| Author |
Message |
Lee Pierce (Leepierce)
Junior Member
Username: Leepierce
Post Number: 222
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 12:07 am: | |
Greg and all:
I am 6'4", about 240 lbs, size 13 shoes, and I have a '78 308 GTS. The cabin's a little cramped with the roof on but very workable; well worth the effort. I do have to take my street shoes off; got some Piloti's for Christmas and they work great, but I usually just throw my right shoe in the floorboard and drive in a sock.
I've driven my car about 2 hours straight, and I get out feeling a little "stoved up" we they say in the South. Again, worth the effort. Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you have any other questions of any type. I love the car, had it since January. Always some little problem, but nothing major. Well worth the effort. |
Spasso (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 687
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 4:12 pm: | |
Greg,
I installed drilled aluminum pedals in mine that included brake and clutch pedals that are smaller in size than the original rubber pads. They are the same size as the metal pads beneath the rubbers. Still didn't solve the problem completely hence the sprint car shoes. There is also interference between the brake and clutch and clutch to wheelwell to consider. I purchased mine from www.ultimatepedals.com but you might check one of our site sponsors, Hill Engineering also.
I did find that the pedals in a 308 GT4 are spaced apart farther and I can drive with regular street shoes. |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 4:01 pm: | |
I have size 13 feet! Does anybody know of a pedal retrofit that would alter the pedal spacing? (I'm sure this is probably next to impossible, or I would of heard of it by now......) |
Spasso (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 685
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 8:03 am: | |
An additional note on steering wheels; I have a 328 wheel installed in my '78 and I still need the spacer.
Another thing to consider is shoe size. I cannot put my foot on the gas pedal without hitting the brake unless I take my street shoes off, size 12+. I wear Simpson sprint car shoes instead.
DJ |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 696
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 9:52 pm: | |
Greg,
At 6-3, you will be tight. A steering wheel spacer will probably help you recline enough and still have comfortable reach and provide more knee room as well. 89 328's came with steering wheels that are smaller on the bottom which provide more knee room.
The 308 you are talking about sounds like a car with many stories. If you go the carb route, I would wait and make sure you get a solid car, preferably all original or nearly so.
Dave |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 5:53 pm: | |
Thanks, guys. Again, all good advice. Sleep is challenging these days...... |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 2093
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 1:59 pm: | |
78 GTS? Yup as Spasso said, I had one, great car! I now have a 87 328 GTS. Here are my thoughts:
78 308 GTS
positives:
Carbs sound great at WOT
More "classic" version of 308, both mechanical and cosmetically
reliable, no real issues with maintanence/repairs
Negatives:
Takes a bit more time to warm up from cold
Carb floats can be tricky to get set right, to avoid "flooding or starvation" in cornering
78/79 cars are down on power
No rust proofing...mine had no rust, but worried me everytime I drove in the rain (often in Seattle) :-)
Needs 16" wheels to really extract best handling
87 328 GTS
more power
FI
easy start and running
better climate controls
better handling
rust proofing
Negatives
Not as "classic" a look as the 308 (personal preference, but I like 308 better)
boomy exhaust note (fixed by replacing with Tubi)
Personally, I think a 84-85 308 QV would be the best compromise...but condition is everything to me, and it is harder time find nice 308's these days...nice 328's seem more plentiful.
If the 78/79 carb car fits your budget, and you can find a nice one, there is no reason not to buy one, I thoroughly enjoyed mine. |
JP Lavigne (Jpl)
Junior Member
Username: Jpl
Post Number: 98
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 9:51 am: | |
The point of the rubber wasn't to show how easy it was to change, it was to show that the wear on the pedals appeared to indicate a higher mileage than shown. If you don't care about what a seller is trying to hide then a fool and his money are soon separated. Particularly with older Ferraris. |
Spasso (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 673
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 9:42 am: | |
Pedal rubber is cheap and easy to change. The rubber on mine looked brand new when I took them off to install drilled pedals.
Don't place too much creedence in rubber items or carpet. Both are easy to change with OEM items.
