| Author | Message | ||
| Gary Brauch (Gary_brauch)
New member Username: Gary_brauch Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2003 |
I've got several friends with late model MBZ, and ALL of them are very dissatisfied - sunroof problems, window lift problems, one even had a gas tank replaced. The motors seem to be bulletproof, but the rest of the car is troublesome. BMW 3 and 5 series appear to be much more reliable, can't speak to the 7. | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
Member Username: Manatee Post Number: 420 Registered: 6-2002 |
What's the chance Maserati of North America will hold test drive comparisons with Lexus/MB/etc around the country? | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 280 Registered: 3-2002 |
i think this might do ok in its market. my neighborhood in long island has s class and 745 in every driveway and this is at least distinctive. quality of new 7 series is terrible from what i understand and mb only slightly better. cant compare to perfect lexus but if maser service treats customers right with loaner, prompt and curteous work they might have chance. | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 404 Registered: 1-2003 |
When I was at Ferrari of Orange County yesterday, they took me to the service garage. There were 2 Quattroports there. One was on the rack. They said the rear end and transmission is the same as on a Maranello. The cars were being readied for J.D. Powers to test or something. Personally I thought their were very nice. The rear seats recline and the 6 CD changer in under the steering wheel. It looked like quality. The price was $89,000. Not bad at all. | ||
| Alex Papas (Alexpapas)
Junior Member Username: Alexpapas Post Number: 97 Registered: 2-2003 |
James and mr Doody. My wife has an 02 Spyder that has had the transmission software upgraded to the 03 specs. It's like night and day. The auto mode is flawless and operates in all traffic conditions without any fuss. Previously first gear used to stutter when the car was cold and it was jerky in the lower gears. Whatever they did worked very well and I assume the the Q is even further refined, but if it's just as good as our Spyder then it's very good indeed. | ||
| Andrew S. (Andrew911)
Junior Member Username: Andrew911 Post Number: 69 Registered: 9-2003 |
Why can't they ever make these cars with a nice 3-spoke thick leather steering wheel WITHOUT the buttons?? At least make the buttons optional so you can exclude them- it would look and feel so much nicer.. not just this car, but all cars! That interior shot is nice- I'm just envisioning a nice steering wheel in there too- any photo editors out there  | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 2001 Registered: 11-2001 |
i assure you that i too am not holding my breath ;-) doody. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2897 Registered: 10-2002 |
Doody What you say is correct but I still doubt true. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1999 Registered: 11-2001 |
james et. al. -- maserati SWEARS up and down, left and right, forward and backward, that the F1 tranny on the QP will be wife-friendly. i have been told that it has been substantially updated and tweaked to get rid of lurching and other oddities. of course the proof is in the pudding, and nobody's actually put this to the test yet, but that's what i was told when i pushed back hard about it. doody. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2895 Registered: 10-2002 |
Brian That's exactly how I use my F1. If we go out to dinner and I have a drink my wife can get us home. As this is my car I always drive it in manual mode. That said this is not a car I use in bumper to bumper traffic in NYC on a daily basis. For those trips I perfer an automatic. I also don't think the F1 will stand up to day in day out use as an automatic nor would you want to experience that lurching every day. Many lux 4 doors are used in this way and I still think it's a huge mistake not to offer a fully automatic box as well as the F1. As Bob said: "Time will tell just who has fell and who's been left behind..." Sonny The P tripronic is a great auto box and can be shifted to give you as much snap as you want. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Intermediate Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 1093 Registered: 4-2003 |
Went to the premiere in SF. Solid car!!   Vincent. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 545 Registered: 3-2002 |
Some BMW autos have a switch for sport mode vs. normal mode... in sport mode you do get a bit more snap... still way closer to normal mode than to a manual or F1... but its something. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1052 Registered: 2-2003 |
