs a wet multiplate clutch to direct more torque to the front wheels, regaining traction in a fraction of a second and letting the driver maintain control. The system comes into its own during hard cornering or in slippery conditions, when the front/rear torque split is adjusted to anything between 0:100 to 50:50. An active LSD on the rear axle further aids traction by calculating the optimum torque split between the left and right rear wheels, altering it to anything between diff. locked and free state. Working along with ATTESA-ETS PRO, is the SUPER HICAS rear-wheel steering system. This uses a series of sensors to monitor vehicle motion, rate of turn and the driver's actions on the steering wheel. Complex software then compares this information to computer predictions of the car's ideal turning characteristics, adjusting the angle of the rear wheels to reflect the driver's intentions. The result of all this technology? Neutral steering and unrivalled cornering capabilities. The R35 will be appearing in a year or two. Imagine the GT-R spec on that out of a 3.0L or 3.5L.. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1407 Registered: 6-2002 |
Oh ok, guess im wrong. I thought the 575 was just another Prodrive car. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2874 Registered: 10-2002 |
Alan You're wrong about that. The 575 GTC is a totally different car developed solely by Ferrari. Prodrive had nothing to do with it. The GTC is a factory car the 550 is not. As for the effect it (GTR) will have on the street Murcie that's one reason I like racing it improves the breed. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1405 Registered: 6-2002 |
James, the 575 may have won the first time out, but it was just a reincarnation of the 550's which Prodrive had been campaining for awhile. All i care about is that from this race car, comes a street 2 wheel drive, 635hp lighter Murcielago. The race car can win, lose whatever, ill love the car the same. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2870 Registered: 10-2002 |
Alan It does happen. In F1 it happens all the time and it's happened in sports car racing. The first race The Ford MK-IV entered was Sebring. It won. The second was LeMans. It won that as well. P, Ferrari ,Toyota, many others have won first time out. Sometimes it takes longer. I hope Lambo keeps at it. Competition is good for all of us as it forces improvements that filter down to the cars we all drive. BTW the 575GTC won first time out. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1398 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yes Mitch, when Prodrive went racing with the 550, they just hopped right in, and drove straight to victory lane! Simple as that. Im glad you guys are excited over beating a car that was just barely put together a few months ago by a car that has been racing for years. Maybe try repeating this victory in a street 575 vs a street Murcielago? | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1221 Registered: 4-2002 |
"The lack of speed seen in practice was as a result of an engine problem that is difficult to rectify trackside and, although we changed the engine overnight on Friday, to continue further would simply cause further unnecessary engine damage." Translation: we blew one up, and we expect the new one would also blow up if we pushed the pedal to the metal. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2861 Registered: 10-2002 |
RE:Austrailian mag Motor high speed test run. "As the article described it, the test was a "no-brainer" . They just put the pedal to the metal until they either ran out of puff or air-field. The car with the highest top speed wins. They said almost nothing about the selection criteria, other than their desire to have some Fords and Holdens and a Ferrari that failed to show up. Speeds in km/h HSV GTS Sedan - 260 Masserati Coup Cambiocorsa - 264.9 Holden Monaro CV8 Targa - 271.4 CSV Mondo GT - 280.5 Roaring Forties RF40 - 282.1 Jaguar XJS 6.0 - 283.1 VT Commodore V8 Supercar - 295.1 Lamborghini Murielago - 303.8 Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec R33 - 306.9" | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 983 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ferrari are the Champs....... | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 982 Registered: 10-2002 |
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=7462 MURCI�LAGO R-GT ON TRACK Monday 20th October Racer out at Monza but engine problem calls early halt The Murci�lago R-GT race car debuted at Monza yesterday. The car ran in competitive conditions for the first time in Friday's two 90-minute FIA GT practice sessions, and again in Saturday's 45-minute qualifying session before retiring with engine trouble. "The practice and qualifying sessions have afforded us an excellent opportunity to put the car through its paces ," said Lamborghini's Marketing Manager Manfred Fitzgerald. "The testing programme undertaken over the last three weeks at Vallelunga and A1-Ring circuits has proven the car's handling abilities. At Monza we have had the opportunity to demonstrate the R-GT's reliability as well as improve further on its agility, although the nature of Monza, as a high-speed circuit, has shown that our focus must now be placed on gaining top end speed . "The lack of speed seen in practice was as a result of an engine problem that is difficult to rectify trackside and, although we changed the engine overnight on Friday, to continue further would simply cause further unnecessary engine damage." The Murci�lago R-GT will be raced by customers in FIA GT and ACO-governed series, commencing in 2004. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1396 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ohhh. NICE PORSCHE!!!!! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1567 Registered: 1-2002 |