DJ |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 8:53 am: | |
Thanks Joe and JP. Good eye, JP. I didn't think to estimate mileage from pedal condition!! Your other deductions also made good sense. Got to beat that price down!!!! |
JP Lavigne (Jpl)
Junior Member
Username: Jpl
Post Number: 97
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 8:50 pm: | |
Check paper work, get a PPI, then deduct money based on whether major service/belts were done. Seats are nice, but not original, it even looks like the head rests were done in vynl?
Deduct dollars if tool roll and jack are not included. Deduct for missing ariel switch (very hard to find...I am looking for this piece myself), deduct for door panel issues, deduct for wrong mirrors and shift knob. I doubt very much that the car realy has 20K miles as why would it need new seats and new paint. Based on the pedals, I would say you are over 65K miles. Not that there is anything wrong with a 78 with 65K, as mine is about there, but if the seller is hiding this fact, what else are they hiding. If the PPI and paperwork verifys the mileage, then 23K is not a bad deal....just bothers me that the car has new seat leather and new paint, yet they didn't clean up the engine bay and still have original pedal pads. Don't worry if you don;t find the right one the first time out. Buying the wrong car will put a serious dent in your finacials and will not be much fun.
Just my 2 cents.... |
Joe Brosseau (Joe2)
New member
Username: Joe2
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 7:35 pm: | |
i bought a 79' gts in january and have had nothing but good luck with the car. other then fixing the little things that needed fixing and spending countless hours keeping the car beautiful it has been a awsome driver. no carb issues, no electrical issues. though the car does have a electronic ignition now. and the 17" speedlines really help the car around the corners. drop the airpumps and toss on some testpipes and you have a wonderfull car making all the right sounds. nothing beats the sound of the 4 webers gulping air. and the whine when the V-8 gets into the powerband is addicting. i love not having computers on the car. makes it easy to tune and fix. really for the money you cannot go wrong with a well taken care of 308. good luck. joe |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 5:13 pm: | |
Guys--again, thanks for the free advice. I remember now about how in 1984 rustproofing came into the picture. I drove a 1984 308 QV targa a few years ago. I remember the lack of torque (especially compared to my M3!) and the squeaky top. Regardless, the thing really felt racy. I guess next step is to test a 328, and go from there...
thanks again to all......... |
Santini (Santini)
New member
Username: Santini
Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 4:42 pm: | |
Terrific thread! Lots of good info. here for prospective 308/328 owners...like me for instance. ;) |
Spasso (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 670
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 4:20 pm: | |
Greg, I am 6'2" and just barely make it in mine. Driving with the top on is claustrophobic. The back of my right knee hits the steering wheel when trying to 'Heel and Toe' which is going to be remedied with a steering wheel spacer. I can only straighten my left leg by placing my foot behind the clutch pedal. Not a car I would want to take cross country comfortwise.
A little food for thought.
Would I do it all over? In a heartbeat!
DJ |
Neville Pugh (Nevpugh68)
Junior Member
Username: Nevpugh68
Post Number: 80
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 4:16 pm: | |
The flex you get on a GTS is still a lot less than you get on more common or garden cars, due to the space frame chassis. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 695
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 4:15 pm: | |
Greg,
As far as stiffness goes, GTB's are much stiffer but compared to modern cars even the GTB's aren't especially stiff in absolute terms. Personally, I found the jiggleness of targa top cars very annoying when I had them which is why my last 4 cars have been hardtops, however, I am much more sensitive to the flexing than most people (I don't like the way my P/U flexes either).
The build quality on carb cars is not bad, but later versions made significant improvements. With the QV's, motor life improved because of better materials. Rust proofing began in 84. 16 inch wheels were added in late 83 which are much better. With 328's, the big improvements were in the cooling, electrical and ignition systems as well as many smaller improvements. In my experience, they seem to just plain wear better as well. The 3.2 has considerably more torque. In late 88 the suspension was completely revised resulting in a car that handles better and feels more modern. Talking to dealers, I get the impression, 89's hold up better and even high mileage cars stay real tight. I believe Martin has an 89 in stock that sounds like a real good car.
The 77 GTB I had was a fun car and was my 1st GTB which sold me on them forever. I especially liked the "no silicon, no cats" aspect of the pre '78 cars.