If the Quattroporte offered an automatic transmission... which one? I'm the opposite, Jim. I like a little snap to the shift if I'm driving an auto with any power. If you've driven a GM 4L80E with 300+ lbs torque in front of it, then you know what I'm referring to. Minimal delay, lots of snap. Its essentially a truck transmission, I thought? One of the things I didn't like about the ZF 5-speed and 6-speed boxes are the lack of feedback and delay between shifts. The ZF4HP24 provides more of the feedback I desire, silky at lower revs and snaps when you feed it torque. Much improved over the ZF4HP22 which BMW's had some problems over. I don't know what they switched to after. In the "performance sedan" segment where auto's are standard with big engines, its not as fun if you don't get that kick in the back when the loud pedal meets the floor! Maybe if it came with two settings the driver could select, that would be a dream. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 543 Registered: 3-2002 |
> I don't believe any automatically shifted manual will feel as smooth as the 6 speed > auto in my wife's turbo Cayanne. You cannot feel that one shift. I agree the F1 in auto mode can shift well... as long as the user is expecting it to feel like a competent (but not perfect) driver is shifting a manual. I agree that it will not feel seamlessly smooth like an auto... but then, I have a lot of friends that need a big sedan, but want a sportscar, and they have a wife. An F1 can be a great solution... the feel of a manual, but the wife can drive it. I agree the "masses" aren't going to switch from autos to F1's... but the F1 can be a great differentiator for the enthusiasts who have to make compromises... and there are enough of them for Maserati to sell a lot of cars. Personally, as soon as FoD gets one I can test drive, I am going to do a side-by-side comparison against the BMW M5 to replace my M3 which is getting too small. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2892 Registered: 10-2002 |
Adam The Maser coupe goes from 105K Down to 41K that's worse. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2891 Registered: 10-2002 |
Adam I have a Maser coupe with an F1 which also has a auto mode. They told me the same thing. I think they're sniffing glue. Which IMHO is what it's gonna smell like after 40 minutes in bumper to bumper as the clutches fry. I don't believe any automatically shifted manual will feel as smooth as the 6 speed auto in my wife's turbo Cayanne. You cannot feel that one shift. It is seemless as are the auto's in the BMW,MB,Lexus, etc. | ||
| Adam (Fasttalk)
Member Username: Fasttalk Post Number: 325 Registered: 8-2002 |
'02 BMW 745li are selling for $55-60K, (50-55 wholesale) that is a pretty large depreciation for a BMW IMO. | ||
| Adam (Fasttalk)
Member Username: Fasttalk Post Number: 324 Registered: 8-2002 |
James, they told me it has a fully automatic mode (not like the F1) one that actual works well. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2889 Registered: 10-2002 |
I think they will have 2 major problems. 1. Depreciation. Read the small print on the lease for the Maser coupe note value after 4 years 41K. 2. No automatic. Many people who buy these cars want a fully automatic box. IMHO not offering one is a BIG mistake. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Intermediate Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 1051 Registered: 2-2003 |
All the irrational reasons for buying something else other than an MB, a BMW, and a Lexus aside from styling apply to the Quattroporte! They will sell them. As Dave pointed out, its going to be a continuation of trial by fire in improving customer service if they are as bad its implied. I'm biased to the looks of the Quattroporte. The distinctive front nose, long slooping hood, the lithe/muscular fender/lower sill flaring, and the make no mistake purposeful rear 'haunches'. I love the swooping rear pillars but they look like they will make for a sizeable blind spot. I can live with it. Easily. Is it a veneer or a chunk of lacquered wood? It does look out of place and the center console appears monsterous. Look how it ends abruptly into what is some sort of manual gear shift knob. Make this area flow and I think the interior would be much improved. I'm surprised they didn't opt to develop an electronic parking brake which is starting to appear in this class. The storage panel to the left of the steering column under the dash is an interesting use of space. The top part of the instrument cluster looks a little too high in relation to the seating position. Maybe I'm just a midget at 5'8". So far, its the only other sedan on the market I took an instant liking to. They are probably going to suffer a $30-35k total depreciation hit after the first three years if the Maser coupe and spider are any indication. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Intermediate Member Username: Psk Post Number: 1061 Registered: 11-2002 |