Although ... unless you've just got to race an italian car, the new 911 GT3 RSR rings in at 279k (euro), and is an established, sorted and proven platform.  | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1566 Registered: 1-2002 |
James: I guess reiter engineering will actually be building the cars, but audi/vw are giving technical and development support (the reiter car is the "factory" entry, and the customer cars will be built off it). The customer cars (sold by reiter) will be supported by audi/vw's and reiters joint customer support progamme (which includes prep, testing and trackside help). The price tag is ~ 590,000 (or equivelent of 350k UK pounds). contact info: http://www.reiter-engineering.com/ | ||
| rob ferretti (Robiferretti)
Member Username: Robiferretti Post Number: 400 Registered: 4-2002 |
i agree james i would like to read about the top speed runs too | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2858 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hugh I agree that it very beautiful except for the oversized wing and I'd like to see the undertray intergrated into the rear but as Alan says it's early on and I bet they'll get that right. I'm sure the huge wing hurts top speed. With more tweaking they'll be able to use less wing and get more speed. Stealth black is a great color for it as are those wheels. Alan The mag is the Austrailian "Motor Magazine" (from a friends email maybe Pete can help us find it) The car that had highest top end was a "Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec R33 " what ever that is. Likely a one off set up to beat everyone. The Murcie finished 2nd beating everything else. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1565 Registered: 1-2002 |
I could definatly do with a smaller wing (or none at all), but the undertray accents, and the color scheme is beautiful; I've never seen the Murci look better, IMO (wonder if you could get a one like that from the factory?). Also, the ride height is much more appealing -- no wheel gap gives the car great presence. I don't think they're running sponsors b/c the cars not being campaigned this season -- this race was meant to establish a baseline. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1383 Registered: 6-2002 |
That wing is even too big for me to like, and i just ordered a SV-R wing for my car. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1382 Registered: 6-2002 |
Im still trying to see the dearth of sponsorship logos on this car also. James what is AUS Motor, and where can i find it. Id like to read that article on the top speed runs. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1564 Registered: 1-2002 |
This is what the street car should look like (flat black and black wheels is a beautiful combo):    That's a gorgeous profile (wouldn't mind getting some seat time -- anyone wanna' start a race team?)  >>The driver's reported excellent handling from the Murcielago R-GT but were hampered by a lack of top end speed on Monza's sweepingly fast straights and curves.<< Wondering where they would have placed w/ less wing? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1381 Registered: 6-2002 |
Well as with any new race car progress can be slow, frustrating, and expensive. The new Lambo R-GT is running well but hampered by a few gremlins at it first race debut. Here are a few articles for your reading pleasure . . . "Eagerly awaited, the Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT racer, first unveiled at last month's Frankfurt Motor Show, hit the track today at Monza in the two free practice sessions available to the FIA GT series runners before qualifying proper takes place tomorrow. By entering the R-GT, Reiter Engineering is also making its return to the Championship, after an absence of nearly two years. The German team, led by Hans Reiter, last took part in the final round of the 2001 season, finishing 5th with Peter Kox and Oliver Gavin. The team is now running the Lamborghini Murci�lago R-GT for the first time, experienced Audi-contracted Sportscar drivers Rinaldo Capello and, five times Le Mans 24 Hour winner, Tom Kristensen at the wheel. Looking every inch a purposeful, aggressive racer, the dark coloured car, devoid of any sponsors, ran a total of 34 laps as test driver Rinaldo Capello got to grips with the car around the high speed Monza track. The driver's reported excellent handling from the Murcielago R-GT but were hampered by a lack of top end speed on Monza's sweepingly fast straights and curves. In the first free practice, Capello managed a best of 1:51.030, 18th fastest, 6.3 seconds away from the fastest time set by the 22 BMS SCuderia Italia Ferrari, while the second, slightly faster session, saw him improve to a 1:50.889, again 18th fastest, 6.505 seconds off the fastest time set by the Force One Chrysler Viper. Manfred Fitzgerald: "The idea behind this programme goes back to a year ago, due to customer demand for a car based on the Murci�lago which could compete in the FIA GT Championship. The company gave thought to this matter, and got the approval to go ahead in late July. We will be racing for the first time seven weeks after starting the development time. This race is part of our development process, and although we don't expect much in terms of results, it is important to see whether the development is in the right direction. We have already identified some problem areas such as the top speed. But the car is reliable and everything is going to plan." Rinaldo Capello: "The car is very new; we only started testing two weeks ago in Vallelunga, when we had some big problems. We finally managed to run nearly 500 km at Zeltweg. The top speed is our main problem, but Monza is a good opportunity to test and develop the car for next year." Tom Kristensen: "Dindo has done the whole testing programme, so he will do qualifying. But it will be difficult to aim for pole - maybe if it's raining. I drove the car for the first time today, and we need more top speed and acceleration. Apart from that, the car is good round the corners. But this is a good opportunity to compare ourselves to the rest of the competition, as it is difficult when running alone. It is certain that the FIA GT is very competitive and strong. We need to work on the car and see for next year." | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1693 Registered: 10-2001 |