Dave |
Ton Visser (Lion315)
Member
Username: Lion315
Post Number: 746
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 3:59 pm: | |
I would not worry about the bodyflex unless you want to race the car.
Ton |
Dave (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 623
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 3:35 pm: | |
As far as body flex, the GTS has much more flex than a GTB, but under normal street conditions I don't think you could tell.
Yes the 328 has a better build than the 308 as all those little improvements add up.
In 1988 1/2 the 328 suspension was reworked into what would become the 348 suspension.
And then in 89 ABS style brakes added. |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 3:25 pm: | |
Thanks Sean, Dave and Ton. I'll contact Martin in Florida about a PPI. Wow---decisions, decisions..........!!!
PS--Anybody care to comment on build quality inproving throughout the 308/328 build run? (more or less body flex on the GTS model from 77 to 89?) |
Ton Visser (Lion315)
Member
Username: Lion315
Post Number: 745
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 3:19 pm: | |
Greg,
Welcome to Fchat!
I own a 328 and I love every part of it. But I also chose this car because my love affair started here. I could have opted for a newer, more modern car but I went for the love at first sight.
I have never regretted it.
Go for it!
Ton |
Dave (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 622
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 3:12 pm: | |
Greg, at 6'3" you will need a GTS for sure.
I'm 6' and don't see how a taller guy would fit in a GTB.
At any rate as far as carbs go, if they haven't been rebuilt in the last 10 years, then that would be a good place to start.
Once tanked, rebuilt, and then adjusted,
You shouldn't have to play with them for a long time.
They don't just go out of adjustment.
As far as carb vs FI, I love the sound of the carb car much better then a FI car.
But if I were in the market for an injected car,
I would skip ahead to an 88 1/2 328. |
Sean F (Agracer)
Member
Username: Agracer
Post Number: 412
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 2:48 pm: | |
Greg,
The cams changed in '78/'79 on the US cars and the power went down with emissions. In 1980, the severe emissions rules came into play and that made it worse, hence the switch to FI. The Euro cars have 255HP in 1976/77, and I believe ~230 in 1978/79. In 80-82 it dropped to 214 Euro vs 205 US. This comes from "The Original Ferrari V-8" book.
The only way to verify the work would be a PPI with an independent - which you should do regardless even if the dealer is reputable and they offer a 1-yr warranty. I think Martin at 4ferrari.com is near there. Send him and e-mail and ask if he can give you a good PPI shop, or if he knows the dealer. |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 2:47 pm: | |
Greg--do you find the carburators hard to keep adjusted on your carb 308? I often hear warnings about their difficulty. Also, since you own both, can you comment on which car handles better and has superior build construction? Service needs and costs? Also, do you find the newer car more comfortable (relatively speaking, of course! I'm 6'3"!) |
Neville Pugh (Nevpugh68)
Junior Member
Username: Nevpugh68
Post Number: 79
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 2:25 pm: | |
I am, have been, and always will be utterly in love with my 308GTS 1980 euro carb :-) |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 824
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 1:18 pm: | |
Email me if you like. I have a 308 GTS carb and a 308 QV. The carb 308 is just as reliable IMO. |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:39 pm: | |
Oh, one more question---In 1978 the power went down to 205, from 240? I thought that happened in 79-80 when they switched to fuel injection. I thought all the carb cars were 240 (260 for dry-sump?). |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:37 pm: | |
Thanks everybody for your valuable advice. Really helpful. I know the 328 will be the more reliable choice. I guess the classic beauty of the 308 will always be mesmerizing to me!!
Sean, you found the one I'm talking about. It looks very clean, doesn't it? I called over there, and they said they just did a major sevice last week on it. How does one go about verifying that--when the selling party claims they performed service? I guess a 3rd party PPI?
Thanks again everbody!! By the way.. is it just me, or do these older cars seem to look more exotic and desirable than 348-360?.......From the 348 onward, I've always been of the opinion that they look somewhat "Japanese", losing some "exoticness".......... |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 694
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:45 am: | |
Greg,
The carb cars have a coolness about them that the FI cars can't match. HOWEVER, there are downsides. They are rewarding to drive but are a lot more work to drive as well with heavier effort required for all the controls. They are all getting quite old and are generally always going to be works in progress with mostly small stuff needing attention. Many people can do many little fixes themselves but for those who can't tell a wrench for a screwdriver, paying for upkeep can get expensive.