Sorry, but I still do not like the looks as much as the squarer Q. I would rather own an Alfa 166 as the Alfa is better looking, and while probably as unreliable, parts will be cheaper and service expectations should mean that the car should be fixed in a single week instead of a month. When did Italians stop designing unique and stylish cars ... and simply starting following the masses  Pete | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 337 Registered: 3-2003 |
Adam & Andrew, thanks. I didn't know there will be two versions of the car. Sport for me, it seems. | ||
| Adam (Fasttalk)
Member Username: Fasttalk Post Number: 313 Registered: 8-2002 |
Will, the car with the trays in the back are the "Executive" Edition, the "Sport" Edition has a lot less wood, does not have all the controls in the back, it has larger rims and is a little more subtle. Adam | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1730 Registered: 10-2001 |
Will , i dont know if its because of the plastic parts that arent that well integrated in the wood or the wood it self but it felt cheap and as you said out of place in this car. I would prefer an aluminium plackage as in the Vanquish or an all leather dash i dont know..maybe wood but certainly not this kind. Even the wood in the BMW 3 series looks better. | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 336 Registered: 3-2003 |
Andrew, did you think the wood looked cheap when you saw it in person? My concern wasn't so much that it looked cheap, but that wood trays in back and the dash wood might be a bit ... pretentious? ... out of place? ... limousine-ish? for this car. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1728 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thanks ELI , As for which blue it is ..i dunno ! There was no Ferrari Maserati person around, the introduction didnt take place at the expected time . I would say ocean blue , looks very good in person ! | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 672 Registered: 4-2002 |
Andrew, your pics are actualy nicer than the one on the maserati website. what color blue is it? | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1727 Registered: 10-2001 |
M4SER QUATTROPORTE @ Magny Cours !! Hope you like them !      | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1997 Registered: 11-2001 |
to each their own. i like the cockpit. remember, they can't put anything on the steering column 'cuz of the tranny paddles, so don't beat them up too much for that. i'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh. so far i'm impressed with the pictures i've seen. my only gripe is no AWD, since it does snow here. it makes it a tough argument against an S500 4MATIC or A8 L. doody. | ||
| Dan 360 (Dan360)
Junior Member Username: Dan360 Post Number: 149 Registered: 2-2003 |
8000! When the complete official production to date of ALL the previous Q-porte models was 2891. Note that in 2003 the BMW 7-series sold 22,006 units. Quattro Porte 4.2 (de Dion) 259 Quattro Porte 4.7 (de Dion) 1 Quattro Porte 4.2 419 Quattro Porte 4.7 110 Quattro Porte 4.9 (Aga Khan) 1 Quattroporte 2 13 Quattroporte 4.3 51 Quattroporte 4.9 2037 From: http://www.maseraticlub.freeserve.co.uk/tipo/production_figures.htm I think similar to the new 612 this is not a car with a really rational comptitor, its for those that can afford it and care to be different. | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 671 Registered: 4-2002 |
They are having a showing in New York next week. anyone going? | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1726 Registered: 10-2001 |
Isnt that Stupid that this car has more gauges than the Scaglietti ? !!!! Ferrari, please make some sense ! | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1725 Registered: 10-2001 |
That wood and that steering wheel look sooooo cheap . I saw the Quattroporte in Blue and its beautiful but its interior is a letdown. | ||
| Adam (Fasttalk)
Member Username: Fasttalk Post Number: 312 Registered: 8-2002 |
Will be $92K list price.      | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 333 Registered: 3-2003 |