Those were the days James! Shame i wasnt born, because i would have loved to see the french highway filled with 250 GTO's and SWB's coming home from Le Mans at 270 kmh !! sigh !! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2857 Registered: 10-2002 |
If they can get it sorted it's a value vrs. a GTC or an Enzo/Maser which I bet will be 1 million +. It's a lot different than the 60ies when you could buy a Cobra at your Ford Dealer for 5 K drive it to the track ,win and drive it home. Or buy a 250GTO for 12K drive it to LeMans, finish 2nd and drive it back to Paris to celibrate. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Intermediate Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 1384 Registered: 8-2001 |
James, 510k I believe. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2856 Registered: 10-2002 |
The size of the wing that all of these cars have to run is pretty wild. The one on the Enzo/Maser race car is as big as the one on the GTR. I wonder if that was part of the prob Lambo was having and if the Enzo/Maser will have the same prob. It's interesting to note as a face saver Ferrari is going to run the Enzo as a "Maser". I hope Lambo continues to develop this car as it will make the street Murcie better and doesn't give up and simply stick a Lambo body on a Speed Eight. It's a little scary with VW owning Lambo/Audi if they buy Ferrari racing is going to become like NASCAR different paint on basically the same car. P has been smart in keeping their customer racers price down. There are very few people who can spend like pro drive and a GTC is 750K. Does anyone know the $ of a GTR? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2854 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Mercie GTR did not even start the race. When they saw how much slower the car was and how down on top speed compared to the 550's which BTW finished 1-2 they folded and went home. Their first engine gave up after a few laps and the one they replaced it with was no faster. They claim they'll be back. | ||
| Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member Username: Tgitom Post Number: 201 Registered: 8-2002 |
The 550/575's are not even backed by Ferrari, just to point that out no factory support. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1688 Registered: 10-2001 |
James ! Same here ! Wish i was in NY now! We could go for a sweet drive !! I miss the drive we had ! It was great! Next time we have to do more than just one meet ! Its just too good Enjoy the GT40 for me | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2852 Registered: 10-2002 |
Doody 1 each: GTC/550. 1-0 550/ Lambo. Hi Andrew! Took the Deusey out yesterday. Going for a ride in the Ford soon. Miss you in the 360 riding along! | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1687 Registered: 10-2001 |
The 550 Maranello just won the race, they did 1/2.Dunno where the GTC's are  . The Lambo didnt race because of top speed problem apparently. http://www.eurosport.fr/home/pages/V3/mobile/L3/S224/sport_Lng3_Spo224_Sto496584_TermID4.shtml | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2851 Registered: 10-2002 |
Doody They're not that was qualifing. In the only race so far the GTC's won. Pete I agree BUT I really think this is simply "Brand" racing by VW. For better or worse the old days are gone. If VW buys Ferrari they will be gone forever. BTW check out the new issuse of AUS Motor. Top speed runs of street legal cars. The Murcie did pretty well but it was beaten by a Nissan. Best | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1964 Registered: 11-2001 |
the more the merrier. competition is a good thing. give them some time. it's not like the 550s were running at the top of their game at the start of their usage. it's interesting that the 550s are trouncing the 575GTCs. doody. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 662 Registered: 10-2002 |
A lone Murcie entry? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Intermediate Member Username: Psk Post Number: 1055 Registered: 11-2002 |
While the Lambo Murcie GTR might be getting a kicking now, I think it is great that they are atleast having a go. I will think much more of the company and their products if they stick at it, and tough it out, as that is the only way to rise to the top ... ie. competing directly. Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2850 Registered: 10-2002 |
It's a factory entry. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 615 Registered: 2-2003 |
How interesting. I did not see who is campaigning this, but the car certainly has a dearth of sponsorship logos on the car. I wonder what factory support is like. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2848 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Murcie GTR has started racing. When the flag drops the bullshi t stops. Check out Tysons post. (Photos and times at Monza) The 550 is 6 seconds a lap faster than the Murcie. At LeMans the Murcie would lose by about three hours/ 400 miles. http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/events-stories/events/2003/fia-races/fia-gt/round-10-monza-race-gallery/index.html |