I have had 3 308's including a 77 and 2 328's and this would be my advice...
For longterm collectibility and occasional driving, a carb car is a good bet. Finding a solid car with good history is not an easy task however.
If you love 308's and want to drive a lot, the QV is the best bet, esp. 84-85. They are less troublesome, more durable, easier drivers and a little better performers than the carbs.
328's offer updated looks, better performance and substantially better mechanical design and build quality. They are the clear choice for driving a lot and for those who prefer the updated looks as well.
If you have not already driven examples of each model, I would highly recommend you do.
Dave |
Sean F (Agracer)
Member
Username: Agracer
Post Number: 411
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:34 am: | |
I just bought a '77GTB. I specifically wanted a '77 carbed car because the early cars have better cams and more power than the '78-82 cars (240 vs 205). Also, I liked the looks of the "B" over the S car and I've never been an open top driver.
The early carb'd cars are great and if you find a decent mechanic, or you're a DIY'r you should have no problems with them.
Look for a car with decent miles, but definitly that has some service history.
Count on having to do the water pump and probably clutch and belts unless they've been done in the last few years (verify with records and CALL to the shop that did it).
Also, insist on a PPI. I did my deal on e-bay as well, but I had the seller agree in writing that the deal was off if the car did not pass PPI inspection; specifically a compression test.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438266002&category=6212
this is it? It has non-OEM seats (I'm pretty sure) and it looks like the doors were recovered in a suade like leather which I don't beleive was an option.
Call them, ask them about the records and who did it. Then, call who did the service and verify it was done, and miles. It's easy to disconnect the OD or roll it back. I was able to call the shop that serviced mine and verify the miles were legit. Also, the shop that did my PPI verified it was in fact in great condition.
I'm sure someone from F-chat can look at the car for you.
Good Luck. And don't get into a hurry. If you want a 328, get one. If you want a 308 and plan on driving it a lot, go for the QV. It will be easier for you to deal with unless you like to tinker with stuff. |
Spasso (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 669
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:31 am: | |
Greg,
I have a '78 GTS and at times wish for another 100 HP (who doesn't) and the drivability of an injected car BUT I really like the idea of NOT having any electronics or computers on this car. Everything is mechanical and if it fails I have the knowledge and relatively simple tools to fix it.
A carbureted engine can be recammed and rejetted for more performance whereas an OEM injected car cannot unless you ditch the stock injection and go with an after market EFI and that means $$$$$.
If you are mechanically inclined and want to do your own repairs this would be a good car to do it with. Most services can be done with the engine in the car.
The carbureted cars have great intake noise also!
In retrospect, if I were to chose another I would settle for nothing less than a 308QV.
Feel free to contact me privately (click on my profile) if you have more questions, even dumb ones.
Dave Handa (on this site) used to have one and I am sure he too can offer plenty of insight of this great car.
DJ
|
Marq J Ruben (Qferrari)
Member
Username: Qferrari
Post Number: 497
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:18 am: | |
Sorry, can't offer any advice on your query, but I can offer a 'Welcome to FerrariChat"! |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 2880
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:14 am: | |
I drove a 308 GTBi for 85K miles. A little slow but I enjoyed it very much. Car ran a little hot but vent in hood behind rad fixed that. For the $ these are great cars. |
Greg Giacona (Greg328)
New member
Username: Greg328
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:10 am: | |
Hello everybody, I'm new to FerrariChat. I've been reading it for a long time, but this is my first post.
I've been looking for a 308/328 for a while now, and I'm pretty well-versed on the differences from year-to-year.
I thought I had made up my mind to concentrate on a 328, because of all the obvious reasons--more modern, comfort, driveability, etc... However, for me, the 308 was the car that started my whole love affair with the marque.
Anyway, there is a (seemingly) very nice 1978 GTS on Ebay, and it looks tempting. I know this is the carb version, and I've read many posts regarding carb versus F.I.
Anyone care to comment on their view of the wisdom of purchasing this beautiful, but old, 308?
Thanks in advance... |