Tony, "generic status barge," LOL, great line. Kuzi, hard to judge much about the car's build quality as I did not get to drive it (or be driven in it). I will take a closer look tomorrow when I get back to FoW, and perhaps they will let me take photos. Fit and finish looked fine, but remember this is a show car. Dave, you make an interesting point. I've always received excellent service from FoW, and we have had no problems with our Maserati coupe other than a minor leak (drip) that was quickly repaired. But I am an enthusiast and a Ferrari afficianado with other cars I can drive, and therefore can be very forgiving about shop time. Change any of these attributes and I might be a much more demanding, difficult to please customer. The 4 year warranty overcame the mild reliability concerns I had when we bought the coupe, and I assume Maserati will offer the same warranty for the Q. Of course, having a warranty is little consolation when you have to ferry back and forth to the dealership. I have always assumed that, with the Lexus sedans, what I feel I would give up in styling I would get back in relatively lower cost and the best reliability available. That trade has never seemed worth it to me and, assuming middling reliability for the Q, I wonder if it really will deter others who are in the target market for this car. Have never owned a Lexus - probably a big mistake on my part! And an admittedly biased view from a likely buyer. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 868 Registered: 4-2002 |
FYI: Have heard from reliable inside sources MB is having nightmares with their all-singing, all-dancing car computer systems. Would avoid a new MB like the plague judging from what i have heard. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Adam (Fasttalk)
Member Username: Fasttalk Post Number: 310 Registered: 8-2002 |
deliviery will start mid '04, 600 will be delivered in '04, 1000 in '05, production will stop at 8000 vehicles. AA | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 163 Registered: 10-2002 |
And that means in 2 years it will have depreciated enough for ME to pick one up cheap. It certainly looks different from the generic S-class/lexus thing. I think its cool but it's certainly not the generic status barge most of the people in this price range are looking for. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3111 Registered: 1-2002 |
I think the car is GORGEOUS, but here's the problem I have with it: Maser thinks it's going to compete with Jag, BMW, and Mercedes in the 80K-90K bracket, I think. However, the Ferrari-Maserati dealer network has no clue about the level of customer service expected in that market (with a few exceptions). I.E., providing loaner cars during repairs, getting repairs done in less than a week or 2, the indifference towards making the service part of the ownership experience a delightful one, the absurd cost of parts, etc. And I have seen no indication that FMNA is approaching the ownership experience of these sedans any differently than their current "our way or the highway" thinking. Given the middle of the road reliability already seen with the Maser coupe & convertible, I expect these new sedans to be in the shop a lot...and the 90K sedan customer will NOT put up with the typical BS that Ferrari owners do as a matter of course due to the heritage of Ferrari & the uniqueness of owning one. Now, I have seen this indifference, and I have also seen delightful customer service in the FNA dealer chain...but the former is much more prevalent than the latter. And, given the great strides the other lux sedan makers have made recently in customer service, thanks mainly to the model citizens Lexus & Infiniti, they are gonna clean Maser's clock in the US. All IMHO, of course... | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1996 Registered: 11-2001 |
does anybody know when US deliveries are supposed to start? doody. | ||
| Kuzi (Kzma)
Member Username: Kzma Post Number: 380 Registered: 3-2003 |
will, how did the quality feel to you? up to snuff with bmw?..........i've heard mb has had problems with quality control as of late in their newer models. | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 332 Registered: 3-2003 |
Visited FoW today and saw the Quattroporte in person for the first time. Dark silver show car with a tan interior. Larger than I expected, and I loved the front end treatment, very elegant. Thought the car's lines flow very well, would probably change the rear taillight design if I ran the show. Decent trunk space. more than the coupe of course, but not generous. Inside, loads of luxo features, such as heated cup holders, wood trays for the back seat, separate hvac zones in back, etc. Back seat room was pretty good, I set the driver seat back all the way, then sat behind it - though it's tight, there's a lot more space than in the coupe. If the car is offered for less than $100k, I think Maserati may have a very strong competitor to the S class and 700 class BMW, one I will seriously consider buying. |